Right, Force Walls won't help the fortress stay intact.
5SB would help in principle, but the seal elements are vulnerable to the massive explosion and it can't be applied over the entire structure. I expect in practice it won't be too helpful.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
5SB would help in principle, but the seal elements are vulnerable to the massive explosion and it can't be applied over the entire structure. I expect in practice it won't be too helpful.
@Sir Stompy and everyone else
Wow, this is a good-looking plan, and we should all be proud of it.
I do think there are few opportunities to improve it:
I'd instead pitch this as keeping Mari and Kurenai near the Ninja-radar so Hazou can flexibly deploy them outside the dome to protect the Leaf/moon donor group, or protect his position, or take down Jashinists that were caught outside the dome, as needed.
Instead, let the massive explosion be the go signal, and then drop the dome. They won't be able to escape the dome area in the 0-1 rounds before the dome goes up.
And we really want to time the Iron Earth rune right. If we activate it to early, it makes the earthworks fortress indestructible.
Best timing is just enough delay for the rubble to be slightly settled and trapping the Akatsuki, *then* make it inviolable to pin them in place to be cooked via Red Runoff or other fluid/gas based AoE techniques. This is enough of an edge it's worth putting this timing attempt in the plan
Wow, this is a good-looking plan, and we should all be proud of it.
I do think there are few opportunities to improve it:
This looks like Hazou cowardly pulling two valuable combat assets out of the fight to protect him, despite him already being pretty secure.
I'd instead pitch this as keeping Mari and Kurenai near the Ninja-radar so Hazou can flexibly deploy them outside the dome to protect the Leaf/moon donor group, or protect his position, or take down Jashinists that were caught outside the dome, as needed.
Reverse this. To the extent that the force dome is observable, it would serve as a warning for Akatsuki to buff and go to combat footing.
Instead, let the massive explosion be the go signal, and then drop the dome. They won't be able to escape the dome area in the 0-1 rounds before the dome goes up.
And we really want to time the Iron Earth rune right. If we activate it to early, it makes the earthworks fortress indestructible.
Best timing is just enough delay for the rubble to be slightly settled and trapping the Akatsuki, *then* make it inviolable to pin them in place to be cooked via Red Runoff or other fluid/gas based AoE techniques. This is enough of an edge it's worth putting this timing attempt in the plan
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- Location
- UK
I don't think so? My read is that ninja prefer sight lines, mobility, active defenses, and cover, but that fortresses are actively viewed as a bad thing because the opponent casts one big jutsu and now it's a box you're actively trying to escape from. I think this holds double if you have Sasori, and he has canon-like powers; you are much less scared of a random kunai, but you absolutely need room to put all your puppets.
We're I Akatsuki, I think my plan would look like:
- clear a large surrounding area for sightlines, and use seals to augment detection area, as having prep time is critical
- make an open space with tons of huge centralized objects like stone slabs to use as cover from the inside, each open from a side to allow quick movement
- trap the area to high heaven with seals; probably nothing else helps at this combat tier, but add stuff to the pile if it does
- patrol the area however best can be done; summons might help, but random genin are fine too
- add an enclosed, sight-warded space to add plausible deniability about who is hanging around; there will be periods of off-time and one-time, but you don't want the opposition to be able to tell easily, and the longer they have to camp out to find out the more likely you'll detect them
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
They certainly have a huge number of active abilities that would give them a decent chance of surviving.
But absolutely none of those should be active, and they should have no time to activate them.
This leads to them being, in practice, relatively ordinary minor superhumans against some very big pressure waves without their superpowers active.
Ninja combat does not handle "sudden, complete surprise high-powered attack" well.
See the collapse, for an example of how it typically goes.
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Rihaku
The Internet
Are we still worried about Kurenai being compromised by Itachi? Given that Oro was able to reliably check Hazou to his satisfaction and mentioned means of examining people's cognitive metastructure, perhaps he'd be able to check? Could pitch it as 'making absolutely certain no triggers or hidden side effects remain from the last Itachi genjutsu duel,' as Kurenai is the only one here who has genjutsu dueled Itachi in life or death circumstances before.
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- The Void
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@eaglejarl
The problem with the Akatsuki having a incredible defensive bunker is that historically we've been shown they're basically worthless against ninja forces. Add in the fact that the Akatsuki have no reason to expect anything like RER it would strain credulity that they would spend time design a defense that can overcome the awe inspiring power of runes
The problem with the Akatsuki having a incredible defensive bunker is that historically we've been shown they're basically worthless against ninja forces. Add in the fact that the Akatsuki have no reason to expect anything like RER it would strain credulity that they would spend time design a defense that can overcome the awe inspiring power of runes
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
I can totally see one or two of them surviving just by sheer chance - Itachi happened to be checking something on the 7th path and returned just after the blast shredded the place. There's some heavily shielded lab where sasori is doing his work on the seals needed for the rift, and he happened to be in there at the time, and it is protected against things far more thoroughly than normal because the work is too delicate to risk minor distractions. Etc.
But everyone not in special circumstances should just be dead.
But everyone not in special circumstances should just be dead.
- Location
- Europe
I agree in theory, but Hazou blowing up 10+(?) jonin, who knows how many chunnin and 1-3 S-Rank ninja inside a fortress, from a distance is S-rank bullshit.
@Oneiros, you're the Essie now.
Sure, but that truism seems like exactly the kind of thing I would expect "S-rank defensive sealmaster" to be an exception to, for "S-rank defensive sealmaster" to not be completely meaningless.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Basically my thought summarizes to the survival roll for any Akatsuki members should be effectively a luck roll - were they lucky enough to not be in the blast zone. How you'll define the blast zone may be somewhat reduced by the extent of the fortifications, but they are unlikely to have built it with anything on the scale of RER in mind.
Because RER are a S-rank trick. alone they don't make an S rank, because we lack much of the other trappings needed, but they sure as hell let us hit as hard as one, and out of complete surprise.
Because RER are a S-rank trick. alone they don't make an S rank, because we lack much of the other trappings needed, but they sure as hell let us hit as hard as one, and out of complete surprise.
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- The Void
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Sure but in a clash between paper seals and runes we should see runes winning almost every time. Plus why would they be able to tune their defense against a totally unexpected attack vector?
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
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- He/Him
Kisame and Itachi, and Deidara (?) are flesh-and-blood. Konan, Hidan, and to a lesser extent Sasori may all be able to facetank an RER.
Itachi might get a few seconds' warning via the Sharingan - the chakra in the area might do something weird. He might be able to call out to Kisame and they both get out of dodge. The issue then is when they reappear - something weird and bad just happened and they might wait a few minutes or only show up staggered. Deidara might have some technique to handle being at ground zero of a big boom but honestly he probably just wipes because he won't know it's an explosion. Sasori...maybe gets pulped? His organ systems are probably pretty shielded and shielded against everything he can think of...but I don't think he's set up for this, especially if he's fundamentally made of either inert matter or flesh and blood. Hidan, uh. I think he's going to be alive but meaningfully incapacitated. He can fight damaged but if your bones are liquid you can't swing a scythe.
If they were all on-site and we wound up facing down Konan and then Kisame and Itachi reappeared at some point that would feel fair to me.
I'm really hoping Kisame and Konan are offsite because I legitimately think we can negotiate peace with them. At least, it's not unthinkable.
Itachi might get a few seconds' warning via the Sharingan - the chakra in the area might do something weird. He might be able to call out to Kisame and they both get out of dodge. The issue then is when they reappear - something weird and bad just happened and they might wait a few minutes or only show up staggered. Deidara might have some technique to handle being at ground zero of a big boom but honestly he probably just wipes because he won't know it's an explosion. Sasori...maybe gets pulped? His organ systems are probably pretty shielded and shielded against everything he can think of...but I don't think he's set up for this, especially if he's fundamentally made of either inert matter or flesh and blood. Hidan, uh. I think he's going to be alive but meaningfully incapacitated. He can fight damaged but if your bones are liquid you can't swing a scythe.
If they were all on-site and we wound up facing down Konan and then Kisame and Itachi reappeared at some point that would feel fair to me.
I'm really hoping Kisame and Konan are offsite because I legitimately think we can negotiate peace with them. At least, it's not unthinkable.
- Location
- Washington, USA
So you're saying there's at least one chance in three we launch the assault while he's asleep?
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
My reading of this line is that a ground prepared by a sealmaster is deadly for the attackers (traps, etc.), not safe for the defender.
I don't think we've ever actually seen this in action (except Kagome vs. chakra beasts), but the main thing that comes to my mind is Emstar's plan for Team Uplift vs. Everyone in the second round of the fourth event of the Chuunin Exams. It involved us retreating ever-deeper into concentric circles of defenses we've built, and then, once the attacking force plows through them while taking heavy losses, we tunneled out while exploding our fortifications behind us. That's the sort of thing I'm imagining.
The Akatsuki's deals-one-stress anti-Summon/SC countermeasures would fit the bill as well. The point of a prepared ground isn't to protect yourself against attacks (which is mostly futile), it's to thin out the attacking force on their way to you.
Which is something our runic bullshit literally leapfrogs.
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- Yes.
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- Europe
We did during the first Zoo Rush,
Manda could smash through it, but that's a Boss Summons vs whatever.
Reflecting Rune effects do sound like bullshit though. (At least against Sasori at the moment)
Kisame's summons are sharks so they're limited mainly to water, and Itachi's crows are better suited but Itachi is noted to not be made of chakra. I expect random subordinates to be the bulk of patrols.
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They might have Wakahisa this time around
- Location
- [REDACTED]
I was about to agree with you, but upon reflection I don't think this is entirely true. Passive durability must be directly tied to certain stats, physique obviously, but you can make arguments for athletics, taijutsu, and even MW/RW as well.
Someone like Tsunade can punch through stone without even chakra boosting. That implies she must have high levels of passive superhuman durability and strength.
Likewise it's hard for me to imagine that the difference between RW 30 and RW 60 is merely skill. It would strain credibility if the latter was just... better at aiming and predicting the movements of their opponents. Surely someone with RW 60 is able to throw a kunai at speeds well in excess of the best professional baseball pitchers IRL, even without Chakra boosting?
Like it really doesn't make sense. There has to be an inherent cap on certain (most?) skills for civilians. Otherwise, given the poulation distribution, there'd inevitably be plenty of civilian MW users who could go toe to toe with a chunin and win.
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Narratively/flavor-wise ninja are always boosting at least a little bit when doing ninja shit like this
I think you're right here, generally skills represent everything you could feasibly do to be better at them, AKA accuracy, technique, predicting opponents, raw experience and knowledge, raw power and strength, etc. Notably your max Boost increases as you improve physical skills, so clearly something beyond raw skill is happening there.
The cap on physical skills for civilians is 10 in most cases
Not for long they won't.
(Sorry, Noburi. We'll resurrect/abduct your sisters latter.)
- Location
- Europe
- Location
- U.S.
Oh, i misremembered, my bad. It's FSB which is immobile and fixed in space... except it lacks fire immunity. I wonder if that comes into play in a relevant timespan in a explosion...
- Location
- Europe
HAZOU: "A Sister here! A Sister there! Sisters as fine red Mist everywhere!"
KURENAI: "Is he ok?"
MARI: "No"
KEI: "No"
TSUANDE: "No"
OROCHIMARU: "No.....what? Even I am not that screwed up"
+2 TYS