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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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1234qwerty said:
How many days would we realistically give Keiko before we started studying the summoning scroll to try to bring her back? I feel like it might be more than 9... but would it? Doing something like that would be a huge breach of trust, so knowing that she's coming back makes me prefer not doing it, but how would we react to the rest of the party pushing for it?
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Don't forget, Keiko would have no way of knowing if the party had been found and TPK'D by a passing Leaf-nin. The first she'd hear is Jiraiya's message. We very much do not have a free 10 days. To me, making sure we're hiding well is priority 1. If we can research seals without attracting attention, great. If not, then too bad. We could make more seals though (PMYF came in handy and we've never actually used the Macerator seal).
 
schlega said:
Test the basic feasibility of Hidden Heaven by stacking some logs, putting FSB on the top log, then removing the support to see if it stays locked in the air.
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We already know this is the case - what else does locking something relative to the earth mean? I think what we should test is whether we can kawarimi off of frozen objects.

And also get Kagome/Mari to help us generate a set of seal proposals crafted to maximize J's interest in them.

Lastly, @eaglejarl @Velorien still need to know whether Hazou is aware of the 1/32 chance of producing sharingan offspring (i.e. has that happened to Kurosawas in the past) and if so, whether those kids pass on iron nerve or sharingan? (E: did mist have to trade over all such Kurosawa to avoid Leaf being pissed?)
 
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I advocate for open sacks of woodchips for kawarimi targets such that when they hit the ground they will spread out sufficiently that they cannot be used by someone else to substitute to.
 
OliWhail said:
We already know this is the case - what else does locking something relative to the earth mean? I think what we should test is whether we can kawarimi off of frozen objects.
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There was something about the way it was described that made me think it could fail if there was nothing supporting the seals. I just want to make sure.
 
1234qwerty said:
One time use substitution targets definitely seem like a thing we want to have up our sleeves.
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I proposed some creative substitution targets before, but more with a goal of concealing the fact that substitution took place. They include:
  • Block of ice (in hot weather, it will melt in a few hours, destroying all evidence of Substitution);
  • Using empty PMYF seal to collect log/boulder nearby, step on the place it occupied , then substitute. It will look like somebody moved log/boulder slightly from its place.
  • Use Log/stone collected from the bottom of a river/pond, PMYF from water surface. Noticing that stone at the bottom of the lake is a recent addition would be hard. May even fool the Byakugan users.
 
OliWhail said:
We already know this is the case - what else does locking something relative to the earth mean? I think what we should test is whether we can kawarimi off of frozen objects.

And also get Kagome/Mari to help us generate a set of seal proposals crafted to maximize J's interest in them.

Lastly, @eaglejarl @Velorien still need to know whether Hazou is aware of the 1/32 chance of producing sharingan offspring (i.e. has that happened to Kurosawas in the past) and if so, whether those kids pass on iron nerve or sharingan? (E: did mist have to trade over all such Kurosawa to avoid Leaf being pissed?)
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I don't remember the exact quote, but I'm pretty sure neither Hazou nor the Kurosawa clan knows about it. They've only had the Iron Nerve for a few generations, after all.
 
Ehm, what would happen if (Hazou's old clan) did end up producing a Sharingan user?
 
Shard said:
Ehm, what would happen if (Hazou's old clan) did end up producing a Sharingan user?
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That's what I asked the QMs above. I can see it going one of a couple ways: either no Kurosawa has ever gotten a Sharingan (unlikely, given that there have been 10 generations of them), or the Kurosawas who got it didn't get a version that could be passed on for whatever reason and their kids got regular Iron Nerve, or Mist had some agreement to hand over all such Kurosawa babies to Leaf to avoid tensions over bloodline theft leading to war.
 
I assume Leaf would be really pissed and demand a handover. So, diplomatic tensions as soon as it gets found out.
 
OliWhail said:
That's what I asked the QMs above. I can see it going one of a couple ways: either no Kurosawa has ever gotten a Sharingan (unlikely, given that there have been 10 generations of them), or the Kurosawas who got it didn't get a version that could be passed on for whatever reason and their kids got regular Iron Nerve, or Mist had some agreement to hand over all such Kurosawa babies to Leaf to avoid tensions over bloodline theft leading to war.
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Wouldn't said baby possess both iron nerve and the sharingan?
 
There's another possibility. They got Sharingan...which means they might not have gotten Iron Nerve since the two are so related to the nervous system. But the Sharingan needs to be unlocked. The Uchiha know this, so harshly train and send their children into battle to do so. A Kurosawa who has the Sharingan but not the Iron Nerve...would appear to be a clan member who lacks the bloodline entirely.

They would be less likely to have resources spent on their training, both because I imagine Kurosawas are terrible teachers by this point (you did it right five minutes ago, why are you getting it wrong now?!) and their potential is lower. They'd be less likely to be sent on dangerous missions, and if they end up in a dangerous situation, they are less likely to survive enough to unlock the Sharingan.

There probably have been a few Kurosawas with the Sharingan. They were considered cripples, and relegated to the back bench for most of their lives.
 
Kiba said:
Wouldn't said baby possess both iron nerve and the sharingan?
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Found where it was originally described, which says that both Iron Nerve and Sharingan bearers recognize the potential for Sharingan babies and suggests that a Sharingan-Kurosawa would actually not have IN (since the bloodline weirdness is no longer distributed around their body)
Rihaku said:
The user's offspring have 1/32 chance of becoming a full-fledged Uchiha, as the chakra-laced neural structure which is normally distributed throughout an Iron Nerve carrier's body ends up where it belongs: inside their eyes as the Sharingan. The user and anyone with a Sharingan are immediately aware of this potential, though not the exact numbers involved. Others are oblivious.
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E: Obviously the QMs may have chosen some other way to deal with this, but I sure hope not, becuase I would love to use it as a bargaining chip ("hey, I hear Leaf sure could use some more sharingan eyes!"). If there's anyone in the world who will respect the attempt to turn a threat on your life into carte-blanche to sleep with any woman in Fire, it's gotta be Jiraiya.
 
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Are there any meaningful precautions we can take against Jiraya's attempts to exert control over us? Here are some things he might try:
  • Split the team apart
  • Take a member of the team as a semi-permanent hostage
  • Insert additional members into the team
Is there any value in preparing a suicide switch for Hazou or our team members? Maybe tattoo a flawed explosive tag inside our mouth and if suicide really becomes the best option, just infuse it with chakra.
 
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Omake: True Ultimate Secret Kurosawa Seduction Technique
  • Apocrypha
    • Omake: True Ultimate Secret Kurosawa Seduction Technique

    "...and now we're here," finished Inoue-sensei.

    Jiraiya leaned back in his chair and folded his arms. "Alright. And now I have to decide whether your actions, balanced by your potential usefulness, mean you need to die. And don't bother trying to escape, even if I don't catch you the ANBU squads outside will."

    "Jiraiya-sama--" Hazou began meekly.

    "Oh, being all respectful now that I'm threatening your life? Maybe I should try that more often."

    Hazou continued as if he hadn't been interrupted. "--there is a little-known fact about the Kurosawa bloodline that I think is relevant to your decision here. I understand that the presence of the Sharingan bloodline has historically been a source of both great pride and power. The Iron Nerve is derived from an ancient mingling of Uchiha blood with that of the Kurosawa clan, and as such, some fraction of Kurosawa children develop the Sharingan instead of the Iron nerve. Any ninja with a Sharingan will be able to verify this. It is my understanding," he said slowly, trying to force down the blush he felt slowly been building in his cheeks, "that Leaf is currently experiencing a dearth of such ninja." A deep breath to steady himself. "I may be able to c-contribute to fixing that." Now red as a tomato, Hazou suddenly found something intensely interesting on the floor to occupy his focus.

    "...'some fraction'?" Jjraiya repeated deliberately. "What fraction?"

    "Somewhere between one in a hundred and one in twenty, I'm unsure. Perhaps more, with the intervention of medical ninjutsu," Hazou replied, eyes still downcast.

    "Let me make sure we're on the same page here. As a bargaining chip for your life, you're offering to help restore an ancient Leaf bloodline to its former glory, which just so happens to require you to impregnate potentially hundreds of women??"

    To Hazou's right, a quiet *snerk* forced its way through Inoue-sensei's placid expression.

    "...yesJiraiya-sama," Hazou forced out quickly.

    The older man put one hand on his forehead protector. "That is the ballsiest attempt to get some tail I think I've ever seen, and I'm the gods-damned Perv Sage!" He clapped loudly. "Alright! That settles it. All of you are coming back to Leaf with me to recover, and we're gonna see if Tsunade can't figure out a way to up that success rate, tiger."

    Hazou had by now gone past red into a ghostly pale. Noburi stared at him in unreserved awe, Keiko stared at Jiraiya in confusion, and Akane stared serenely into the middle distance.
     
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  • Apocrypha
    • Twofold said:
    Are there any meaningful precautions we can take against Jiraya's attempts to exert control over us? Here are some things he might try:
    • Split the team apart
    • Take a member of the team as a semi-permanent hostage
    • Insert additional members into the team
    Is there any value in preparing a suicide switch for Hazou or our team members? Maybe tattoo a flawed explosive tag inside our mouth and if suicide really becomes the best option, just infuse it with chakra.
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    I don't know that we have the facilities for that, though we could do a similar thing with just an actual tag. Or hold any kind of seal near a storage seal and threaten to store it.

    Honestly I don't know that I'd have a problem with extra ninja as long as they weren't pieces of trash. He would be stupid to split the team given how we've built our skills to work together, which applies similarly to taking members away. Unless he wants to take us all into Konoha for reeducation, which I also don't know that I object to all that strongly. Give us a chance to recover and get some research done in (relative) safety.

    Radvic said:
    • Demonstrating (somehow) that we are loyal to him
    • Emphasizing the diplomatic in with VHitM (which we use to help him
    • Helping resolve the issue we caused (specifics dependant on what the biggest issues for Jiraiya are that we caused)
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    Things that fall into these categories:
    • Giving him the cypher (either decrypted or with offer to help decrypt), showing up to the meeting at all, returning leaf nin bodies
    • The faction that supported us is the expansionist one, Kei is their messiah (potential leverage against the traditionalists), Mari can provide sociopolitical analysis of the village leaders, Noburi their medical knowledge, Mari/Hazou/Akane their hand-to-hand capabilities, Kagome their sealtech
    • "We want to contribute to fixing this, but it's very clear that we're a chakra-bull in a china shop when it comes to international politics. If you point us the right direction, we'll happily throw our efforts into making the world better."
     
    OliWhail said:
    I don't know that we have the facilities for that, though we could do a similar thing with just an actual tag. Or hold any kind of seal near a storage seal and threaten to store it.
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    You don't really need anything more than a needle and ink to make a tattoo. Especially if we don't need it to be good enough to actually work. (...beyond generating Bad Things next to our brain.)

    OliWhail said:
    Honestly I don't know that I'd have a problem with extra ninja as long as they weren't pieces of trash. He would be stupid to split the team given how we've built our skills to work together, which applies similarly to taking members away. Unless he wants to take us all into Konoha for reeducation, which I also don't know that I object to all that strongly. Give us a chance to recover and get some research done in (relative) safety.
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    Yeah, we'll most likely end up doing what he tells us to a tee.

    That being said, if we can prepare to extract ourselves from under him we should. Anything might happen in the future, not having any contingencies feels like giving up to me. I mean, imagine if our leash gets passed on to Orochimaru or Danzo? Or maybe Kabuto is our new handler?
     
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    Twofold said:
    Are there any meaningful precautions we can take against Jiraya's attempts to exert control over us?
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    If I could use Star Wars as a metaphor, we're Lando and Jiraiya is Vader. We can certainly break the agreement if we feel he is altering it too much, declare ourselves rebels, and go on the run. However that meets we're now Rebels and can expect to be treated as such.

    Is there any value in preparing a suicide switch for Hazou or our team members? Maybe tattoo a flawed explosive tag inside our mouth and if suicide really becomes the best option, just infuse it with chakra.
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    Should suggest that to Kagome just to see what color his face turns. But seriously, no, even if there were a better method. While I won't say that there are no circumstances under which suicide would be the best option, I think they are all low probability scenarios and the chance of one occurring is far less than the chance of one of our many frequently borderline-suicidal companions doing something stupid in a fit of depression or conviction they're "saving" everyone else.

    We may carry explosives around, but there's no need to carry a grenade in the mouth.
     
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