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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Radvic said:
And for that matter, why didn't they just stick around and kill Jiraiya?
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Would killing Jiraiya be worth him killing one or more of them in return? If not, retreating was the smart move. I would give high probability the World's Greatest Sealmaster has an "I'm Taking Everyone With Me" suicide option, and all of his allies were now no longer a concern for blast radius.

Oneiros43 said:
Note akatsuki had no confirmed kills
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They killed all the ANBU members.
 
faflec said:
The 3KK (puppet) generates Iron Sand from inside its own body, and doesn't keep it stored on a gourd the way Gaara would. There's also the problem of Gaara having the ability to move sand on his own, something the 3KK puppet couldn't do. And he's supposed to be in the Hidden Village of Sand, which is in the middle of a desert.
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"Move sand on his own" meaning?
As for the theory in general, I don't think it's terribly likely, but it was worth mentioning.
 
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Inferno Vulpix said:
Statements like 'it's just increasing energy, it doesn't get much simpler than that' is using the wrong understanding of the term 'simple', and we can't expect statements based off of that kind of simplicity to be useful for estimating seal difficulty.
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Right, but it's also the case that I expect an "increase energy" seal to be seal-simpler than a "fuck with dimensions" seal.

Edit: as evidenced by the scene where Hazou asks Kei about summoning, Kei explains that it's really horribly difficult because it involves fucking with dimensions on purpose, and Hazou is like yeah okay that sounds really hard and dangerous.
 
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So with regard to XP, I think that good planning should get whatever arbitrary amount of XP is appropriate, as judged by the QMs, according to how good of a plan it is, but that shouldn't all be given to us at once; it should be dilineated gradually over whatever amount of days is appropriate, as XP already is. This allows QMs to reward us appropriately for exceptional short-term plans.

e: So for instance, Let the Bodies Hit the Floor would have awarded something like 10 XP a day for ten days (accounting for the baseline of 3 XP a day).
 
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@OliWhail @Velorien @eaglejarl
So guys we have been to lax in not providing new combat styles for our team. To fix that I propose this style for Noburi

Aero fighter: dex*2 Wits*2 Stamina*4

Through your training with skywalkers you have learned how to deliver attacks from unexpeceted avenues.
When making a melee combat action roll Aero Fighter + Tacmov vs opponents tacmov.
If successful add half tacmov to your combat roll. This bonus can not exceed aero fighter or your combat score.

Basically this is a just a modified version of Roki. Though it is less likely to succeed because combat specced Ninja are much more likely to have leveled tacmov in comparison to deception. It also has a higher attribute cost. One that is even harsher for Noburi do to the fact that he is not taijutsu or weapon specced. It also has the liability of if Kagome dies that there is no one who can provide him with the seals necessary to make this style work
 
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Oneiros43 said:
@OliWhail @Velorien @eaglejarl
So guys we have been to lax in not providing new combat styles for our team. To fix that I propose this style for Noburi

Aero fighter: dex*2 Wits*2 Stamina*4

Through your training with skywalkers you have learned how to deliver attacks from unexpeceted avenues.
When making a melee combat action roll Aero Fighter + Tacmov vs opponents tacmov.
If successful add half tacmov to your combat roll. This bonus can not exceed aero fighter or your combat score.

Basically this is a just a modified version of Roki. Though it is less likely to succeed because combat specced Ninja are much more likely to have leveled tacmov in comparison to deception. It also has a higher attribute cost. One that is even harsher for Noburi do to the fact that he is not taijutsu or weapon specced. It all has the liability of if Kagome dies that there is no one who can provide him with the seals necessary to make this style work
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I will note that I actually kind of like this style because it plays into the whole "Keep Away" fighting style that I support for Noburi, and that if he wants to go in to properly fight, he can open with Syrup Trap from a distance to make it easier for him to beat their Tac Move.
 
I notice I am confused.

Where do ANBU fit on the power scale? My intuition is that ANBU is essentially Jonin Covert Ops/Ninja Police.

Does the general power scale(not accounting for anomalies) go like:
Civilian, Genin, Chunin, Jonin/ANBU, S-Rank
or
Civilian, Genin, Chunin, Jonin, ANBU, S-Rank

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Also, tinfoil-Hokage-hat time. The person known as "Sarutobi Hiruzen" isn't dead. He just decided that his current identity was compromised, and decided that this mission was a good time to discard it.

(The idea of a conspiracy theorist making a Hokage-Hat out of tinfoil is amusing.)
 
Dissonance said:
I notice I am confused.

Where do ANBU fit on the power scale? My intuition is that ANBU is essentially Jonin Covert Ops/Ninja Police.

Does the general power scale(not accounting for anomalies) go like:
Civilian, Genin, Chunin, Jonin/ANBU, S-Rank
or
Civilian, Genin, Chunin, Jonin, ANBU, S-Rank

-----

Also, tinfoil-Hokage-hat time. The person known as "Sarutobi Hiruzen" isn't dead. He just decided that his current identity was compromised, and decided that this mission was a good time to discard it.

(The idea of a conspiracy theorist making a Hokage-Hat out of tinfoil is amusing.)
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More like Civilian, Academy Student, Genin :p

e: So I would like to note, for the record, that we now know about shadow clones in-character and we could put together their use for training.
 
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Cariyaga said:
So with regard to XP, I think that good planning should get whatever arbitrary amount of XP is appropriate, as judged by the QMs, according to how good of a plan it is, but that shouldn't all be given to us at once; it should be dilineated gradually over whatever amount of days is appropriate, as XP already is. This allows QMs to reward us appropriately for exceptional short-term plans.

e: So for instance, Let the Bodies Hit the Floor would have awarded something like 10 XP a day for ten days (accounting for the baseline of 3 XP a day).
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Not the point, actually. The current system is supposed to assign XP based mostly on [competence*time], not [challenge*competence], because it's trying to incentivize competence above finding big challenges and managing to survive them.
 
Kiba said:
His first priority is to find his son. Barring that, his next priority is to ensure that Leaf survive.
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Very probably correct. Also wrong priorities. As important as his godson is to him, he's still one boy--weighed against a village of 300,000 people, the village ought to be the higher priority. Yeah, I know, good luck convincing Jiraiya of that. Of course, it could be that his highest priority is finding Naruto because that's the best way to ensure Leaf's survival, considering that Naruto has got the Nine-Tails. In that case, the priorities are right--so long as Akatsuki hasn't taken the Nine-Tails.
 
Oneiros43 said:
This is a reason to ask The Hokage for a list of seals he can provide us. We all ready changed warfare in the woods with scraps. We can probably do it again
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Lovely, but don't ask him for anything until he's slept. Right now, he's emotionally compromised and physically exhausted. Go out on the mission and contact him later via summon-messenger.

In general, it seems like Akatsuki is insanely overpowered in this version. That means that Leaf cannot seriously challenge them unless it can somehow make them all dead pretty much instantly. That, in turn, will not happen with any form of conventional warfare--it requires new tech, or old tech newly applied. There's no time and resources to build new tech, so it's got to be old tech newly applied. This sounds like Hazo needs to go full munchkin.

So, I'd favor taking the mission, only requesting that Hazo be permitted to go into seclusion to do his munchkin thing, as the best way to forward Jiraiya's goals.

[X] Yes, Hokage-Sama, and ask for Hazo to be set up with munchkin facilities. Perhaps in the Nara compound? (The request should be made in the morning via summon-messenger. Never ask an enraged and exhausted Hokage-Sama-seal-master for anything.)
 
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Raxner said:
Lovely, but don't ask him for anything until he's slept. Right now, he's emotionally compromised and physically exhausted. Go out on the mission and contact him later via summon-messenger.

In general, it seems like Akatsuki is insanely overpowered in this version. That means that Leaf cannot seriously challenge them unless it can somehow make them all dead pretty much instantly. That, in turn, will not happen with any form of conventional warfare--it requires new tech, or old tech newly applied. There's no time and resources to build new tech, so it's got to be old tech newly applied. This sounds like Hazo needs to go full munchkin.

So, I'd favor taking the mission, only requesting that Hazo be permitted to go into seclusion to do his munchkin thing, as the best way to forward Jiraiya's goals.

[X] Yes, Hokage-Sama, and ask for Hazo to be set up with munchkin facilities. Perhaps in the Nara compound? (The request should be made in the morning via summon-messenger. Never ask an enraged and exhausted Hokage-Sama-seal-master for anything.)
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Keep in mind that Jiraiya was handling two Akatsuki members at the same time, and was winning. He injured both of them and wasn't noticeably injured as he returned, which implies even after multi-combatant bonus Jiraiya was still better than them.

And while Jiraiya's at the top of the heap for talent, he's not the only one there. Leaf alone has at least Tsunade and Kakashi, probably more, who are of comparable strength to Jiraiya, and Leaf will very likely draw on its allies and even enemies in a coalition a la Whirlpool.

Akatsuki's being smart this time around, and in this case that meant they waited until many of the heavy hitters were down (Hiruzen, Zabuza, Mei) and the rest were exhausted, and sprung an ambush. Them being smart makes fighting them a bigger challenge, but they aren't going to chew through S-ranks like butter, and a coalition against them will definitely have comparable firepower.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Keep in mind that Jiraiya was handling two Akatsuki members at the same time, and was winning...

And while Jiraiya's at the top of the heap for talent, he's not the only one there. Leaf alone has at least Tsunade and Kakashi...

Akatsuki's being smart this time around...
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I wasn't aware that Kakashi is comparable to the Sannin. Is that the general impression? I note that in the edited canon, he's the one who was injured and told to retreat before the Akatsuki even showed up, for whatever that's worth.

I note that of the two Akatsuki that Jiraiya fought, he only identifies one as S-Rank. He did specifically note that there were a bunch of chuunin amongst the Akatsuki forces--it is possible that his second opponent was only a chuunin.

However, the overall strength of Akatsuki must be judged by their numbers and levels of S-rankers, not chuunin. It doesn't mean anything that Jiraiya and other jonin and S-rankers can kill chuunin if the S-rank Akatsukis then step in and stomp them.

I agree that Akatsuki was being smart, and that makes them more terrifying, not less. Bottom line, Leaf is now down the God of Shinobi, the Nine-Tail jinchuuriki, and a whole bunch of Anbu. Even if Jiraiya and a few others like him are as strong as the best Akatsuki's got one-for-one, it is probably that Akatsuki has the advantage.

But let's assume that an all-out Leaf assault could defeat Akatsuki. It's possible. Is that any reason not be smart? Putting Hazo on front-line duty is just a waste; he's chuunin-level at best, and will die very quickly when and if he ends up fighting an Akatsuki S-ranker. Maybe he'll get lucky and give the guy a scratch in return.

Put him on munchkining, and there's a chance he'll come up with something revolutionary and unexpected, something that allows Leaf to put Akatsuki down like a pack of rabid dogs.
 
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Raxner said:
I wasn't aware that Kakashi is comparable to the Sannin. Is that the general impression? I note that in the edited canon, he's the one who was injured and told to retreat before the Akatsuki even showed up, for whatever that's worth.

I note that of the two Akatsuki that Jiraiya fought, he only identifies one as S-Rank. He did specifically note that there were a bunch of chuunin amongst the Akatsuki forces--it is possible that his second opponent was only a chuunin.

However, the overall strength of Akatsuki must be judged by their numbers and levels of S-rankers, not chuunin. It doesn't mean anything that Jiraiya and other jonin and S-rankers can kill chuunin if the S-rank Akatsukis then step in and stomp them.

I agree that Akatsuki was being smart, and that makes them more terrifying, not less. Bottom line, Leaf is now down the God of Shinobi, the Nine-Tail jinchuuriki, and a whole bunch of Anbu. Even if Jiraiya and a few others like him are as strong as the best Akatsuki's got one-for-one, it is probably that Akatsuki has the advantage.

But let's assume that an all-out Leaf assault could defeat Akatsuki. It's possible. Is that any reason not be smart? Putting Hazo on front-line duty is just a waste; he's chuunin-level at best, and will die very quickly when and if he ends up fighting an Akatsuki S-ranker. Maybe he'll get lucky and give the guy a scratch in return.

Put him on munchkining, and there's a chance he'll come up with something revolutionary and unexpected, something that allows Leaf to put Akatsuki down like a pack of rabid dogs.
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Kakashi, as far as I know, wasn't even in this fight. He might've been one of the ANBU who died, but Naruto's Jounin-sensei was Nakamura, who to my knowledge doesn't exist in canon. What I do know, however, is that in canon Kakashi was strong enough to fight members of Akatsuki directly (the wiki says he's the one who kills Kakuzu) and that he became the Sixth Hokage after Tsunade.

Jiraiya faced down Sasori and Konan, both of whom are S-rank in canon. I also think that under current multi-combatant rules if Konan were a Chuunin Jiraiya would've outright killed her instead of only being able to injure her.

And yeah, we want Hazou munchkinning instead of on the front lines, and if we get another good force multiplier it might even make the difference, but as it stands I don't think Akatsuki is out of Leaf's league, especially if Leaf spearheads a coalition of the major villages, since the number of S-rank nin would then be on our side. Akatsuki made a very good showing of itself at the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny, but they had the ability to wait until both sides were depleted and even then all they attempted was a smash-and-grab, even if they did it flawlessly.
 
I'm unsure of how much Jiraiya trusts the Nara. They seem imminently reasonable, both Shikaku and as a whole, but we have not known them for nearly long enough to judge that.
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faflec said:
[X] Action Plan: Leaf Leaf

  • General policies:
    • Refer to Jiraiya as Hokage-sama unless he says otherwise.
    • Minami is our squad leader. We defer to her plans, but give well thought-out advice (i.e., the plan).
      • That being said, don't overburden her with too much information.

  • Some quick things for Hokage-sama before he goes to bed.
    • Do we have authorization to use Skywalkers for speed/stealth purposes?
    • Ask permission to speak about the recent meeting in front of Minami/Akane.
      • Ask for some details on the Bird Summon such that the Pangolins can more quickly find and deliver said information to Leaf.
        • Jiraiya can delegate the information to Nakamura if needed (pretty sure Nakamura was still there).

  • Talk with Minami and Akane
    • Do this while we're moving to get gear/prep.
    • Trade intel on general abilities/seals/protocols.
      • Make note of how we use Noburi's bloodline to boost our border crossings with chakra (without the risk of running out).
      • (If authorized) Brief Minami on Skywalkers.
      • Learn of if Akane has learned any new techniques in our absence, etc.

  • Do things (split up to do this):
    • Get/make:
      • Kunai & shuriken.
      • Rations.
      • Seal-quality paper and ink(stones).
      • Specialized things:
        • Water supply (for Noburi's jutsu).
        • Macerator payloads:
          • Very fragrant things, ideally very fargrant oils for scent bombs. Something that clings to people would be best.
          • Some irritants (like pepper or chillis) for irritant bombs.
          • Very fine ash or talk for smoke bombs.
          • Iron that we can heat for a flash-bang.
            • We can superheat iron ourselves using Elemental Mastery if a smithy is unavailable.
            • Alternatively we just do this when visiting some village with a blacksmith.
        • Portable Skybase.
        • Make Skywalkers (if authorized).
    • Ask Keiko if she should send a Pangolin messenger (contracted to her) to the Toad Clan using the Summoning Realm.
      • Have we already done this?
      • Reasons for this:
        • Would allow Keiko to summon the messenger to give updates to the Toad Clan, and therefore to Jiraiya.
        • Would allow Jiraiya to send messages to the messenger through the Toad Clan, and therefore to Keiko.
        • Grants rapid communications between Konoha and our team after the 10 day travel time.
      • If yes, tell Mari-sensei so Konoha knows about it.

  • Talk to Mari.
    • Make sure she knows we still love her.
    • Give her a hug.
    • Thank her for everything.
    • Promise her we'll come back.
    • Tell her to make friends and be happy.
    • What else?

  • Leave Leaf.
    • Defer to the Hokage and head to Rivers first.
    • Use Skywalkers if authorized.
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--- Maybe be better to refer to him as sir? He might not like the reminder so immediately.
--- We need the deets on Akane, too.
 
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Inferno Vulpix said:
And yeah, we want Hazou munchkinning instead of on the front lines, and if we get another good force multiplier it might even make the difference, but as it stands I don't think Akatsuki is out of Leaf's league, especially if Leaf spearheads a coalition of the major villages, since the number of S-rank nin would then be on our side. Akatsuki made a very good showing of itself at the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny, but they had the ability to wait until both sides were depleted and even then all they attempted was a smash-and-grab, even if they did it flawlessly.
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I think preventing the Elemental Nations from imploding is the most important thing that Jiraiya can do, next to rescuing Naruto. The Third Mizukage's death is...acceptable, given that he's the douchebag who was in the process of trying to start a war, but I wouldn't necessarily say no to cooperating with the Mizukage to defeat the Akatsuki in the fourth shinobi world war.
 
Kiba said:
I think preventing the Elemental Nations from imploding is the most important thing that Jiraiya can do, next to rescuing Naruto. The Third Mizukage's death is...acceptable, given that he's the douchebag who was in the process of trying to start a war, but I wouldn't necessarily say no to cooperating with the Mizukage to defeat the Akatsuki in the fourth shinobi world war.
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Keep in mind there's a solid chance the (acting) 4th Mizukage is our aunt. I don't see how we can cooperate with her without imploding Mist. The moment it leaks that the Kurosawa's (apparently) neglected and drove a sealing prodigy into enemy hands...

I'm not awake yet--thought she was chief diplomat
 
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