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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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We could easily make cannons. Just carve a barrel out of wood, 5SB it, put an explosive seal and some storage seals filled with inert gas in, and then a cannon ball.

You explode the seals, the gas creates pressure, and the cannon ball gets shot out the barrel.
 
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MadScientist said:
We could easily make cannons. Just carve a barrel out of wood, 5SB it, put some a explosive seal and some storage seals filled with inert gas in, and then a cannon ball.

You explode the seals, the gas creates pressure, and the cannon ball gets shot out the barrel.
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Well, sure, but those are good for siege, not combat.
 
I'm under the impression that seal-based long-ranged artillery could very easily be one of those game-changing weapons Jiraiya told us not to do.
 
MadScientist said:
TBF, a "spray yellow acid" seal does sound pretty cool.

Edit: at least until the chakra construct atoms dissapear and you end up with the rest of the molecules they made via reactions being turned into radicals.
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No, to be honest that still sounds pretty cool.
HoratioVonBecker said:
Well, it depends on the ninjutsu - wait, you were actually talking about Ranged Combat.
Doylist Answer: No, it makes the system vastly uglier. Watsonian Answer: At standard Taijutsu ranges, modern ninja are actually trained to catch kunai and shuriken, and using them in close quarters effectively makes up a large part of the Academy style. (Particularly for short people, like everyone on Team Uplift except Kagome and Akane.)
It also has the neat side effect of making 'a decent supply of Standard Ninja Tools' a significant advantage to any non-jutsu specialist, if not actually necessary - I really don't see range specialists not being taught to find and throw stones if they run out of blades.
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Wait, I forgot to tag the QMs. @eaglejarl, @Velorien, @OliWhail, just a bit of mechanics fluff.
 
Cariyaga said:
Yeah. I mean, in general, the bullets could serve as a seal delivery method.
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Oh, you meant attach it to the bullet. Would the Macerator seal be small enough to put on the bullet, and would the seal survive the blast from the explosion? I'm thinking no for both cases. A Macerator might work for artillery since you'd have a larger projectile, but I'm not so sure about a gun.
 
Cariyaga said:
Yeah, so we check with him before we try anything with them. ...I mean, unless we need to on the mission. Needs must and all that.
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Velorien said:
"Any explosives 'big enough to change warfare', you forget right now. Scrub them out of your mind. If we could trust the Yamanaka to do it, I'd ask them this minute, but they would quite rightly think it was safer to kill you instead. Think for a second about the kind of people who would want that technology. Enemy agents. Hostile factions, domestic and foreign, who'd want to hold villages to ransom as leverage. Oh, and those wacky ninja who want to end the world. Those pop up every now and again.
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You'd think that we'd learn our lesson from the last time...
 
Canons aren't a threat to civilisation in the way nukes are. If you use a nuke you can destroy a whole society. If you use a canon, you can damage a single fortification, and not as much as if you'd used high-level ninjutsu.
 
MadScientist said:
We could easily make cannons. Just carve a barrel out of wood, 5SB it, put an explosive seal and some storage seals filled with inert gas in, and then a cannon ball.

You explode the seals, the gas creates pressure, and the cannon ball gets shot out the barrel.
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Actually, Storage Seals which don't have enough room to dispense when unsealed exhibit Undefined Behaviour. Just use some chainfire explosive tags. (Which is a feature of standard explosive tags, or else the scene where the team digs themselves out of the cave in Mountain makes very little sense.)
 
MadScientist said:
Canons aren't a threat to civilisation in the way nukes are. If you use a nuke you can destroy a whole society. If you use a canon, you can damage a single fortification, and not as much as if you'd used high-level ninjutsu.
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I'm imagining artillery more than cannons. Because we could totally make those work.

Also, Skybase artillery.
 
To be honest, cannons are unlikely to change ninja warfare much at all. Ninjutsu provides excellent cannons. What would change is if we have long range accuracy. Unfortunately, that's a very difficult problem to solve, which I don't currently see anything aside from hack (read: probably not going to work) solutions.
 
HoratioVonBecker said:
Actually, Storage Seals which don't have enough room to dispense when unsealed exhibit Undefined Behaviour. Just use some chainfire explosive tags. (Which is a feature of standard explosive tags, or else the scene where the team digs themselves out of the cave in Mountain makes very little sense.)
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Ah, but gases can compress. Which means that any amount of space, even the tiny gaps between the seal and the cannonball should be enough space to unseal into.
 
Jello_Raptor said:
I suspect laser-like techniques are the way to go.
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I've actually had this thought myself, and if we're arriving at it independently that ups my estimation of its efficacy. I don't care what S-Rank bullshit you have; doesn't matter if we can just dump enough energy at the target to turn their entire body into high energy particle physics. Maybe not lasers per se, but directed plasma weapons? Something like this comes to mind.

We need:
  • Two-sided storage seal. Put something in one end and pull it out the other.
  • A 5-sided box of Force Walls (one face open). Something that approximates a paraboloid would be closer to ideal, but I think this works?
And then it's just a matter of figuring out a time-efficient charging mechanism to store enough energy in the seal. Minimal engineering necessary; just point and fire.
 
Vecht said:
I've actually had this thought myself, and if we're arriving at it independently that ups my estimation of its efficacy. I don't care what S-Rank bullshit you have; doesn't matter if we can just dump enough energy at the target to turn their entire body into high energy particle physics. Maybe not lasers per se, but directed plasma weapons? Something like this comes to mind.

We need:
  • Two-sided storage seal. Put something in one end and pull it out the other.
  • A 5-sided box of Force Walls (one face open). Something that approximates a paraboloid would be closer to ideal, but I think this works?
And then it's just a matter of figuring out a time-efficient charging mechanism to store enough energy in the seal. Minimal engineering necessary; just point and fire.
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How would we defend against that though? We have to remember Shikaku's advice.

Regular guns? (which we apparently can do with what we already have) We can defend against that as we've got real world examples of ways to mitigate guns. Directed energy weapons? Doesn't seem like we could.
 
Enjou said:
How would we defend against that though? We have to remember Shikaku's advice.

Regular guns? (which we apparently can do with what we already have) We can defend against that as we've got real world examples of ways to mitigate guns. Directed energy weapons? Doesn't seem like we could.
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I already thought of a defence for that: Nadir Seals.

Massively dampens all energy (sans chemical because that gets messy) in radius.

Opposite of a Zenith Seal, which massively amplifies all energy in radius.
 
MadScientist said:
Are we actually going to make high-energy particle guns?

Because while I'm totally down for that, we may need to teach Hazou some more physics first.
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We don't want Hazō to end up dying to invisible Gamma rays, right?

Enjou said:
How would we defend against that though? We have to remember Shikaku's advice.

Regular guns? (which we apparently can do with what we already have) We can defend against that as we've got real world examples of ways to mitigate guns. Directed energy weapons? Doesn't seem like we could.
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You don't defend against rifles as so much as design your entire warfare doctrine around it.

Don't forget that there are more soft means of revolutionizing the battlefield, such as telecommunication via radiowaves.
 
MadScientist said:
I already thought of a defence for that: Nadir Seals.

Massively dampens all energy (sans chemical because that gets messy) in radius.

Opposite of a Zenith Seal, which massively amplifies all energy in radius.
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This presumes these seals are possible, and we wouldn't die horribly in the process of making them. And we couldn't use our supposed energy weapon until we've made these anyways, because we wouldn't want anyone else figuring out a similar weapon from our example without us having a counter.


Kiba said:
We don't want Hazō to end up dying to invisible Gamma rays, right?
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No we don't. Let's stick to guns for now, shall we?
 
Kiba said:
You don't defend against rifles as so much as design your entire warfare doctrine around it.

Don't forget that there are more soft means of revolutionizing the battlefield, such as telecommunication via radiowaves.
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The immediate problem that rifles solve is "how can we chunin kill Akatsuki without dying or treating Naruto as an acceptable casualty".
The eventual problem is "how do we prevent literally all the hidden villages from falling apart when this becomes widespread".
 
Enjou said:
This presumes these seals are possible, and we wouldn't die horribly in the process of making them. And we couldn't use our supposed energy weapon until we've made these anyways, because we wouldn't want anyone else figuring out a similar weapon from our example without us having a counter.
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All seals possible, but some are too hard to do right now.

J could probably make them and not die horribly.

Then lets add them to our to-do list, so we can use energy weapons.
 
MadScientist said:
All seals possible, but some are too hard to do right now.

J could probably make them and not die horribly.

Then lets add them to our to-do list, so we can use energy weapons.
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Possible doesn't mean they're something even Jiraiya could do. I mean, something that decreases all possible types of energy except that generated by chemical processes seems like it'd be really complex, and also likely to result in a lot of mishaps during the research process.

So, really, can't we just focus on guns since we know they're possible with what we have and aren't too hard to mitigate?
 
I know there are a lot of questions outstanding, including @HoratioVonBecker's mechanics suggestions. Could y'all please add them to the bottom of this doc: Player knowledge so that we don't lose track? For the mechanics ideas, please just put in a descriptive phrase and a link. ("new combat mechanics <link>")
 
Enjou said:
Possible doesn't mean they're something even Jiraiya could do. I mean, something that decreases all possible types of energy except that generated by chemical processes seems like it'd be really complex, and also likely to result in a lot of mishaps during the research process.
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Sounds really simple to me. Y'know, compared to things like storing items in extra-dimensional pockets, or making harmless black fire that sounds like the screams of the damned.
 
MadScientist said:
Sounds really simple to me. Y'know, compared to things like storing items in extra-dimensional pockets, or making harmless black fire that sounds like the screams of the damned.
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Wait that was -- I didn't even -- bahahahah!

e:
eaglejarl said:
I know there are a lot of questions outstanding, including @HoratioVonBecker's mechanics suggestions. Could y'all please add them to the bottom of this doc: Player knowledge so that we don't lose track? For the mechanics ideas, please just put in a descriptive phrase and a link. ("new combat mechanics <link>")
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Added mine and Vecht's proposed mechanics for Macerators and Banshees.
 
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