This is straight up wrong, and I'm not litigating it. It's better than nothing even if you were right.
I'm not, but here I'm basically agreeing with you. Remember the Iron Earth Rune lasts a week. Just set up a single Iron Earth rune and rush research. If we still don't have Iron Earth rune 2.0 yet, we'll just make another Iron Earth Rune at the end of the week. There's no order where it makes sense to preemptively make 4 Iron Earth 1.0 runes. We should use those clone hours for something else.
 
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I'm not, but here I'm basically agreeing with you? Remember the Iron Earth Rune lasts a week. Just set up a single Iron Earth rune and rush research. If we still don't have Iron Earth rune 2.0 yet, we'll just make another Iron Earth Rune at the end of the week. There's never a point where it makes sense to preemptively make 4 Iron Earth 1.0 runes, is my main objection. Let's use the clone hours for something else.
Hazou can do like 14 Runes per day so 42 runes before we get back to Leaf. I have us crafting 31 Runes, so nowhere near saturation.

I also don't think we have anything particularly productive to do with those saved clone-hours, so I'm not inclined to do this, but if you can suggest something I like I'd consider it.
 
Ask Orochimaru to make more substrate before leaving, as much as we can store.
Is it necessary for him to do this right now, when moving the rift to a random location to avoid being tracked should be his first priority? Orochimaru can multi-thread Shadow Clones in the Seventh Path so that he can simultaneously make substrate and more rift-moving runes, and we can grab substrate from there.
Shape additional blanks on the march, as time permits
  • 10x Force Dome
  • 12x Ninja Radar
  • 4x Iron Earth
  • 2x Icarus
  • 2x Air Leadening
  • 1x TR 140
I would question if we have the time to do this shaping, on the grounds that Tsunade will want us to be booking it to Leaf ASAP. As in, forced march, minimal (if any) rest, Akimichi stimulants so we can get there ASAP.
Inform him of our runic capabilities, same as Tsunade and Orochimaru.
I think you will need to explain what this means (specifically the second part).
Hazou plans to work on improving Ninja-Radar and Iron Earth next.
I would also indicate that our defenses would be well-improved by researching Force Dome-based Skywalkers, so that we can use Icarus runes against Hidan, Sasori, and Kisame.
(If Kagome returns) Tell him about teaching team Uplift SC.
  • Hazou made the judgment call that this increased the probability of success. We take full responsibility.
Why only if Kagome returns? Isn't it better to come clean regardless, in case Kagome returns later or if/when one of our forbidden-SC users has to use it for some other crisis?
 
She looked towards the land. In the distance, she thought she saw shapes rising from the ground. Not mountains. Something about their shape was off. Too… regular. Too many flats, too many even curves, not enough jaggedness.
These are definitely the Hell King's teeth, aren't they? And the pure lands are his maw.

Keep checking for Kagome. Try to rendezvous with him.
Have Kei do this. Kagome does not trust Hazou or his reports right now.

Inform him of TRs -- we'd like to keep these secret from Orochimaru
Please no. At least, not offhand, and not just yet.
Let's at least wait until we know what we want from Naruto before we tell him we can do this and have him order us to cast it over all of Leaf.

Tell him about the bioseals.
Please start with Tsunade only. She'll be less alarmed than Naruto, and better equipped to actually do something to help.
 
Please start with Tsunade only. She'll be less alarmed than Naruto, and better equipped to actually do something to help.
Actually, we should probably tell Tsunade now (as in, right at the end of Chapter 701) in case it changes her assessment on Orochimaru. It also gets us info on whether she can remove them (doubtful, since Orochimaru said Hazou needs to see him personally).

@Sir Stompy Your thoughts on this?
 
As an aside, I noticed that although the plan said to wait until after the bombardment to activate the Iron Earth, going by the very-shallow craters that Deidara noticed we didn't do that.
Robble robble totally not an author error robble robble.

Um...timing error! Yeah. Totally a timing error between the Hazō with the Iron Earth rune and HazōShotCaller. Yup. These things happen, y'know?

I really don't want to like, actually sit down and argue about this. That's why I avoided doing that in the first place. I am posting my opinion, but ultimately the direction of the story is entirely up to the discretion of the QMs, and you and I or anybody else arguing about this will likely change little about it.
Out of curiosity, if we had independently come up with those ideas on our own instead of Shrooms suggesting them, would that have made a difference in your reaction?

More realistically: "In my capacity Leaf's senior sealmaster, I advise you that that [you ordering me to teach someone else Runecrafting] will probably end the world. Are you sure?"

Alternatively:

Naruto: Hey, go teach Bob how to do Runecrafting.

Hazō: Runecrafting is a Gōketsu clan secret. Fuck off.


One other citation comes to mind, though the best of my efforts cannot find it. It was a surprise second glimpse at Jiraiya in the afterlife, an OOC glimpse as opposed to a second seance, and Jiraiya specifically said something along the lines of "you can't have my chakra". The impression I took away from that and cached for later retrieval is that Jiraiya had retained some chakra over a long period of time, but was at risk of losing it.
I think you mean chapter 515? Probably the quote you want:

He frowned and sat back, shaking his head. "...you old bat? Don't you... Don't you... C'mon, c'mon... Ha! Don't you dare call me that, Little Miss!" His face lit up in delight at the memory. He leapt to his feet, cackling and capering. "Hah! Little Miss, Little Miss, Little Miss! And then she took the stick! I remember!" He thrust both fists at the uncaring grey sky. "I remember! I am Jiraiya of the Sannin! Student of Sarutobi Hiruzen, God of Shinobi! Battle-brother to Orochimaru of the Snakes and Tsunade of the Slugs! Born of no family, begrudged the Matron's roof, feared by braggarts and bullies! Master of the Frog Kata! Sage of the Toad Clan! Fifth Hokage and patriarch of Gōketsu! Husband of Mari, father of Keiko, Noburi, and Hazō! I am Jiraiya the Great, and you will not have me, because I remember!"
 
Is it necessary for him to do this right now, when moving the rift to a random location to avoid being tracked should be his first priority? Orochimaru can multi-thread Shadow Clones in the Seventh Path so that he can simultaneously make substrate and more rift-moving runes, and we can grab substrate from there
Probably not
I would question if we have the time to do this shaping, on the grounds that Tsunade will want us to be booking it to Leaf ASAP. As in, forced march, minimal (if any) rest, Akimichi stimulants so we can get there ASAP
It's not possible to go more than 200 miles in a day even with Nobs, so it hardly matters.
Why only if Kagome returns? Isn't it better to come clean regardless, in case Kagome returns later or if/when one of our forbidden-SC users has to use it for some other crisis
People seem to be saying this so I doubt it will make it into final drafts

But also, no, it's better to confess only when you have the potential problems handled.
I think you will need to explain what this means (specifically the second part).
We told Tsunade/Orochimaru some subset of what our Runes can do. Tell Naruto the same subset, seems straightforward to me
I would also indicate that our defenses would be well-improved by researching Force Dome-based Skywalkers, so that we can use Icarus runes against Hidan, Sasori, and Kisame
You want to turn our Force Dome runes into a paper seal? Have you thought this through? A skywalker variant seems useful but I would probably go Earth Dome.
Have Kei do this. Kagome does not trust Hazou or his reports right now
Nah, no Summons in Arachnid. He'll have to get over it.
Please no. At least, not offhand, and not just yet.
Let's at least wait until we know what we want from Naruto before we tell him we can do this and have him order us to cast it over all of Leaf
Nope, unless I see a bunch of people objecting and then I'll reasses. We can always just say "how does that conceal this from Orochimaru?" And refuse.
Please start with Tsunade only. She'll be less alarmed than Naruto, and better equipped to actually do something to help
I don't see the point.
Actually, we should probably tell Tsunade now (as in, right at the end of Chapter 701) in case it changes her assessment on Orochimaru. It also gets us info on whether she can remove them (doubtful, since Orochimaru said Hazou needs to see him personally).

@Sir Stompy Your thoughts on this
We can tell her on the march I guess. I don't see the urgency.
 
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I also don't think we have anything particularly productive to do with those saved clone-hours, so I'm not inclined to do this, but if you can suggest something I like I'd consider it.
Hundreds of Force Dome Runes. We should have defense in depth. Let's have multiple, multiple layers of force dome layers protecting Leaf. Two at all times and then a huge layered amount ready to activate when Akasuki arrive. This will help defend against Iron Earth Rune's main weakness. As currently, if you dig a shallow tunnel 10 meters under the first force dome, you break through. If there's multiple layers of force dome, we can force them to dig for potentially(?) miles through the Iron Earth rune soil.



Notice how digging past the force wall works. You drill under each force wall and then go up. You then walk over to the next force wall and dig down again. Repeat until you hit the center.
 
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We told Tsunade/Orochimaru some subset of what our Runes can do. Tell Naruto the same subset, seems straightforward to me
Oh, so how about:
  • Inform him of the runic capabilities we told, Tsunade and Orochimaru.
You want to turn our Force Dome runes into a paper seal? Have you thought this through? A skywalker variant seems useful but I would probably go Earth Dome.
I'm not sure why it's an issue, but an Earth Dome variant works fine. The main thing would be to start the research ASAP.
Nah, no Summons in Arachnid. He'll have to get over it.
Compromise: Have Kei write the letter.
 
I would question if we have the time to do this shaping, on the grounds that Tsunade will want us to be booking it to Leaf ASAP. As in, forced march, minimal (if any) rest, Akimichi stimulants so we can get there ASAP.

You think we could rune craft if the ninja carry us like this? Ninja are unusually smooth walkers/runners right?
 
Nah, no Summons in Arachnid. He'll have to get over it.
Have her run over once we get to Leaf, she doesn't have other strategically critical work.
It beats having the source of Kagome's panic attack that he's trying to disengage from chasing him down and pestering him.

Nope, unless I see a bunch of people objecting and then I'll reasses. We can always just say "how does that conceal this from Orochimaru?" And refuse.
The short-term value of TRs is very low, while the long-term impact is higher than skywalkers.
When we reveal these, we should know what we're offering, what our limits are, and what we want to gain.

I don't see the point.
I don't see the point of telling Naruto. Our own family assumed we were compromised to the point of equating it to suicide. This will just give Naruto more misgivings about trusting us, and I don't see how it would help anything.

Tsunade, OtOH, has less distrust of Oro, and can potentially help us verify that our bioseals are begin and/or remove them safely, making her actually quite useful to us.
 
This is not intelligible IMO
I'm sorry, I added a comma when I shouldn't have.

Inform him of the runic capabilities we told Tsunade and Orochimaru.
I still think the other two are more important.
True, but can't we multitrack with SCs?

Also a thought: If Tsunade is ordering us to kill the Moon-nin, should we test to see if their location of death correlates to where they spawn in the rift? That should be worth a few Genin.
 
I honestly think it might be better to delay plans on what to do in Leaf and what to ask Naruto until we know what actually went down while we were gone. What we learn might change what we want to do, beyond the scope of a conditional plan. It also means the next chapter can be a semi-interlude going over that specifically.
 
I think you mean chapter 515? Probably the quote you want:
I did find that one in pretty short order (visual timeline is a big help), but I could've sworn we got a second glimpse of him at some point. Unprompted, a surprise in an interlude or somesuch, in which Jiraiya similarly fights back against the darkness but also specifically mentions that it can't have his chakra.

Or maybe I'm misremembering something. At this point, the lack of evidence is starting to pile up.
 
Out of curiosity, if we had independently come up with those ideas on our own instead of Shrooms suggesting them, would that have made a difference in your reaction?
Hard to say, depends on implementation. If it somehow feels like the universe making Hazo special, then I'd still be annoyed about it. If it's written in such a way as to disguise that fact and feels like a natural extension of what has happened before, then I'd be happy with it (Or at least, not upset).

How shrooms suggested them and the fact that it was suggested by him, a player, do affect my perception of things. But as Shrooms himself pointed out; the suggestions in bullet form are going to feel much less immersive than the same thing being introduced over several updates of functional lore. So I agreed that in practice, the suggestions themselves might not end up as terrible as my initial impulsive reaction to them.

I have never been upset with how dragons have been handled, as a reference point. If that was 'Only Hazo has the skills and is in the right position to save the world', it was coincidental and based on our effort and choices enough that it didn't feel like a gift from the universe to keep things interesting. Hazo simply stumbled upon a situation, he was not somehow 'chosen' for it. I *might* have disagreed with the base idea written out in bullet form, but in implementation it worked out fine.

With that in mind, I have this very important skill called 'selective memory', so if you decide to go ahead with one of those ideas anyways, I can try to forget you didn't come up with it on your own :V
 
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