She who frolics last frolics best.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Hey, that's hardly fair - Hazō can consistently beat fresh genin! In fact, judging by his showing in the chūnin exam, he's quite near the peak of genin combat skill.
Reading while tired, thought it said 'Shikaku's sharingan' for a moment and did a double take.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
I was reading this weeks ACOUP blog post and it got me inspired to ask about the state of MfD's currency. It's long been established fact that ryo are made of gold, and that 10R is roughly equal to 1 USD in terms of purchasing power. However, this is not exactly historically accurate. Historical money was usually primarily made of silver for everyday transactions and the value of things was drastically different now. Labor being incredibly cheap in the past compared to today, for example. If ryo are primarily made of gold even in the smallest denomination then the value of the coins has to be absurdly large, or gold is much less valuable than it was historically. So I wanted to clarify a few things.
1) Are low denomination ryo coins (the kind that we'd expect to be in common everyday use) -- primarily made of silver, gold, or bronze, or some other metal? If so, what metal(s), and in what amounts?
2) Is the value of said coinage primarily based on metal weight, or is it backed by the Tower? In the first case, the purpose of the Tower minting coins would be to guarentee that all of said coins were the same weight and purity.
3) How monetized is the countryside? If I wander into a flyspeck village in rural Fire and try to pay with gold, can I do it? Or do civvies in those areas expect to pay their taxes in kind and not money?
4) Are there many types of coins in circulation? If every major and minor village mints their own ryo, we'd expect a melange of currency to be in use, and there to be ryo that were significantly higher value than others due to debasement. People generally prefer to spend their bad coins and save their good ones, so this matters.
5) If so, are there certain types of Ryo that have a good repuation? Probably Leaf right? Since they were top dogs for a long time.
6) Has Leaf minted large numbers of good coins recently? I assume the war has made things harder, but these things are often on the timescale of generations, so the old good stuff might still be in circulation. But perhaps Asuma debased the currency during the war.
7) Are there problems with people clipping the coinage?
8) Are there prohibitions on using currency from other villages in Leaf? Other currency in other villages? This isn't really historical AFAIK, but the villages are hostile enough to each other that I could see it.
I'm mostly asking this because of Hazou's new ES capabilities, we have the ability to reshape the way Leaf does its currency. We can get rid of any debasement Leaf has had to do to keep things afloat for the last 2 years. Plus mint more coins. There are lots of fun things you can do when you have infinite gold. Like buy up other countries money and melt it down, then reissue it as your own currency and keep the base metals. Then sell those metals, basically free money.
I was reading this weeks ACOUP blog post and it got me inspired to ask about the state of MfD's currency. It's long been established fact that ryo are made of gold, and that 10R is roughly equal to 1 USD in terms of purchasing power. However, this is not exactly historically accurate. Historical money was usually primarily made of silver for everyday transactions and the value of things was drastically different now. Labor being incredibly cheap in the past compared to today, for example. If ryo are primarily made of gold even in the smallest denomination then the value of the coins has to be absurdly large, or gold is much less valuable than it was historically. So I wanted to clarify a few things.
1) Are low denomination ryo coins (the kind that we'd expect to be in common everyday use) -- primarily made of silver, gold, or bronze, or some other metal? If so, what metal(s), and in what amounts?
2) Is the value of said coinage primarily based on metal weight, or is it backed by the Tower? In the first case, the purpose of the Tower minting coins would be to guarentee that all of said coins were the same weight and purity.
3) How monetized is the countryside? If I wander into a flyspeck village in rural Fire and try to pay with gold, can I do it? Or do civvies in those areas expect to pay their taxes in kind and not money?
4) Are there many types of coins in circulation? If every major and minor village mints their own ryo, we'd expect a melange of currency to be in use, and there to be ryo that were significantly higher value than others due to debasement. People generally prefer to spend their bad coins and save their good ones, so this matters.
5) If so, are there certain types of Ryo that have a good repuation? Probably Leaf right? Since they were top dogs for a long time.
6) Has Leaf minted large numbers of good coins recently? I assume the war has made things harder, but these things are often on the timescale of generations, so the old good stuff might still be in circulation. But perhaps Asuma debased the currency during the war.
7) Are there problems with people clipping the coinage?
8) Are there prohibitions on using currency from other villages in Leaf? Other currency in other villages? This isn't really historical AFAIK, but the villages are hostile enough to each other that I could see it.
I'm mostly asking this because of Hazou's new ES capabilities, we have the ability to reshape the way Leaf does its currency. We can get rid of any debasement Leaf has had to do to keep things afloat for the last 2 years. Plus mint more coins. There are lots of fun things you can do when you have infinite gold. Like buy up other countries money and melt it down, then reissue it as your own currency and keep the base metals. Then sell those metals, basically free money.
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So somewhere between R40,000 and R400,000 to the lb of gold. Assume about R120,000 as I think that makes the most sense in context. That means a 1g gold coin (about the smallest possible coin to mint by hand) is still worth ~R300, that seems...impractical.
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What a wonderful canon omake. Thank you for providing us with such advance chapters, EJ. We have the best QMs.
You're only missing(Pain's) Hazou's Rinnegans, but Ino and Akane might as well have gotten used to them.
Joking aside, this really was a wonderful meta prelude to The Big Slurp, and of course Battle of the Gods 2: The Last Argument of (the New) Ninja.
You're only missing
Joking aside, this really was a wonderful meta prelude to The Big Slurp, and of course Battle of the Gods 2: The Last Argument of (the New) Ninja.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Sir Stompy and @OrthernLight
I remember at some point we established that Leaf ryō was preferred over the local currency -- I think that was back in Iron?
We haven't spent literally any time talking about currency and the exact nature of it. ponwog95, the coins are debased metals and 'gold' ryō are actually some more common metal with a gold wash on it, or perhaps they are heavily debased red gold (gold mixed with iron / copper / whatever).
I remember at some point we established that Leaf ryō was preferred over the local currency -- I think that was back in Iron?
We haven't spent literally any time talking about currency and the exact nature of it. ponwog95, the coins are debased metals and 'gold' ryō are actually some more common metal with a gold wash on it, or perhaps they are heavily debased red gold (gold mixed with iron / copper / whatever).
- Location
- Can’t say. I know my momentum.
I bet not! Just picturing that scene makes me crack up.
Same. It feels like "sharingan" is a more common word than "shenanigan" in the current context.
- Location
- UK
It took me longer than you'd think to realize this wasn't referring to a new eyeball.
E: *reads thread* maybe not longer than you'd think
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- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
I can't speak for the first two, but:
Also prevent the Gōketsu from minting any more scrip
They're mostly wondering why Kakuzu isn't stealing all their money coins right now
Yes there are, that was a plot point in the Chūnin Exams (do we go to the money exchange booth or not), also it was exploited in some secret messaging systems of the Mori, and then Hagoromo Ritsuo tried to claim we paid him in "Rock ryō" to make us look bad, when actually we paid him in a randomised mix of many different kinds of ryō. Because we're a bit catty.
If I remember correctly, yes, Leaf ryō are high value. Don't quote me on this, I wouldn't quote me on this, but I believe Mist is not too far behind, and Hot Springs is doing okay. Considering Rock has enormous land resources, I'm expecting them to also be doing fine, but you never know. Maybe they mint a lot to remain competitive.
Memecoins are frowned upon because most of the playerbase and QMs know a scam when they see one, but otherwise... merchants have what merchants have, and deals are deals. Get a guy to sell stuff on a Mist market he'll come back with Mist coins. Still, you don't want it known that you have too many coins of the village we're at war with... or Ritsuo wouldn't have tried his little trick.
- Location
- Europe
We had a famine, a war and lost Land.
Leaf economy is probably not that great.
River should be doing well I guess, maybe we can buy our Iron mine back. Just because.
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- She/Her/They/Them
Huh. Just got thinking. We can crash an economy through massive overproduction of iron and minting coins of whatever, sure. But we could also just empty out clan coffers or large reserves from afar, right? Well not afar afar but we could hide not too close from a bad place and then uh, suddenly, you know what? Yesterday the treasury was full but now it's only got a statue of a massive middle finger.
- Location
- Yes.
That is one of the things Hazou suggested to Asuma when he showed off the economic WMD, though we would have to get close enough to actually do that so it's...not exactly the safest way we could use Earthshaping.
The economy and the money in circulation are related but distinct. Minted coins last for a long time. If Leaf has historically good coinage it should still mostly be in circulation after a few bad years.
There's almost no point in buying the mine back when we can ES all the ore out of it and skedaddle.
I want to point out that the hyperinflation worries are significantly overblown. It's unfortunate that I see so many people repeating them, probably significantly unintentionally influencing the QMs. We are at absolutely no risk for hyperinflation. That's the province of fiat currencies. What we are at risk of is regular inflation. The 2% per year kind. It's fine.
Naruto probably shouldn't even be worried about this since it's so unprecedented. That he is, is, in my opinion, an anachronism on the QM side. He should just be incredibly jealous of our infinite wealth.
As to the rest, ryo is worked metal and therefore not really very manipulable by ES. Also we'd have to be very close, meters away, it would take hours, and if we were interrupted we would take injuries from not shutting down the ES properly.
Probably not worth it compared to just making money ourselves.
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- She/Her/They/Them
No, I mean, we can do it on purpose. It would be extremely time-consuming but it would be possible.
I don't remember if Hazō kept working at it after showing Asuma, but he had a respectable range with the technique.
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ES affects a cubic area of side length 2^Effect metres. We currently have ES 50, so our max effect is our AB of 6, so our max range is 32 metres (since we are at the centre of the affected area when we cast the technique; I don't think we can reposition the AOE). We could, I think, spend only the few minutes required to cast the technique at 32 metres and then retreat to 64 metres, as long as we stayed within the AOE.
Edit: though maybe we can actually cast the AOE so that we're at the edge of it? Not sure; I don't think it's explicitly specified in the technique description.
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I'm unsure if this works, since you're supposed to stay still to the point where Hazou pisses himself while using the technique. :HazouLook:
Also it's 2^6 = 64 meters from Hazou each way at ES 60 IIRC. But it doesn't really change anything here.
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Really? The technique doesn't say anything about having to stay still, just having to stay in contact with the material you're shaping; in fact, since you're "supposed" to mold material manually, it would be weird for you to have to stay still. Do you have a quote?
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Ir was back when Hazou was initially making the first GS replica. Noburi monitored him, Hazou sat in a latrine, and a maid/employee/Goketsu Civilian spoon-fed Hazou broth.
We were timeladdering to "an entire day," and since Hazou couldn't move, as per the jutsu requirement, we had to take the above precautions.
- Location
- Yes.
- Location
- Liverpool
If we did that now, we'd get
Hazō, Earth Shaping jutsu: 50
+12 (time bonus, two steps)
+6 (invoke: Iron Nerve)
+6 (invoke: Consulted Jiraiya's Notes)
+6 (invoke: Out-Touched Sealing Master)
+6 (invoke: Sufficient Contiguous Material (sealing substrate this time))
+6 (invoke: Support Crew)
+6 (invoke: Consulted Master Sculptors)(Hopefully still counts? If not, maybe a new one while looking at the OG great seal)
+0 (dice)
=ES 98. Which would be quite good, but creating a new Great Seal would likely be over 100, IMO. We'd definitely need to create the blank in one day, and then get a bunch of fate points back and try infusing with that same level of juice.
Still. That's actually kinda encouraging, that if we went all-in on a project we could get pretty good numbers.
(Yeah yeah, I know, big difference between making an accurate sculpture and making a blank. Still, cool to see what growth and not being injured does.)
((Also, picturing Hazō going through this again, to actually make a copy of the great seal as a decoration for the compound.))
-6FD
Hazō, Earth Shaping jutsu: 50
+12 (time bonus, two steps)
+6 (invoke: Iron Nerve)
+6 (invoke: Consulted Jiraiya's Notes)
+6 (invoke: Out-Touched Sealing Master)
+6 (invoke: Sufficient Contiguous Material (sealing substrate this time))
+6 (invoke: Support Crew)
+6 (invoke: Consulted Master Sculptors)(Hopefully still counts? If not, maybe a new one while looking at the OG great seal)
+0 (dice)
=ES 98. Which would be quite good, but creating a new Great Seal would likely be over 100, IMO. We'd definitely need to create the blank in one day, and then get a bunch of fate points back and try infusing with that same level of juice.
Still. That's actually kinda encouraging, that if we went all-in on a project we could get pretty good numbers.
(Yeah yeah, I know, big difference between making an accurate sculpture and making a blank. Still, cool to see what growth and not being injured does.)
((Also, picturing Hazō going through this again, to actually make a copy of the great seal as a decoration for the compound.))
-6FD
In general, Aspects are very difficult to generate for sealing/runecrafting. We would probably get OtSG, and maybe one additional one at the most. But probably not.
- Location
- Liverpool
Yes, I know. My point was more on the growth and changing circumstances, and how far we've come, doing an equivalent situation analysis. I am fairly sure, if we had a kagome helping who knew runecrafting, Noburi helping in the same way, and the fact that the dragons and path collapse is an existence threat, we could get at LEAST two. Fairly extenuating circumstances. Probably not all that we got then, you are right, though I also acknowledged that in my post, so...
Plus, if you really want to get into it, I read Paper's bit as being against using our core aspects, since they don't really all apply. Situationally created ones that come from non-trivial scenario arrangement (having people help, having research assistants, etc), I think we could make a better case for it. QMs respond better to using resources (including time) to get advantage, rather than just having them.