[X] Flower Plan: Ask Ino for Advice

Because Ino knows how things work (especially in the MfD-verse) a lot better than we do.

That umm, isn't exactly what my plan does.

[X] Flower Plan: Ask Ino for Advice
  • Ask Ino for advice on what flowers to get Akane.
  • Get Akane Red, Yellow, and Light Pink Roses anyway.
  • Get Ino the flowers she suggested we get Akane.

I suggest voting for something like the following:

[] Flower Plan: Actually Ask Ino for Advice.
  • Ask Ino for advice on what flowers to get Akane.
  • Attempt to guide her towards things that are youthful, powerful, related to fire, and indicate caring, but not sexual desire.
    • Don't use things that rule out future sexual desire. We're just kids, there's time for that stuff later if we're both into it.
  • Get Akane the flowers Ino recommends.
 
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That umm, isn't exactly what my plan does.



I suggest voting for something like the following:

[] Flower Plan: Actually Ask Ino for Advice.
  • Ask Ino for advice on what flowers to get Akane.
  • Attempt to guide her towards things that are youthful, powerful, related to fire, and indicate caring, but not sexual desire.
    • Don't use things that rule out future sexual desire. We're just kids, there's time for that stuff later if we're both into it.
  • Get Akane the flowers Ino recommends.
Huh, somehow I managed to miss your plan. Thanks for pointing this out.

After looking at both this and the ask Ino and Mari plan, they both sound like poor plans, because they assume that real-world (Western?) flower culture actually applies to the MfD universe. For all we know, the flowers that we're suggesting in thread mean "We hate you" or "We have strong sexual desire for you."
 
Thanks for coming up with this plan, @Radvic :)
I figure I owe the thread like, 10 action plans as a result of that one fiasco :p

Hey all, I've gone ahead and fixed a time for the SF meetup: 4pm on Sunday Dec 11th. See the post below for more details. I expect 3-4 people, but anyone is welcome to join us.



Edit: Obligatory /r/rational post.
Looks like fun. If geography changes and Montana comes closer to San Fransisco, I'll be there (or dead from the earthquake), but at this point, I don't expect to make it.

[X] Flower Plan: Red, Yellow, and Light Pink Roses
Wikipedia suggests this would convey a combination of "Joy, happiness and excitement" and "Desire, passion, joy of life, youth, energy". "Desire" is somewhat problematic but whatever, I understand we have a number of Hakane shippers in the thread.
Seems fine. Though I kinda like fire of the forest. Honestly, I don't care that much, just think it'd be fun to get her something with personal significance that we determined ourselves.
Omygawd, @Radvic, are you gonna take that? :p
*hurries off to update action plan*
If we give her flame-of-the-forest: mini-speech about how flames can be strong and beautiful even when confined, how spring always follows winter, etc. (Basically, 'We're all so lucky to have felt the warmth of your inner flame, and we'll feel that way no matter what. Don't let the hospital blues get you down. We'll figure out what you can do while you're stuck here, and when you get out you'll be better than ever.')
Ok, now I have a stake in what flower we get her.
Key draw for me is games night/increased socialization. If something like that were added to ducks in a row I would change vote.
Technically, that was in there. I've made it a little more explicit. But one of the things I'm trying to do in my plan (and maybe or maybe not succeeding), is make it less overly perscriptive. My idea is that the QMs might take out their frustration on us limiting their writing by giving Hazou mental breakdowns, it more easily lets us use his diplomacy and deception dice, and it's easier for more people to understand.
Kabuto realization - additional path besides noticing Mari/Keiko/Kagome's reactions: Hazou's a ninja, and they don't live long by assuming everything's as rosy as they'd like it to be.
  1. Akane's going to be okay, right? It's going to be okay? That's what the doctor said...isn't it?
  2. Hold on, "I never give precise estimates"? A recovery time measured in months? That's not too great, is it? If anything can happen, and all... And if it weren't The Amazing Dr. Yakushi, The Guy Who's Definitely Saved Akane, saying it, wouldn't it sound an awful lot like a threat?
Hmm... Seems legit. I've added it to Ducks.

I also lifted @Dictator4Hire's library reading list and put it in the plan. Here's the current plan.
[] Action Plan: Ducks in a Row
We're a little lacking in purpose in our actions in Konoha. Let's double down on helping out Jiraiya, encourage our teammates (especailly Akane), go to a library, and continue making nice with Konoha.

Goals
  1. Survive
  2. Reduce stress on team
  3. Make sure we're all on the same page
  4. Make an explicit overall plan for our time in Konoha
  5. Maintain cover and pleasantries
  6. Progress plot lines (Jiraiya, Kabuto, Akane)
Methods
  1. Reflect upon the day
    1. We need to be more careful about what we say: we've insulted several people (e.g. Jiraiya, our minders, Keiko, Noburi).
    2. We maybe should be more careful around the doctor: Inoue seemed suspicious of him, and she's good at this sort of thing.
    3. Akane's going to be okay, right? It's going to be okay? That's what the doctor said...isn't it?
      1. Hold on, "I never give precise estimates"? A recovery time measured in months? That's not too great, is it? If anything can happen, and all... And if it weren't The Amazing Dr. Yakushi, The Guy Who's Definitely Saved Akane, saying it, wouldn't it sound an awful lot like a threat?
  2. Debriefing session
    1. Ask about if we'd like to make a tower prototype with Jiraiya for more rewards/monies/privacy (Hazou's cool with it)
    2. Discuss with Kagome things that'd make him more at ease (e.g. whittling, painting, cooking)
    3. Ask if people have good de-stressing strategies we could use (then use them).
    4. Ask for Inoue's opinion on all our interactions (since she's the best at this).
    5. Determine team policy on bloodline experimentation: we should all be on the same page (Hazou is ok with observations: primary concern is safety)
  3. Next day, play nice with Team Asume -- follow up on conversations, do things they enjoy (eating, shopping), invite them to play strategy games that night.
  4. See about purchasing a pack or something to hide Noburi's barrel
  5. Check up on Akane, attempt to encourage her
    1. Remind her of the good times we have
      1. Beach episode
      2. Games
      3. Sparring
    2. Remind her of the times she's done really well
      1. Compliment her construction of the towers that let us find Arikada
      2. Compliment her demolition of the zombies --> she did better than we did
      3. The times she's been positive: she's been a huge encouragement to Hazou
    3. Point out things we have to look forward to
      1. She can see her family and other friends again!
      2. We can work more closely with Leaf now.
      3. We've stopped Arikada from doing more harm in the world!
    4. Give her flowers and explain our reasoning behind them.
  6. Go to the library for research
    1. Everyone scans what is and is not available so that we have a list of what we can and cannot read about for the next update
        1. Spoiler: Passive things to do while in the library
          • If one of the topics listed below is not available proceed to the next in line.
            1. If one character completes their assigned suggested reading, have them collect books for the other team members and then peruse topics that personally interest them or chat with the handlers as is appropriate in such an establishment: quietly.
          • If we are asked why we want to go to a library, truthfully reply that we never had the chance to learn for the sake of learning before and that we are eager to complete our non-combat educations. Having the chance to relax and improve ourselves at the same time is a rare treat for people in our positions and we want to take full advantage of the opportunity. We won't be idle, but we won't be physically exerting ourselves for the first time in months: perfect.
          • Maintain our disguises (w/e they are) as we read and keep them on until we are safe back at our designated accommodations.
      1. Hazou reads about engineering and natural laws with an emphasis on mathematics, physics, chakra laws, rationality (gotta go meta), and lastly abstract thinking.
        1. Spoiler: Hazou specifics
          • What is the "Inumura diffusion" and how can it help our education as well as our seal craft?
            • Ask Kagome about this to see if he is familiar with it
          • Learning about buoyancy would help us if we ever want to make something lighter than air.
      2. Keiko researches law (particularly in relating to missing-nin as well as basic ninja protocol (if she gets snippy tell her to compare and contrast Mist methods with Leaf's since we need to fix any potential culture gap issues immediately)), economics/logistics (i.e. the basics of trade, how merchants operate, prices of goods, etc.), and international history plus politics
        1. Spoiler: Keiko specifics
          • Basically, suggest to her that we don't ever want to have a mistake like we had in Hot Springs again where we didn't realize that ninjas from two different countries would work together to maintain the security of a DMZ.
          • If we have time, ask her to look into laws related to re-instating missing-nin or the process by which a village can (for lack of a better word) adopt missing-nin into a village so that hunter-nin won't bother us anymore.
            1. Are there any cases where this has happened before? How did they do it if it happened?
      3. Noburi studies up on his medical knowledge by reading about physiology, how chakra works in the human body, and biology in general.
        1. Spoiler: Noburi specifics
          • While he looks for his books, suggest to him that he should try to ingratiate himself with our Leaf minders to get to know them better.
            1. Even if he fails his rolls it's not like they are going to murder him for putting his foot in his mouth.
          • If he has time he can also look into chemistry and then persuasion.
      4. Mari does as she pleases as per usual, but discretely suggest she look into psychology/counseling if she wants to continue to help Keiko with her problems.
        1. Spoiler: Mari specifics Also suggest to her to watch over Kagome as he will be excessively stressed due to not having any weapons in a ninja city. "I realize this may be obvious, but just in case..."
      5. Kagome, if he can be persuaded to do so (and our handlers allow it), should look into works by sealing masters just to see what he may have missed out on in his years of isolation. If he does not have access to anything worthwhile to him, have him look into survivalist literature or forensics so that he can improve the team's overall stealth.
        1. Spoiler: Kagome specifics
          • Challenge him to see if he can spot any flaws in the published works and remind him that one day, again if he so desires, he may have his works published in an establishment just like this alongside the greats of sealing.
          • If sealing is unavailable or gets exhausted, suggest he look into cryptology or something to help him relax, like books about his hobbies (i.e. woodcarving).
      6. Hazou asks permission to pick up some reading material for Akane too, consisting of more engineering materials as well as mechanics/machinery, trap-making, inventing and the latest no-chakra-involved inventions in Konoha, and some light reading like canon's "Tales of a Gutsy Ninja".
        1. Spoiler: Akane Specifics undefined Spoiler: Library specifics At the local reading center, suggest to each member of the team to do the following:
  7. Meet up with Jiraiya for rewards discussion
  8. Encourage Noburi on his internship (he gets to learn from the best, cool! Still be careful though.)
Contingencies
  1. Be polite to everyone
  2. Follow handler's instructions to the letter (and spirit)
  3. Minimize Kagome's interactions with people, be prepared to stop conflicts
  4. Make sure Inoue has a colored jutsu for signaling for help
  5. If combat breaks out, end update
  6. If talking to Hokage, trust Inoue
Plan Updates:
  • Additional Kabuto realization
  • Tell Akane significance behind whatever flowers we get her
  • Library specifics
  • Explicitly invite Team Asuna to play strategy games
 
[X] Action Plan: Trees Bearing Fruit
[-] Action Plan: Ducks in a Row

After reading both plans, Trees Bearing Fruit appears to be the better one to me. It is more thorough and has more contingencies.

And for a flower plan:
[X] Flower Plan: Actually ask Ino AND Mari for help, and go with it.
- If they disagree, use our best judgement to work out a compromise.

Because Ino and Mari know how things work (especially in the MfD-verse) a lot better than we do.

Just an FYI. You don't need to edit your post. Just make a new post subtracting your changes.

We've not had an instance yet of someone using an edit to sneak in a plan, but creating plans with edits is frowned upon for that reason. At least when the edit is more than a posts behind the current comment.
 
Just an FYI. You don't need to edit your post. Just make a new post subtracting your changes.

We've not had an instance yet of someone using an edit to sneak in a plan, but creating plans with edits is frowned upon for that reason. At least when the edit is more than a posts behind the current comment.
Thanks for the advice.

[See, this is why I've been lurking for the past 11 months. Too many unwritten rules and not enough real life time to figure them out]
 
[x] Flower Plan: Actually Ask Ino and Mari for Advice.

Same as "[] Flower Plan: Actually Ask Ino for Advice. ", plus asking Mari for advice on what flowers to get Akane, since Mari (a) knows Akane and (b) is less likely to let her shippiness influence our decision. She likes to tease us, but I trust her to not sabotage something that's actually important (namely Akane's recovery).

Clearly, we cannot have too many plans.

[See, this is why I've been lurking for the past 11 months. Too many unwritten rules and not enough real life time to figure them out]

For what it's worth, I jumped in head first, made some mistakes, got corrected, and all was well. The thread won't spare your feelings when you say stupid things, but they'll judge your current post on its merits and not based off of previous mistakes. I really appreciate both, especially the former, because it gives you room to make rookie mistakes without endangering the quest.
 
@Radvic: If we're going to the library, do you mind swinging by a bookstore first? I'd like see if they have books we can buy (since we can't check stuff out of the library), and get some supplies for taking notes. There's no point being all secretive when it doesn't get us anything.
  • Go to a bookstore first
    • Get any books sealing and technique hacking that they sell, at least those that are more tutorial than history.
    • Get primers on glassworking, metallurgy, woodworking, and other practical construction crafts if they are available.
    • If they happen to sell any technique scrolls grab a few that ight be useful.
    • If there are fun books Akane might enjoy buy some of those. Comics would be perfect since they're low cognitive effort ways to spend time.
    • Get some paper and writing equipment for taking notes in the library. Distribute them to all team members, for use in the library.
  • In the library
    • Take notes as you search for things.
    • Allow any of Sarutobi's team to look at them if they wish.
    • There's no point being secretive when we can get what we want by playing with our cards face up.
      • Don't take notes about things you actually want to hide that you figured out/know, duh.
Edit: Yes I know there's a low probability of them having some of these things. We lose nothing by checking for them though.
 
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Technically, that was in there. I've made it a little more explicit. But one of the things I'm trying to do in my plan (and maybe or maybe not succeeding), is make it less overly perscriptive. My idea is that the QMs might take out their frustration on us limiting their writing by giving Hazou mental breakdowns, it more easily lets us use his diplomacy and deception dice, and it's easier for more people to understand.

I can get behind that logic.

[-] Action Plan: Trees Bearing Fruit
[X] Action Plan: Ducks in a Row
 
I can get behind that logic.
I have a very hard time getting behind that logic, since in the previous plan where we failed to include the 'don't trust any Leaf nin who aren't Akane' contingency, Hazou went and spilled team secrets to fucking Kabuto, and when we didn't explicitly include 'give akane her flowers', he somehow forgot them.
 
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[X] Flower Plan: Actually ask Ino AND Mari for help, and go with it.

Because I find the idea of getting Ino flowers a bad one. We're not trying to go for the Harem ending, are we?
 
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[X] Action Plan: Trees Bearing Fruit
[X] Flower Plan: Actually Ask Ino AND Mari for Advice
 
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[X] Flower Plan: Actually ask Ino AND Mari for help, and go with it.

Because I find the idea of getting Ino flowers a bad one. We're not trying to go for the Harem ending, are we?

Nope, my goal is to just prank her and Mari in return for all their teasing. Let them be the butt of the joke for once.

I figure it's something Hazou would be happy to do, especially since a number of us in thread find the teasing annoying. And what, it's not like she's going to hate us for getting her flowers as a joke. Neither Mari nor Ino are attracted to us, and we're not attracted to them. We can just explain what happened afterwards (in an appropriately gloating fashion) and laugh it off.

We do actually care about Akane though, and she seems like the sort who will appreciate a heartfelt gesture from us. Rather than something that's been obsessively optimized and focus grouped.
 
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@eaglejarl On the subject of updates to counterbot, I'd suggest making sure to differentiate between against votes for action plans, training plans, etc.
 
[X] Flower Plan: Butea Monosperma
[X] Flower Plan: Ask Ino for advice

Post with updated plan inbound.

I feel kind of bad saying this, because we kind of proved we can't this past update with Kabuto.
Accounted for (by removing the line in question, but keeping the reassurance)

That's colored jutsu, which none of the genin have.
Added asking about this.

Determine team policy on bloodline experimentation: we should all be on the same page (Hazou is ok with observations: primary concern is safety)
Have stolen this and added it to the secure discussion section.

Encourage Noburi on his internship (he gets to learn from the best, cool! Still be careful though.)
Also added to secure discussion.

She is literally months away
Note that this is according to someone with an incentive to keep us in Leaf as long as possible. She may be much better off than that.

I think we need a few even less stressful topics than these ones, talking about one of these per visit might be the limit. It will take a good while to Akane to get back on her feet and we need some fluff just for maintenance. Maybe something like:
  • Start with low tension topics and gauge whether it's safe to move on to bigger ones
    • Our impressions on Konoha
    • Our impressions on our minders
    • What useless things we've been up to during the day
Added, with some extra specifics.

Keiko should get to ZR 10, in anticipation of wind-weapon enhancement training as a reward.
Added a line about this to my plan - IC justification for Keiko to train to this arbitrary threshold.

Kabuto realization - additional path besides noticing Mari/Keiko/Kagome's reactions: Hazou's a ninja, and they don't live long by assuming everything's as rosy as they'd like it to be.
  1. Akane's going to be okay, right? It's going to be okay? That's what the doctor said...isn't it?
  2. Hold on, "I never give precise estimates"? A recovery time measured in months? That's not too great, is it? If anything can happen, and all... And if it weren't The Amazing Dr. Yakushi, The Guy Who's Definitely Saved Akane, saying it, wouldn't it sound an awful lot like a threat?
Added to Hazou's realizations.

Cheering up Akane
  1. If we give her flame-of-the-forest: mini-speech about how flames can be strong and beautiful even when confined, how spring always follows winter, etc. (Basically, 'We're all so lucky to have felt the warmth of your inner flame, and we'll feel that way no matter what. Don't let the hospital blues get you down. We'll figure out what you can do while you're stuck here, and when you get out you'll be better than ever.')
Stole this to add a line saying talk about whatever symbolism of flowers we do end up getting her.
 
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Updated plan, now with formatting that isn't borked!
[X] Action Plan: Trees Bearing Fruit
This plan assumes the update timeline will start late in the evening of the same day as Ch. 87. The update should not go past going to sleep the night of the following day.

Methods marked with (O) can (in my estimation) more easily occur offscreen than others. If a higher-level point is marked, all sub-points should be treated as marked.

Bold underline bits are activities or information Hazou considers most important to complete or obtain in a timely manner.

Goals
  1. Survive.
  2. Maintain team sanity and stability.
  3. Stay on Jiraiya / Leaf's good side, including our minders.
  4. Maintain cover / don't cause any incidents.
  5. Get to know more about Leaf / our minders.
Methods
  1. Before bed
    1. (O) Does Mari or Kagome know the kind of simple light producing jutsu Team Asuma mentioned?
    2. Ask Kagome how can we make his stay here in Leaf easier
      1. We know this is a very unpleasant environment for him, and it makes us sad to see him stressed out and unhappy.
      2. Remind him that we're all here to watch each others' backs in case anything does go wrong.
      3. Is there any non-ninjacraft related activity or project he would like to pursue? Woodcarving, painting, cooking?
    3. (O) Sound out the team's views on giving J a tower-lifting prototype
      1. It sounded like he would be willing to give a substantial payment (another favor, when combined with the paralytic?) for it, and it's not like he can't work it out himself given a little bit of time since he's already been given the idea.
    4. (O) Confirm with Noburi that he isn't worried about clan secrets being discernible from him doing repair work, since we assume there are cheating bullshit Hyuuga everywhere.
    5. After meditating upon the day, Hazou comes to conclusions/realization that the doctor was acting funny, and Inoue, Kagome, and Keiko all made valid points in our interactions with him. We should re-examine our interactions -- there might be a bit more to the doctor.
      1. "I never give precise estimates"? A recovery time measured in months? Anything can happen? If it weren't The Guy Who Saved Akane saying it, wouldn't it sound an awful lot like a threat?
  2. Spread throughout the day
    1. (O) Dispel periodically
    2. Continue being nice to Team Asuma. Approach the situation from a perspective of genuinely trying to make friends. Throughout the day, as we build up rapport:
      1. If Hazou gets flak for being nice, maintain that with his apprentice indisposed it falls to him to maintain the group's levels of Youth.
      2. Ask about Leaf life trivialities, be willing to share in return
        1. What are Team Asuma's favorite foods?
        2. Share favorite books, especially those others are unlikely to have read.
        3. What do ninjas do here to relax -- Sarutobi mentioned a theater district?
        4. We heard you guys hosted some crazy chuunin exams earlier this year - are you allowed to tell us about those?
          1. Especially the Fourth Hokage's and Kazekage's sons. How did that fight end up going down?
        5. What they think the optimum frequency of dispelling is?
  3. Morning activities
    1. (Suggestion to Inoue-sensei) Can minders or the genin taking care of us pass on to J a request for a location to have sensitive team discussions?
    2. (O)
      1. Buy at least one high quality, durable set of shoes for each of us.
      2. See if we can't find a pack of some kind on our shopping trip to disguise Noburi's barrel without compromising function, which preferrably doesn't sacrifice aesthetics.
        1. Reasoning: the visible barrel marks him as a Wakahisa and a Kiri nin. It makes us easy to recognize and thus, potentially, to track. If the Iron Nerve had easily visible markers, Hazou would be looking for ways to hide those too.
      3. Get Noburi spare barrel material
  4. Midday activities
    1. Get some light training and sparring in under minder supervision, inviting them to join if they so choose
      1. "Keiko, I assume you have considered the utility of brushing up on wind jutsu?"
      2. "What do you say Akimichi? Loser buys lunch with Jiraiya's money?" (In a joking way, laughing along if anyone implies we're asking him out.)
      3. Confirm whether MEW can be used while airborne, ideally in a way that will produce chakra constructs to avoid permanent modification of the area.
    2. (O) Lunch somewhere - use as opportunity to bring up topics above, esp. favorite books.
    3. (O) Library visit - look over what subjects are available, and see if we can get some light reading material to deliver to / be sent to Akane. Include any of Team Asuma's favorite books from earlier discussion if we think Akane would enjoy them.
    4. Check back in on Akane like we promised, because we promised.
      1. Get flowers from the Yamanaka shop following the winning Flower Plan, confirm Akane isn't allergic to any of them, and set them up in her room however she likes.
        1. Talk about the symbolism, e.g. if we give her a bouquet with red and yellow roses talk about how they mean energy and joy and we hope they'll bring some in along with them, etc.
      2. Start with low tension topics and gauge whether it's safe to move on to bigger ones in the coming days
        1. Our impressions on Konoha - it's big and cosmopolitan and impressive, and we can see how a place like this could raise someone as awesome as she is
        2. Our impressions on our minders - parallels between the teams, their differences in attitudes towards being members of elite clans
        3. What useless things we've been up to during the day
      3. Don't push for a decision about sticking with us, but be willing to discuss it if she brings it up.
        1. It is a big question, and she has plenty of time to make it what with her recuperation.
        2. We won't abandon her either way. She's family.
      4. (O) If she asks for something productive to do, ask about getting her some engineering texts. If there are issues with us having insufficient authorization to access such material, see if there is there someone else who could do so and pass it on.
  5. Afternoon/evening activities
    1. ((O) maybe possibly?) Go do the sightseeing part of the trip to the places that were brought up at lunch (War memorial, Hokage monument, parks, theater district....) Generally follow itinerary from Team Asuma here.
    2. If Jiraiya gets back to us quicky on a secure discussion opportunity
      1. Our desire to arrange our mom's extraction from Mist, and our concerns about how that could impact the rest of the group.
        1. Does Inoue-sensei think this is even a feasible thing to ask with a favor, or stacked favors, given Hana's large motivation to defect to work for J specifically and the additional utility she provides to our team in the form of jounin combat strength and decades of experience?
        2. Ask if there is anyone else we would need to extract at the same, and whether we should avoid doing so at all to avoid putting Inoue-senei's family at risk.
          1. Any Wakahisa or Mori clan members would be more difficult to extract but also less likely to provoke huge reprisals from Yagura.
        3. Mom would be a valuable resource, but also an addition to the team - are others okay with that idea?
      2. Communicate Hazou's feelings to Keiko CCnJ style
        1. "It seems clear to me that there have been several instances over the last few days that I insulted you with how I communicated -- in particular, when discussing your plan of action while in the Summon Realm after we apprehended Arikada, when I suggested a stronger social focus in your training, and potentially when I said you should of course rely mainly on your own judgement when choosing what reward to ask for from Jiraiya. In the first and last cases I felt that I was either laying out shared assumptions, though in the second case I do not feel I communicated my reasoning with anything approaching clarity. What advice would you give me for approaching or phrasing such discussions in the future to ensure we can continue to communicate clearly, since this is an experience I value greatly?"
      3. Check Hazou's understanding of the social manipulations performed by Dr. Yakushi against Inoue-sensei's observations.
        1. Determine team policy on bloodline experimentation: we should all be on the same page (Hazou is ok with observations if they will make the doc happy with us / ensure he keeps Akane healthy: primary concern is safety and clan secrets)
        2. Still encourage / be enthusiastic for Noburi on his internship (he gets to learn from the best, cool!)
    3. Game night (Strategic Domination [Hazou should avoid rolling all sixes, giving credence to the lie that Iron Nerve simply involves improved kinesthetics], shogi, go, maybe games that are native to Leaf?)
    4. Say a quiet thank you to Inoue-sensei for taking care of everyone even though we know it's stressful and apologize for jumping the gun at the hospital if it was not already adressed. Accept any resulting hair-ruffles stoically.
    5. (O) Hazou should continue dedicating time to actively de-stressing - meditation, stretching, relaxing in the hot bath - and should encourage others to do so.
Contingencies
  1. Don't piss off Leaf
    1. Be polite to everyone we meet
    2. Listen to our handlers and follow their (reasonable) instructions to the letter
  2. However, be suspicious of any Leaf nin who are not Akane, Jiraiya, or Team Asuma.
  3. Try to minimize Kagome's stress level by not making him talk too much / interact with non-teammates if he doesn't feel like it, keeping close-by, encouraging him to eat any of the nice food we get that have already been checked for poison, esp. sweets and chocolate.
  4. Safety and Security Rules
    1. Don't split up if at all possible
    2. Keep a watch in our room even at night
    3. Make sure we all have whatever the local equivalent of white flags are
    4. When in public, try to stick to areas with a reasonable number of civilians and other ninja
  5. Combat contingencies
    1. White tactics by default
    2. Use any panic buttons Jiraiya has given us (none yet, sounds like)
    3. Try to leave the city or converge on Jiraiya's office to turn ourselves in. Make sure we're doing the equivalent of waving white flags.
    4. If we aren't able to immediately disengage, end the update for combat planning.
  6. Assume we are being spied on at pretty much all times by multiple parties
  7. If the topic of why Fire isn't a model for what Hazou wants to acheive comes up again, consider drawing from
    When you asked why Fire wasn't a utopia, I was confused because you had practically just said the answer yourself: none of the major players can trust each other, because each of them consider only their own people to have any moral weight. And that is what you said, that you would sleep well after killing a foreign citizen to save a Leaf one. Not that you would consider it a necessary tragedy to protect the people you care about, and not that you would devote so much as a second of thought toward avoiding having to make that choice again in the future, and you said all your counterparts in other villages feel the same way.

    When the whole world does that, then everyone looks like monsters to everyone else. At that point, it's even easier to say all foreigners are morally irrelevant, trapping the entire world in a spiral of indifference and hatred, so we get the current state of the world even from initial conditions where everyone cares about people outside their clan or their village just slightly too little. And at that point, it becomes impossible to trust one another to do things like build utopias, since all that power looks like a threat.

    Which gives us the answer to your original question: the reason Fire isn't a utopia is that even though it's strong, it's not as strong as everyone else all at once, and if you withdraw resources from maintaining your current military dominance to focus on things like civilian wellbeing, other nations will see that apparent weakness as an opportunity to help their people by hurting yours, who as we've established they don't care about. Boom, the next shinobi war. And if you did anything with your vast resources that would put you on a clear trajectory to become strong enough to fight them all off at once, like letting civilians live well enough to lead to significant population growth, the entire world will throw everything they had at you, even though they'd be eviscerated afterwards and have an even harder time stalling civilization's collapse.

    They'd do it even if you weren't being hostile, like the world did to Whirlpool. It's probably pretty easy to see from the reversed perspective - if Mist suddenly became insanely good at sealcrafting, and started using it to protect their civilians and grow more food and help all their citizens live comfortably, would you be glad your neighbors were growing happy and prosperous? Or would you see the impending population boom as a threat to be sabotaged and undermined? And if you find a low-risk method that sabotages your enemies' future strength without going to war, well, how could you not take it, even if it's morally horrific and accelerating the gradual downfall of the human race.

    You can't build up because you would get smacked down. You can't truly work with other nations to break out of the downward spiral because you won't be trusted and won't trust them, since you both know that trust would be exploited. So Leaf ends up having to contribute to the status quo, even if you guys are better about humanizing the enemy than others, according to Akane. But it isn't working, and something has to change, or everything is going to crumble into dust, and everyone is going to die - including Leaf. So, again, will you help us?
    1. Part of that is why we need him on board - preventing wars from breaking out while the fixing is happening, and then figuring out a way to change the incentives that result in things like distrust and scorch squads. Make it so that "cooperate" becomes the winning option even in the non-iterated case of this prisoners' dilemma. (Massively improve agriculture per area to allow consolidation of civilian population? Set up a neurtral third party to arbitrate disputes and hand out the uplift tech on the basis of good behavior?) That, or make Leaf so strong so fast that everyone's best option is to give up, but even then people won't actually be reasonable since they're scared and angry and distrustful. Even if there were a jutsu to magically restore everyone's view of each other as people deserving moral consideration, it wouldn't be anything like a permanent solution, because the cycle would start all over again.
    2. Also, compared to slowly dying villages in the wilderness, and to some extent compared even to Kirigakure, Leaf is fairly utopian already.
  8. Plan for talking about rewards with Jiraiya
    1. Most of these rewards are centered around making us stronger and better assets, so it's against Jiraya's interests to be stingy here
    2. Check if he is okay with us discussing fairly frankly some admitted longshots first; if not, skip this section.
      1. Kurosawa Hana
        1. Getting her out of Kiri
          1. Jounin taijutsu expert with huge reasons to defect to work for him specifically, and would cause Team Uplift to be stronger, safer, saner, enormously grateful, and probably more stable due to her greater experience and mediating influence.
          2. If this is gonna start the Fourth Jashin-damned Shinobi War, obviously not worth it, and is obviously a huge ask in terms of difficulty and risk, but is this a thing we that is even on the table as far as favors, or even accumulated favors?
        2. If not getting her out, how feasible is an attempt to get a message to her, even just "your son is alive and loves you"? In addition to or barring that, could we get information on what she is up to and what her position is in Mist?
      2. Does any kind of pass to cross Fire borders come packaged with Akane's reinstatement and our continued loyalty?
        1. We recognize that this is unlikely due to the need to maintain deniability, but Akane is much less of a carrot if we can't come to see her (if she does not stick with us) / will need to be able to access Leaf resources and her friends and family if she does stick with us.
        2. If J gets smug / team gives us shit for saying we're loyal to Leaf/J, maintain that since we are loyal to Akane who is presumably loyal to Leaf, we are at least second-order loyal to them, and in any case they appear to represent the best chance at fixing things.
        3. If J asks why we're now uncertain whether she'll stick with us, maintain that we are simply planning for all possibilities and that the choice remains hers.
    3. Check if he is okay with us discussing some generalities of less-longshot options before asking for a specific thing
      1. Seal designs: are these even on the table? Would he be willing to give us either an array of low-to-medium level utility seals that he thinks would contribute most to our effectiveness, or to do a deeper dive into e.g. storage seals and the extremes of what they can be used for?
        1. Examples of utility seals ordered by preference
          1. Communication range, especially surreptitiously
          2. Night vision or other sensory enhancements
          3. Advanced alarm seals
          4. Sound muffling seals / other stealth enhancements
          5. Self Contained Breathing Apparatus
            1. Something that lets us breath when there is no clean, breathable air around
          6. Eye, ear and environmental protection
            1. Protection against bright lights and noise
            2. Protection against extreme temperatures
            3. Protection against gas or liquid toxicants that only require skin contact
      2. Jutsu: he said he would get us a teacher at the end of our interactions with him in Yuni - if that no longer holds, how much is he willing to teach us now (e.g. # of techniques at particular ranks - describe the jutsu plan quoted below if prompted)
      3. Can we safely assume we will be given / at least have the chance to buy new ninja gear and essentials, what with our old stuff being potentially biosealer-contaminated?
        1. An up-to-date bingo book or comparable intel would also be really nice but we're not about to spend a favor on it.
      4. Technique Hacking
        1. Is it something we could learn from a favor?
        2. Jiraya's analysis on its usefulness for a team like ours
    4. Are there missions he has planned for us that he can tell us about before we make our decision?
    5. The update should then end for a vote on our reward

    The winning plan from the jutsu vote:
  1. Things to do while in Leaf
    1. Look out for a gift for Keiko
    2. If we meet Lee, challenge him to a friendly spar (of the no-chakra-boost-yes-Roki kind)
    3. Get Akane's family and Lee to visit her in the hospital
  2. Lingering Jiraiya Questions
    1. What purpose did lying to us about not knowing the identity of the summon clan serve?
    2. (Think of less insulting ways to phrase this) Why didn't he ever reply via summons, to assign us somewhere / at least give us new recognition codes / at LEAST tell us our codes were out of date / AT LEAST acknowledge that he got our message?? Why didn't we get told how long they would be valid for?
    3. Advice on uplift plans? ("I want your advice as someone who has spent multiple times my lifespan preserving peace and gathering knowledge about the world: in what way can I maximally contribute to improving the state of the world, by which I mean to reduce the exploitation of civilians by ninja, to improve the quality of life for both civilians and ninja, and to reduce and eventually reverse the erosion of civilization by the forces of nature and war?")
    4. Sealing lessons? Access to examples of seals? Don't want to offend Kagome, but this would be an excellent opportunity to pick up new ideas.
    5. How to acquire power inside the current system
    6. Any organizations/groups/polities Jiraya and Leaf would not mind us getting rid of?
      1. You know, just in case we need to acquire limited resources (land, vassals, political legitimacy etc.)
[] Brainstorm Everyone: Scorch Squad Squash
Background
  • Kagome suggested that the sparseness of the population is the fundamental reason behind the effectiveness of scorch squads.
    • Can we fix either or both of the contributing problems?
      • The difficulty of patrolling large areas of populated land
      • The difficulty of growing enough food in a small area to support a condensed population
    • Make that technique or technology available
      • globally?
      • to our allies?
    • Doing this might be a quick way to modify the tradeoffs for that method of warfare.
  • As discussed in the thread, there is an additional underlying problem of lack of empathy and trust between nations which prevents simple de-escalation.
Some initial brainstorming:
  • Teleportation tech like the safety poles/safety sticks in Significant Digits (which we may want to keep for ourselves/Hidden Heaven)
  • Automated defenses against ninja (golems? seal-based clones?)
    • Would need to be good enough to stand up to jounin, which implies that this would only be a good solution at much higher power levels than we're currently playing with
  • TH-ing plant growth jutsu, or creating relevant seals, or combining existing jutsu and seals in a clever way that optimizes plant growth, or in any way enabling large numbers of people to be fed while being secured against invasion, seige, crop burning...
  • Bigger-on-the-inside tech to let people farm in their own homes within cities (heavily modified storage seals?)
Further Steps
  • Get others' thoughts/critiques/contributions, and start working on the approach we judge to be most promising
  • Learn about current agricultural practices and try to figure out improvements to equipment or techniques (e.g. better fertilizers, seed drills, focused selective breeding...)
 
If we are to interact with Kabuto -- and we are, if Nobby is to be his apprentice -- then we need to approach him from a position of power. Not necesarily MORE power than him, but we can't let him take the lead socially even with his higher deception/diplo scores. To this end, we need to talk to him as equals.

On the note of Nobby's apprenticeship, we will be here more than a week if Nobby remains his apprentice long enough to hit 10 -- it's been stated that it would take more than a week in the past, IIRC, to raise it to 10, much less including Medicine.
 
If we are to interact with Kabuto -- and we are, if Nobby is to be his apprentice -- then we need to approach him from a position of power. Not necesarily MORE power than him, but we can't let him take the lead socially even with his higher deception/diplo scores. To this end, we need to talk to him as equals.

On the note of Nobby's apprenticeship, we will be here more than a week if Nobby remains his apprentice long enough to hit 10 -- it's been stated that it would take more than a week in the past, IIRC, to raise it to 10, much less including Medicine.

I would like to tie his benefit to ours in more ways than just Noburi.

This is why I like the idea of only letting him do the most cursory tests (which we already agreed to) for free. Then allowing him to watch us learn a technique that he supplies.
 
@eaglejarl On the subject of updates to counterbot, I'd suggest making sure to differentiate between against votes for action plans, training plans, etc.
Could you clarify? I'm not clear on what you're suggesting -- action plans and training plans are totally separate, so what is the case you're looking to resolve with this?

Note that this is according to someone with an incentive to keep us in Leaf as long as possible. She may be much better off than that.

In order to provide calibration:

A worm the size of the first joint on your thumb was blasted into Akane's midriff. It proceeded to chew its way about two inches around towards her back, and then had ~10 cc's of strong acid poured over it.
 
  • Go to a bookstore first
    • Get any books sealing and technique hacking that they sell, at least those that are more tutorial than history.
    • Get primers on glassworking, metallurgy, woodworking, and other practical construction crafts if they are available.
    • If they happen to sell any technique scrolls grab a few that might be useful.
    • If there are fun books Akane might enjoy buy some of those. Comics would be perfect since they're low cognitive effort ways to spend time.
    • Get some paper and writing equipment for taking notes in the library. Distribute them to all team members, for use in the library.
  • In the library
    • Take notes as you search for things.
    • Allow any of Sarutobi's team to look at them if they wish.
    • There's no point being secretive when we can get what we want by playing with our cards face up.
      • Don't take notes about things you actually want to hide that you figured out/know, duh.

Some of these things are so unlikely / militarily significant that I expect Team Asuma will take it as a mild psychotic episode to ask for them. Suppose I added:

  • Ask whether there are bookstores we could buy things from, since we cannot borrow from libraries?
    • If there are fun books Akane might enjoy buy some of those. Comics would be perfect since they're low cognitive effort ways to spend time.
    • Get some paper and writing equipment for taking notes in the library. Distribute them to all team members, for use in the library.
  • In the library
    • Take notes as you search for things. Allow any of Sarutobi's team to look at them if they wish. (Internal rationale: there's no point being secretive when we can get what we want by playing with our cards face up.)
      • Don't take notes about things you actually want to hide that you figured out/know, duh.
Would that satisfy you?
 
Some of these things are so unlikely / militarily significant that I expect Team Asuma will take it as a mild psychotic episode to ask for them. Suppose I added:


Would that satisfy you?

I would rather look than not. If they do exist there'll likely be section for them and it'll be minimally difficult to find. There's no need to ask either, we can just scan the bookstore looking for interesting things, and if we find them that's cool, if not oh well.

Oh also add buying a news-bulletin if they have info on the last chuunin exams.

Konoha is weird, they might have all sorts of things publically available that we'd expect to be hidden in mist. There's no harm checking.

More generally I don't understand the thread's aversion to cheap checks for high payoff longshots. Sure they'll only hit rarely, but checking costs very little, and has a large positive payoff.

Edit: If you're worried about Konoha taking the purchases as a threat, hand them off to Team Asuma once we get them, to be returned as we're on our way out.
 
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