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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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ContextBot said:
Considering that they split from Feline.....is it their homeland?
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Hyōhakken owns it, so yes.

MMKII said:
A young woman who is literally insane and addicted to socially manipulating people.
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Could you be more specific? :>

Sir Stompy said:
Would he be happy with deposing the Leopard Boss and having their next leader swear neutrality in the Dog-Hyena-Pangolin conflict? That way he gets a buffer state (until the Pangs invade at least)
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It's certainly something you could propose.
 
Sir Stompy said:
It shouldn't be surprising that this is up for debate, since there are some very strong arguments in favor. Millions of people were in the process of starving to death in Japan at the time, a difference of a few weeks before the end of the war and the Allies starting to ship food in would and likely did save more lives than the bombs took, to say nothing of the cost in lives if the home islands were invaded.

If you want to get an idea of how bad the famine was in Japan at the time, Grave of the Fireflies is a good movie to watch about it. Not to watch in general, it's about as horrifying as movies can be, but good to understand.
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Counterargument: Although it's impossible to establish historical "what-ifs", there remains debate about whether or not the nuclear bomb was what led to japanese surrender.
I remember being taught that it was an important factor, but not enough to cause them to surrender on its own.
Apparently it didn't affect their internal politics much more than the already ongoing, significantly deadlier and more industrially devastating firebombings. IIRC when they actually surrendered, their declaration put the bombings on the same level as the loss of Manchuria to the communists and the entry of yet another superpower into the war against Japan. Because yes, in the time between the nukes and the actual surrender they took another massive L there.
 
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I would assume a retaliatory strike force, even a hastily assembled one, has at least one Dog jounin - if not multiple - given it would be explicitly intended to enter enemy territory. If Leopard jounin numbers are such that 33% (roll of 5 or 6 on a d6) of randomly encountered adult Leopards are jounin, then Cannai would be foolish to permit the mission without at least two Dog jounin on staff.

He's well aware of Hazou's capabilities - low base combat stats, high versatility and AoE disruptive power - and, even without time to sculpt the mission force perfectly, wouldn't have given it the go-ahead at all if the existing Dog team had no answer to the incredibly common and predictable situation of "encountering an enemy Jounin or two."
 
this started as a look at Hazou's pyramid with the new info about DoB and MS, then just.... kept going. enjoy!

Hazou (current)
60Resolve
50SealingEarthshaping
40TaijutsuCalligraphyShadow Clone
30AlertnessAthleticsChakraPhysique
20DeceitPresenceRapportSubstitutePEA
10StealthEmpathyMedknowGhost ScalesP.K. HammerLiving RootsPrim SealingTH

now with DoB(assuming it affects MS) and MS, that changes our targeted level for a bunch of our skills
TH 40 to qualify for MS
PS 30 to hit softcap
MS 30 to hit softcap
Hazou (hitting key research numbers, ignoring pyramid rules)
60Resolve
50SealingEarthshaping
40TaijutsuCalligraphyShadow CloneTech Hacking
30AlertnessAthleticsChakraPhysiquePrim SealingMinatosealing
20DeceitPresenceRapportSubstitutePEA
10StealthEmpathyMedknowGhost ScalesP.K. HammerLiving Roots
....that pyramid doesn't work, but it would if we bought up a 30 -> 40 and a 40 -> 50. how 'bout Taijutsu and Ath?
(the Ath purchase will be 37 -> 47, so it's rolled at 50 due to IN)

Hazou (key research stats + Taij and Ath)
60Resolve
50SealingEarthshapingTaijutsu
40CalligraphyShadow CloneTech HackingAthletics
30AlertnessChakraPhysiquePrim SealingMinatosealing
20DeceitPresenceRapportSubstitutePEA
10StealthEmpathyMedknowGhost ScalesP.K. HammerLiving Roots
Nice! that works really smoothly. we're buying a lot of doublecosted research skills, but that's unavoidable.
this come out to... 3076 xp?

This does neglect Bones of Creation, while we have a huge substrate stockpile, and can keep buying off Oro for a while, we'll want it eventually. this will require raising a 30 to 40. I suggest we finally raise our CR to 40, for better summoning and a Jounin Aura(!), but we theoreticaly could but a ~3 levels of Alertness or Physique instead to save xp.

Hazou (+CR 40 and BoC 30)
60Resolve
50SealingEarthshapingTaijutsu
40CalligraphyShadow CloneTech HackingAthleticsChakra
30AlertnessPhysiquePrim SealingMinatosealingBoC
20DeceitPresenceRapportSubstitutePEA
10StealthEmpathyMedknowGhost ScalesP.K. HammerLiving Roots
that's another 942 xp, almost all spent on CR. total xp spend is now up to 4018.
This could be reduced to just 386 by buying Alertness 36->40 instead, or even cheaper by buying Physique. I prefer CR, but we do have budget options. from a pyramid standpoint, these are identical.

pleasantly, our pyramid is now perfectly primed to buy a 50 and a 60!
Ath 47 -> 57 is an easy pick. we probably want to boost Sealing to 60, it'll raise the softcap on PS and MS(we'll need to buy 30 -> 36 in both), and leave us with effective 72 in all 3 of our sealing styles. badass.

Hazou (+Sealing and Ath/Taijutsu)
60ResolveSealing
50EarthshapingTaijutsuAthletics
40CalligraphyShadow CloneTech HackingChakra
30AlertnessPhysiquePrim SealingMinatosealingBoC
20DeceitPresenceRapportSubstitutePEA
10StealthEmpathyMedknowGhost ScalesP.K. HammerLiving Roots
that's 1645 xp. total xp spend is now up to 5663.
raising Tai 50 -> 57 will be another 578 xp, for a grand total of 6241 xp.

This looks pretty good, but 6k xp is a huge amount! how long is this gonna take us anyways?
Well, with FOOM, Hazou pulls about 10xp per subjective day.
figuring out how much subjective time we'll have per day is harder, but we'll probably be using TR150 to unstagnate in the near future. this plan assumes taking DoB, and immediately buying Primordial Sealing to 30(effective 62) so I feel very confidant assumeing that we'll have at least 2x time dilation for most of this process, probably closer to 3x with more sealchaining and vererancy.


at just 2x dialtion, that's 20xp/day(suck it, Jaraiya!). 6241/20 = ~312 days, about 10 months. not bad!
at 3x dilation, that's 208 days, or about 7 objective FOOM-months.

I'm not saying that this is the *most optimal* build, but I wanted to look at our pyramid again now that we have a bunch of brand new stats that need to be raised to the 30 or 40. overall, it looks great! the pyramid advances very smoothly and helpfully. for research/combat, at least. the big catch is that all the new 30s/40s squeeze out any chance we had of advanceing our socials in the near future. that's a shame, but it's the cost of being a world class researcher in three diffrent diciplines(two of them incredibly OP secrets) while also being a genuine no-asterisk Jounin (aura and combat stats included). looks pretty good to me.



Hazou(full badass, also lightning element because why not)
70Sealing
60ResolveTaijutsu
50EarthshapingAthleticsAlertness
40CalligraphyShadow CloneTech HackingChakraPrim SealingMinatosealing
30PhysiqueBoCDeceitPresenceRapportSubstituteSotS
20PEAMedknowEmpathyBRIGeode CoffinEarth RendPangolin Flash
10StealthGhost ScalesP.K. HammerLiving Roots_Earth Jutsu__Earth Jutsu__Earth Jutsu_
that's 4692 xp. total xp spend is now up to 10,911.
eff Tai is 70, eff Ath is 60. our three(!) sealing stats are all rolling at 82(!), and we've bought a few more levels is ES and Calig to keep up.

getting the xp for this step at 3x dialation will take 156 days, about 5 months. if PS 72 gets us to 4x dilation, it'll take 117 days, about 4 months.


Hazou(Unambigious Essie)
80Sealing
70TaijutsuAthletics
60ResolveEarthshapingCalligraphy
50AlertnessPrim SealingMinatosealingSotS
40Shadow CloneTech HackingChakraDeceitPresence
30PhysiqueBoCRapportSubstituteEmpathyPang. Flash
20PEAMedknowBRIGeode CoffinEarth RendLiving Roots_Earth Jutsu_
10StealthGhost ScalesP.K. Hammer_Earth Jutsu__Earth Jutsu__Earth Jutsu__Earth Jutsu__Earth Jutsu_
that's 7740 xp. total xp spend is now up to 18,617.
we're rolling at eff 92 in all our sealing stats, with the ES/Calig to suppourt it. and because these numbers are at exactly 80/50/60, we have plenty of space to buy them up without changing our pyramid.
meanwhile, our Taijutsu and Ath are at eff 80, plus SotS and whatever dengenerate minatoseals we've invented.
we have two socaials at 40 and two at 30. empathy and Rapport get +12 from FiF, so this could be all four socials at ~40, or Empathy and rapport at 52 while deceit and presance sit at 30.

Getting this batch of xp will take 192 days, about 7 months. total time elapsed: 20ish objective FOOM-months from current date.
It will also require 37 unstagnations. (19 research and 18 combat). if we're gonna pull this off, that's one major sealing project and one on-level combat each objective month. we need to get ready to kick some serious ass.
 
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Rihaku said:
I would assume a retaliatory strike force, even a hastily assembled one, has at least one Dog jounin - if not multiple - given it would be explicitly intended to enter enemy territory. If Leopard jounin numbers are such that 33% (roll of 5 or 6 on a d6) of randomly encountered adult Leopards are jounin, then Cannai would be foolish to permit the mission without at least two Dog jounin on staff.

He's well aware of Hazou's capabilities - low base combat stats, high versatility and AoE disruptive power - and, even without time to sculpt the mission force perfectly, wouldn't have given it the go-ahead at all if the existing Dog team had no answer to the incredibly common and predictable situation of "encountering an enemy Jounin or two."
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You would THINK so, but you would also THINK that Leaf wouldn't allow its jounin force to be reduced by 60+% without anyone noticing. EJ did say this:
eaglejarl said:
Being drawn from a local area means that they are drawn from a fairly small pool; this group is competent but not the best that Dog can put forward, and Hazō is expected to make up the missing combat power. (Cannai's original plan had been to hold this particular part of the raid for a day or two until he could get some stronger fighters in.)
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Apparently HAZOU is making up the missing combat power. I really hope that means it was a small amount of missing combat power. With our seal buffs and debuffs Hazou is probably worth the rough equivalent of one of those experienced chunin Leopards. So unless we have two jounin Dogs with us we are in some trouble. If we have no jounin Dogs, we are in serious trouble.

So I am going to continue freaking out, thank you.
 
Rihaku said:
I would assume a retaliatory strike force, even a hastily assembled one, has at least one Dog jounin - if not multiple - given it would be explicitly intended to enter enemy territory. If Leopard jounin numbers are such that 33% (roll of 5 or 6 on a d6) of randomly encountered adult Leopards are jounin, then Cannai would be foolish to permit the mission without at least two Dog jounin on staff.

He's well aware of Hazou's capabilities - low base combat stats, high versatility and AoE disruptive power - and, even without time to sculpt the mission force perfectly, wouldn't have given it the go-ahead at all if the existing Dog team had no answer to the incredibly common and predictable situation of "encountering an enemy Jounin or two."
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In a roll of 6d6, there is a 91% chance of having at least one jonin, 68% chance of at least 2, and 31% chance of at least 3. Hazo is being counted on to "make up the difference" in combat power, but that ought to refer to a gap in power between during massed combat because each 1 leopard matches 2 or 3 dog combatants.

If Cannai is counting on Hazo to make up the difference between the dogs' deadliest combatant and the leopards' deadliest then the quest is over.
 
Zampano said:
In a roll of 6d6, there is a 91% chance of having at least one jonin, 68% chance of at least 2, and 31% chance of at least 3. Hazo is being counted on to "make up the difference" in combat power, but that ought to refer to a gap in power between during massed combat because each 1 leopard matches 2 or 3 dog combatants.

If Cannai is counting on Hazo to make up the difference between the dogs' deadliest combatant and the leopards' deadliest then the quest is over.
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Well, on average it would be 4.5 d6, so maybe account for that? That said, Cannai should have accounted for running into a raiding party on the larger end of normal.
 
Regarding the new PS Stunt, I think Hazou should take it. Increasing PS means increasing Hazou's time dilation modifier which accelerates his XP gain and rate of effective research. In-universe it does seem pretty clearly demonstrated that +12 PS hits harder than +12 Sealing even for very high levels of Sealing - no Sealmaster has ever made time dilation seals to our knowledge, while Hazou as a moderately capable runemaster has already achieved that.

Sir Stompy said:
Apparently HAZOU is making up the missing combat power. I really hope that means it was a small amount of missing combat power.
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Zampano said:
In a roll of 6d6, there is a 91% chance of having at least one jonin, 68% chance of at least 2, and 31% chance of at least 3. Hazo is being counted on to "make up the difference" in combat power, but that ought to refer to a gap in power between during massed combat because each 1 leopard matches 2 or 3 dog combatants.

If Cannai is counting on Hazo to make up the difference between the dogs' deadliest combatant and the leopards' deadliest then the quest is over.
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Yup. What I'm saying is, given his demonstrated competence and the known individual deadliness of Leopards it would not be particularly in-character for Cannai to authorize the mission if it wasn't a relatively small amount of missing combat power... unlike the randomly encountered Leopards, Cannai had some control over the composition of the task force - even if far from perfect, at least enough to determine go/no go on obviously stupid force compositions. No one wants fewer Dogs dead than Cannai so why would he authorize a weak punitive force, tantamount to suicide for participants? The only possibilities are:

1) Cannai's intel on Leopard is completely misguided - he wildly underestimated their jounin %, etc, AND Cannai is overconfident enough to risk his very economically-valuable summoner and the lives of his beloved packmates on this very bad intel
2) Even Cannai's hastily-assembled force was pretty damn strong before Hazou got involved
 
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I mean, it seems like Cannai might have just overestimated Hazou's combat power? pretty reasonable, tbh.
Hear enough about Hazou traveling both paths, spearheading multiple save-the-world projects, staring down Essies, and inventing crazy shit, you start to assume he at least has 50s for combat stats.

Hazoupilot is maybe a bit of a doof for not correcting Cannai's assumption, but he was already asking to fight, and there really was no way to back out without seriously disappointing the big dog. Not saying it's optimal, but I get how this happened.
 
Rihaku said:
Regarding the new PS Stunt, I think Hazou should take it. Increasing PS means increasing Hazou's time dilation modifier which accelerates his XP gain and rate of effective research. In-universe it does seem pretty clearly demonstrated that +12 PS hits harder than +12 Sealing even for very high levels of Sealing - no Sealmaster has ever made time dilation seals to our knowledge, while Hazou as a moderately capable runemaster has already achieved that.
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It's probably worth wrapping up any lingering seals we have on the docket first (Banshee Lovers, Lightning Rod, Banshee Fuckers, the Lightning Emitter and Blocker from the Cloud jonin). Maybe the anti-fire jutsu seal array, but it's borderline unusable so maybe not.
 
Random thought:
What would it take to tweak shadow clone? Could we get ma/pa involved or no because opsec?

It's been stated many times that shadow clone isn't meant for training. What if we could make one that was?
 
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