Remove ads

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Reader mode
Turns out we should have eaten and swallowed all the notes and gotten bio sealing before getting to this point while missing, instead of Minatosealing or anything else, who knew?

The point about the additional RERs if chakra is a factor isn't trivial. I think it's partially an issue that the thread (and EJ) just want to summon best pup and see him kick butt, dang it! And this is the most direct path there ATM.

And 39 XP away from one more CR level to hope to cross that threshold isn't likely in the next couple days. Alas.
 
Last edited:
Paperclipped said:
  • Use this as an opportunity to lure Hidan out.
  • Take the full-Leaf assault route, in which Akatsuki will be forewarned anyway.
  • Just don't use Hazou's runes in the attack, and rely on the S-rankers + summons + S-rank SCs.
They're not sure if these are good ideas, but it's better than Hazou getting full-Orochimaru'd.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I share their concerns (though I seem to be in a minority here on that point), but none of these seem like good enough alternatives

Halberdier said:
Turns out we should have eaten and swallowed all the notes and gotten bio sealing before getting to this point while missing, instead of Minatosealing or anything else, who knew?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It really wasn't a good build choice given what we knew at the time. It still isn't, for that matter.
If this winds up forcing us to learn biosealing ASAP thereby further putting off Minatosealing and mid-chūnin combat stats, I'll be a little put out, but it's by no means the worst thing that could happen
 
Last edited:
OrthernLight said:
I share their concerns (though I seem to be in a minority here on that point), but none of these seem like good enough alternatives
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Basically this.

It's a shame Orochimaru can't replace the blood of Hazou's Shadow Clones without affecting Prime, because that would have made things worth it. At this point, we may as well try to involve Tsunade as best we can while still submitting to the blade.
 
roobee said:
T_of_A said:
[T]he QMs don't like when we just ask NPCs to do things for us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What is the precise feeling? Do you have a quote? If they merely dislike instead of forbid, then a high stakes situation sounds like exactly the situation where the difference matters.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We dislike it when you ask NPCs to come up with the solution to a problem for you. That doesn't mean that we won't do it but we strongly disprefer it.
 
I think this would be interesting to read, not offend Orochimaru, and it still has us accept the bioseals.

[X] Action Plan: Negotiating as Men
Word count: I dunno, man.
Duration: until surgery is over.
  • Uplift
    • Hidan's blood-sensing range beats our runes' ranges. Without a bioseal, Rune infusion isn't viable. Five villages almost lost this fight last time: failure's guaranteed without every single advantage.
      • We don't see any other way. The Akatsuki are an existential threat. We can't bank on Hidan's absence. An extra bioseal incurs no extra risk while securing Cannai.
      • We're not just rolling over and dying.
        • Stress-test the 'Orochimaru' section with everyone. Logic and consistency with Kei/Snowflake, tone and pacing with Mari.
        • Ask Noburi to come with - we'd like him present for the surgery because he's a brilliant medic and good with chakra systems.
          • It's not an order, but we will need him around Orochimaru soon no matter what to move chakra around for substrate production.
    • We're all taking huge risks. This is ours.
    • We love you.
  • Preparation:
    • Uplift holes up somewhere and doesn't return until Hazo gives the all-clear. If we don't signal in a few hours, we're dead or compromised.
    • Privately to Mari: if we don't come back, you know what to do.
  • Orochimaru:
    • Arrive as Prime.
    • Tone:
      • Respectful but firm. Negotiating as men, not quibbling over details.
      • Motivated by rational self-preservation: not unthinking fear or morality. We're agents with misaligned goals, not volatile humans.
    • We wish to accept his bioseals after briefly addressing the risk they represent.
      • Presently, we're a runecrafting-infosec risk and Rift access competitor. Eventually, as a runemaster we may grow to threaten him.
      • During surgery, he could implant a delayed-action kill-switch or give us a lethal disease. Our death is credibly optimal for him once the Akatsuki are defeated.
    • Will he swear an oath in front of Snakes?
      • Player intent: we want to secure an oath that we will come to no harm from Orochimaru or his agents relative to the counterfactual world where we do not undergo this surgery - basically, that Orochimaru won't betray us with the bioseals, now or in the future.
      • Hazo!Pilot should translate that intent as he best sees fit, negotiating as men. Do not quibble or get bogged down in wording.
    • Alternatively, are there rational arguments we can verify against his implanting malignant seals in us?
    • Conditional on him offering some assurance, accept the seals.
      • If he refuses, reveal that we have one or more deadman switches in place in case of his betrayal. Refuse to discuss their specifics. Accept the seals.
      • Cowardice and ambition are incompatible. We want both the Akatsuki and death defeated.
    • (If Pilot doesn't fear taking mental Consequences which would impact runecrafting) On that note, suggest that he keep Hazou conscious through the surgery so that Hazou's SCs can get additional veterancy grinding in.
      • Yes, we're serious.
      • (Regardless of whether we're staying awake, but only with Noburi's consent) offer Noburi's assistance: he developed techniques alongside Tsunade to use his bloodline with patients' chakra systems.
      • Grind runic veterancy while undergoing surgery. Prioritize RER 2.0 above all with Ninja Radar, and Force Dome as secondary priorities. Invoke/Timeladder/Reroll per 'pilot preference.
 
Last edited:
FaintlySorcerous said:
I think this would be interesting to read, not offend Orochimaru, and it still has us accept the bioseals.

[X] Action Plan: Negotiating as Men
Word count: <???
  • Uplift
    • It's not just the chakra seal. Hidan has our blood and we need to be in his detection range to infuse runes. Orochimaru has a seal that will swap our blood out.
    • Hidan detecting us while we're infusing runes would be a disaster. The Akatsuki are an existential threat - if they revive Pain, everyone dies.
    • We'd jump on an explosive tag for all of you if it would save your lives and there was no other way.
      • We don't see any other way.
      • We are not just going to roll over and die. Discuss the 'Orochimaru' section. His attitude towards us has shifted substantially since the development of runes - it's possible this is genuine. He isn't a social spec.
      • But we're all taking risks here - huge risks. This is ours.
      • We love you.
  • Orochimaru:
    • Arrive as Prime.
    • Tone:
      • Respectful but firm. Negotiating as men. Acting rationally - we both prize our lives.
    • We have reservations about taking bioseals from him. The advantages of taking said seals are too great to discount out of hand but we value our life.
      • Our incentives are currently aligned. Once the Akatsuki are defeated, we're unsure this remains true.
        • Our death would leave him as the lone runemaster, with uncontested access to the Rift.
        • We trust his honour, but his honour did not prevent him from threatening us or our sister when he was our guest and stood to gain far less.
      • He's the greatest biosealer living, possibly ever. We expect that he could place a malignant seal in us easily while applying the others.
    • We expect Tsunade will not oversee the surgery and lacks sufficient expertise in biosealing to detect malfeasance. Is this correct?
    • What would he do in our position?
      • If prompted or allowed, discuss the below.
      • We see two other avenues by which we might trust him more:
        • Enriching our model of him:
          • Are there rational reasons he shouldn't plant kill switches or the like in us? Can we verify them?
          • What does he want to do with the Rift once Leaf controls it? Is it compatible with our plans (reviving Jiraiya)? Explain why we're looking for Jiraiya specifically: our scrying ritual, the results, the Toad Sages' confirmation.
          • Why does he call us nephew? We don't expect him to be moved by emotional considerations but it's seemingly anomalous behaviour we wish to understand.
        • Enacting deterrents:
          • Are there oaths he'd swear in front of Summons? What penalty clauses would he accept? Time-bound oaths which end when we've learned biosealing sufficient to confirm his claims would satisfy us.
          • We've enacted deadman switches but would prefer a more collaborative approach.
    • Regardless of the above, accept the seals.
      • Cowardice and ambition are incompatible, and we desire a world in which the Akatsuki are dead and death can be circumvented.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I like this. I very much like this. Holding vote for now till I have a chance to think about it more and get other people's responses, but this is my favourite of the plans so far.
 
Noumero said:
Hazou promises to freely share all rune designs in perpetuity if Orochimaru stops experimenting on sapient beings (by, say, creating non-sapient substitutes).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I fully expect Orochimaru to relegate us to NPC status if we say this. We're suggesting that the value of our rune designs is greater than his unencumbered research. This is impossibly arrogant and it's motivated by our personal ethics. I like our ethics but this just isn't the time or place for it.
 
Last edited:
@Noumero just read your plan.

Have you put any thought into Jiraiya? Presumably, we are going to teach him Runecraft once he is resurrected. That will drastically change the balance of power in the Runecraft Cabal, perhaps in a way that Orochimaru might not like.

FaintlySorcerous said:
I fully expect Orochimaru to relegate us to NPC status if we say this. We're suggesting that the value of our rune designs is greater than his unencumbered research. This is impossibly arrogant.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also, this.
 
Last edited:
_The_Bomb said:
@Paperclipped @eaglejarl @Velorien

Who, specifically, said this?

There is some sentiment amongst us players that this is a major indication that we may need to reevaluate the extent to which this person is involved in our decision-making processes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ehhhhhhhhh idk about this, "throwing shit at the wall and sifting through the ideas" has been the MO since the beginning of the quest. The whole point is not punishing people for bad ideas, it discourages having ideas at all.

(That being said, yes I think this is a very bad idea.)
 
_The_Bomb said:
@Paperclipped @eaglejarl @Velorien

Who, specifically, said this?

There is some sentiment amongst us players that this is a major indication that we may need to reevaluate the extent to which this person is involved in our decision-making processes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Personally, I suspect that that answer was just off the cuff on the part of Paper and if we start reading in to it as far as 'maybe we shouldn't listen to this advisor anymore' then it might just get a mini-retcon.
 
[X] Action Plan: Negotiating as Men
[X] Action Plan: Snuncle Warcrimes Experiences the Consequences of His Actions
[X] Action Plan: Get the Bioseal, Already
 
Noumero said:
Hazou promises to freely share all rune designs in perpetuity if Orochimaru stops experimenting on sapient beings (by, say, creating non-sapient substitutes).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
@Noumero could I convince you to please delete this line? I have substantial issues with it, [OLD TEXT, PLZ IGNORE] to the point where I feel I might not be able to continue voting for the plan if it remains.
 
Last edited:
Left-Hand Mutant said:
Opened SV. My alerts contain a stream of likes on my "biosealing is obviously bad" posts from the QMs and mostly no other users.

Sigh. We're fucking doomed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Left-Hand Mutant said:
[X] Action Plan: D.A.R.E. To Say No To Ninja Drugs and Bioseals
Word count: <199
Duration: a day or two. (until Hazou has sufficiently practiced his runes, and Oro has made ample substrate for the assault)
  • Summon Cannai
    • Rejoice!
    • Cannai best boi
  • Tell Orochimaru(Via Hazou or Mari SC) that none of Uplift will be getting biosealed
    • Give whatever justification/explanation Mari suggests
    • We'll just have to chance that Hidan won't get detect us.
      • If he does, at least they'll need to engage our position rather than hunkering down behind Sasori's doom fortress
    • Have a dog pick up the sealing scrolls full of substrate from Oro and run them to a distant pickup spot.
      • a Mariclone can visit Oro and verify that he isn't tailing.
  • Practice runecrafting
  • Talk to the dogs Cannai recommended
  • Research:
    • If Hazou has enough chakra, no-prep DoB Kagome's Tears and KISS
  • At end of the update, we should be ready to contact Leaf and begin the Riftwar
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Okay I have a brilliant idea. What if we ask Oro to put a killswitch in us.

That way we know for sure whether or not he killswitched us, there's no doubt! It's flawless!
 
Left-Hand Mutant said:
Opened SV. My alerts contain a stream of likes on my "biosealing is obviously bad" posts from the QMs and mostly no other users.

Sigh. We're fucking doomed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I mean hey, if they are trying to communicate through tea leaves that this is a bad idea despite their numerous claims and statements to the contrary, you can maybe engage with them about that instead of tossing it at the thread's feet and giving the equivalent of "You morons are going to doom us all"? Just saying! :V
 
Emstar is correct, QM likes and NPC talking head meeting advice are both uncorrelated from actual QM signposting - we're told.
The meetings give us what the NPC would say in-character, and unfortunately these idiots love Hazou. This biases them a lot.
And the QMs have in the past liked any decently worded and framed argumentation, no need for it to be actually correct.

Left-Hand Mutant said:
Opened SV. My alerts contain a stream of likes on my "biosealing is obviously bad" posts from the QMs and mostly no other users.

Sigh. We're fucking doomed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The problem with raising the stakes sky-high is that eventually players get desperate enough to pull obviously self-sacrificial plays.

Will the quest end if Orochimaru mind-controls us ? Yes. Will the quest end if Nagato mind-controls us ? Yes. Do the QMs want the quest to end ? No.

However we're about to try to recreate the Battle of the Gods with -80% of the essie-power on our side, against enemies who might well be at 100% power. Of course the thread is getting desperate, and is willing to accept a potential bad end in the medium term to avoid a certain bad end in the short term.
 
Last edited:
_The_Bomb said:
@Noumero could I convince you to please delete this line? I have substantial issues with it, to the point where I feel I might not be able to continue voting for the plan if it remains.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
'I feel I might not' is not going to move the needle with this much time left in the cycle. De-vote and fork the plan (or de-vote and vote for mine).
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top