Okay so I know clan bosses are super big on keeping promises and whatever, but why do we think they'd care?
Need to involve some sort of third-party reputational stakes in order to make any remotely credible promise that we won't just murder them both the very instant enough hostages are past minimum safe distance. If you can think of a better option for that, I'd love to hear it.
 
I know literally no-one else cares about this, but I am positively salivating over the prospect of getting Orochimaru-level privacy seals! Maybe it's a holdover from the days of Jiraiya praising us whenever we did showed growth in our OPSEC preparations?
We have those. We asked him for them outright before we went missing

I'm not entirely sure these are even different than the ones he gave us
 
@Left-Hand Mutant, thanks for tanking my suggestion.

May I ask why not just ask Orochimaru what he thinks of the Capacitors? We're right there anyway, it's relevant to the battle, and that way we don't have to interact with Ma and Pa (who probably won't be in the mood to answer any questions). We have the notes for it, right?

Edit:
Another reason to ask Oro about it is that it makes us look more competent and friendly: "Hey, we also made this potentially useful thing and we're sharing it with you; what do you think?" But as I mentioned earlier it's not likely to be a game-changer for him so we're not meaningfully empowering him.
 
Last edited:
@Left-Hand Mutant, thanks for tanking my suggestion.

May I ask why not just ask Orochimaru what he thinks of the Capacitors? We're right there anyway, it's relevant to the battle, and that way we don't have to interact with Ma and Pa (who probably won't be in the mood to answer any questions). We have the notes for it, right?
I would be surprised if Oro could offer better advice on this than the toad sages, and I'd rather not give him the idea of chakra-generation runes unless they're useful in the Riftwar.

As a plus, some people we speculating that it would be an interesting/impressive thing to show off to them.

That make sense to you?
 
Last edited:
Doing a reread of previous Orochimaru chapters:
No. He was Orochimaru of the Sannin, and he would only die on his own terms, once he'd exhausted every last option available on any Path. And he still had options. He just needed to find one that would work.
I love seeing Orochimaru operate !

...
Maybe we did Come Back Wrong and should be checked for lupchanzen.
 
[X] Action Plan: Under the Knife
Word Count: 299
  • Orochimaru
    • Hazou thinks we should involve Leaf. We stand better odds against all of Akatsuki, fully prepared, than most of Akatsuki, with less preparation.
    • Is Naruto's contribution that useful? He's incredibly vulnerable to Itachi, and there'll be many clones present. It may make sense to leave him behind to throw off Akatsuki.
    • What's the recovery time of the surgery?
      • Hazou has been regularly overdrawning his coils attempting to Summon Cannai, could that cause issues?
    • Ideally, we could use a couple of days to preshape runic blanks and grind veterancy for the assault. This could coincide with recovery from surgery, if it's not too invasive.
    • Debrief Orochimaru on the nature of the Great Seal's degradation, just in case.
    • Set a rendezvous for the surgery and dispel the SC
  • Team Uplift
    • Summarize the meeting.
    • Orochimaru doesn't know that you're aware of runecrafting. He must not infer this. Behave as such.
    • Mari, thoughts on Endou's viability as a contact? Could be sympathetic, although it could have been a act.
    • Sanity-check the rest of the plan with the team
    • If Orochimaru said that overdrawing wouldn't cause issues with the surgery, attempt to Summon Cannai when the Medium clears
  • Cannai
    • Go to the Seventh Path, tell Cannai the timeline for the Riftwar.
    • We can stop sequestering Dogs who have contact with Hazou, and soon end the oaths regarding refusing to pass information to Hazou.
    • Ask if there are other powerful Dogs that might agree to fight in the Riftwar? Kakashi's personal Summon perhaps. She fought against the Dragons.
    • Is he willing to approach them on our behalf, or take us to meet them?
  • Attend the surgery
    • Download the runic imprints and accept the substrate.
    • Would Orochimaru be willing for Noburi to assist him? Noburi is a skilled medic, and Tsunade helped him design bloodline-related skills to assist more senior surgeons
    • While Prime recovers from the surgery, SCs can shape runic blanks.
Edits made to the plan. Thanks to @RandomOTP for WC help (although we are still over).
 
[X] Lore Update

I think 20 hours is not enough time to properly optimize our approach here. We need to come to a consensus on at least:
  • Are we telling Oro our team knows about runecrafting?
  • Are we taking the chakra coil transplant?
    • If yes, how are we making sure that it won't interact badly with Noburi's overcharge (which probably creates different stresses from overdrawing)?
More generally, there are bits in both leading plans that I like that there's no obvious reason for the other one not to include, but which just haven't crossed over (Kisame being likely to be at the Rift site to act as a chakra source, say); I think it would be worth taking the time to synthesize these properly. As Oro said in this update, it would be foolish to make mistakes because of excessive haste, and I imagine the QMs have more than enough to do in the background while we deliberate.
 
Are we telling Oro our team knows about runecrafting
Is there any benefit to doing this?
Are we taking the chakra coil transplant?
If yes, how are we making sure that it won't interact badly with Noburi's overcharge (which probably creates different stresses from overdrawing)?
We already voted yes on this. I see no point in delay

As to Noburi confirming it's safe, he likely can't do that. We can ask him what he thinks. That's as good as we'll get. Asking Orochimaru about it is not an option. It's Noburi's bloodline. Not ours
Kisame being likely to be at the Rift site to act as a chakra source, say);
I don't even know what this means. To open the Rift? I don't even see how it matters at the moment. We can bring it up when doing final planning with Naruto and Tsunade.
 
[X] Action Plan: Under the Knife

@Sir Stompy, any thoughts on those suggestions?:
  • @Dictator4Hire's idea about causing a big natural that wouldn't look like our doing, in order to bait Konan to Rain, seems good. We can further try to optimize it such that it'd "accidentally" draw AMITY's attention to the rough neighbourhood of the O'Uzu island, so that the Akatsuki are actually motivated to go steer the events instead of just letting AMITY fall apart.
    • Might also mention the more direct idea of RERing Rain as a distraction, though I don't think it'd work; the Akatsuki will likely interpret it as what it is and not get distracted.
  • We should ask about the social dynamics within the Akatsuki and what's driving the individual members/how Pain controlled them. In particular, if our opening salvo kills some of them, such that the survivors are unsure whether they'd prevail in the following fight, how likely are they to be negotiated down? And if some of them aren't at O'Uzu, how likely the remnants are to mindlessly attack us vs. disperse vs. try to negotiate?
  • After we've made all of our suggestions, we should get Orochimaru's assessment regarding how high our odds of victory are, and if he remains very pessimistic, mention Superchillers.
 
As to Noburi confirming it's safe, he likely can't do that. We can ask him what he thinks. That's as good as we'll get. Asking Orochimaru about it is not an option. It's Noburi's bloodline. Not ours
If it turns out that we can't receive overcharge with our transplanted coils, will it have been worth it? If we gain the coils but lose overcharge will we still be able to summon Cannai?

I don't even know what this means. To open the Rift? I don't even see how it matters at the moment. We can bring it up when doing final planning with Naruto and Tsunade.
Is there a reason to not tell Oro now? What if he finds the information useful right now?
 
If it turns out that we can't receive overcharge with our transplanted coils, will it have been worth it? If we gain the coils but lose overcharge will we still be able to summon Cannai
This seems incredibly unlikely to me. I suspect Noburi will be able to tell in that case. So I consider getting a scan sufficient precaution. Orochimaru has no experience with overcharge so it's not like he'd know either.
Is there a reason to not tell Oro now? What if he finds the information useful right now?
Yeah I don't want to fit it in the word count
 
Is there any benefit to doing this?
It would allow us to have our team around while we make and infuse runes, and not annoy Oro when he inevitably finds out later that we told them. It would also let us put our team's SCs on firing the RE barrage, which would free up the Essie clones if they need to deploy while we're still firing.

We already voted yes on this. I see no point in delay

As to Noburi confirming it's safe, he likely can't do that. We can ask him what he thinks. That's as good as we'll get. Asking Orochimaru about it is not an option. It's Noburi's bloodline. Not ours
What if not taking the transplant means we lose overcharge for some mystery reason? What if the world transforms into pudding? What then?
I think it is likely enough to be worthy of concern that transplanted coils are less resilient to overcharge-induced stress and will rupture if we try. And yes, we can't ask Orochimaru now, but we could ask Noburi if we can tell Oro about overcharge (which really does not seem that secret so I think it's fairly likely he'd agree) and then ask Oro about overcharge safety. Apart from anything else, if it's not confirmed to be safe, we are risking potentially significant injury on the assault day when we overcharge to summon Cannai, more than we'd already get from the overcharge itself - with our Mild and Medium slots full, any further Consequence would roll up into a Severe.

I don't even know what this means. To open the Rift? I don't even see how it matters at the moment. We can bring it up when doing final planning with Naruto and Tsunade.
It matters because if Kisame is at the Rift site, Itachi is probably not. In particular, if Kisame is at the Rift Site, Itachi may well be currently infiltrating Leaf.
 
Um. @eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien , you've previously stated that Air Leadener and Icarus have opposite effects and shouldn't be overlapped.
My bad, should have been Air-Leadener or Icarus.

Sounds like Hazō's been hanging out with Rock Lee or something.
Come to think of it, as missing-nin standing in opposition to the group who enforce international agreements, we no longer have any reason not to violate the Rock Lee Non-Proliferation treaty...
[Χ] Buy a You-

- wait, no, we'd have to level taijutsu, never mind.



Ah, he does have minions! Or at least one minion. I was kind of expecting the Sound Four, or whatever they'd be called.



Also happens to Kei. And Orochimaru, though he at least has the excuse of having probably the highest social skill in the setting*, even if it's Intimidation. Hazō hasn't had one yet though.

* I figure up at the top there's Pain's presence (but he's dead), Oro's intimidate, Ami's presence, Kabuto's rapport. Maybe there's a deceit-spec up in the top ranks, it's not like we'd know.



Yup - random Orochimaru fangirl.



Like I said.



Wait, is that a thing he can do?



Possible reading comprehension failure, but I don't recall any previous mention of a dome existing



Ah, and that's why Oro doesn't have his own Wakahisa. They might need someone in Mist enforcing this, which is good because if so it limits the amount of manpower at the rift.



Okay, this actually makes sense. I'm now much less worried about his motives.


This kind of thing is why I occasionally gripe about us being bad at running a research program.
Anyone remember if we ever difficulty-checked it?



So I think he's hiding something significant, but it's not combat-relevant against the rift site.
Fortunately, we're also hiding something significant that's not combat-relevant against the rift site.



Flagging this as interesting phrasing, not the more normal "I plan to spend several hours brainstorming and reflecting". Not sure what to read into it. Playing with intentional shadow clone divergence for alternate points of view, maybe? Cognitive bioseals? Or maybe he just has a brainstorming procedure and there's nothing weird to it.



I favor just not using it, except perhaps briefly at opportune moments such as during the initial bombardment (assuming it can be turned off). It hinders our side much more than theirs.



I basically trust his judgement on this, considering that he's worked with them in the past.
As I thought, they'll keep the summoners on different teams when possible, but it appears I'd overestimated Konan's tendency to stay in Rain.
I predicted Kisame at the rift site because Kagome's approach to rift opening with graphoseals requires huge amounts of chakra. Does Oro not buy this, or has he not thought of it? I lean towards the latter, AFAIK he never familiarized himself with our pre-Runecrafting dimensionalism work that they stole, so there's no reason he should know this about it. If so, worth mentioning it to him.

But aside from all that, if he thinks that 4+ of them including Itachi are guarding the rift, why was he willing to attack it without us? I just don't believe that Oro + Leaf would have much chance of winning that without clone/boss rush or relevent runes which he claims not to have.



Orochimaru lived in Leaf with Naruto as Kage longer than we did, you'd think he'd know this, even if he is pretty reclusive.



So how long will the surgeries + recovery take, assuming we do agree to them?
As always, reaction posts are greatly appreciated. Take +1 XP to a character of your choice (chosen randomly by 1d3 among the PCs if you do not pick within 24 hours) as thanks.

Was this two separate techniques cast in sequence, or a single augmented-spec ninjutsu where one component was Earth Element and another was the Non-Elemental Shadow Clone technique? Hazō should have been able to tell.
Two techniques.

Does that make this chapter a pre-meeting meeting?
Yes.
 
It would allow us to have our team around while we make and infuse runes, and not annoy Oro when he inevitably finds out later that we told them. It would also let us put our team's SCs on firing the RE barrage, which would free up the Essie clones if they need to deploy while we're still firing
At the cost of making them targets forever if Oro decides to clean house about runecrafting. I am highly resistant to changes in this vein and will need significant bullying to change my mind.
I think it is likely enough to be worthy of concern that transplanted coils are less resilient to overcharge-induced stress and will rupture if we try. And yes, we can't ask Orochimaru now, but we could ask Noburi if we can tell Oro about overcharge (which really does not seem that secret so I think it's fairly likely he'd agree) and then ask Oro about overcharge safety. Apart from anything else, if it's not confirmed to be safe, we are risking potentially significant injury on the assault day when we overcharge to summon Cannai, more than we'd already get from the overcharge itself - with our Mild and Medium slots full, any further Consequence would roll up into a Severe
I suppose this is fine. But Hazou won't be pushing for this in my plan. Just noting the possibility and asking Noburi if he's confident he can prevent disaster.
 
we could ask Noburi if we can tell Oro about overcharge (which really does not seem that secret so I think it's fairly likely he'd agree) and then ask Oro about overcharge safety.
I suppose this is fine. But Hazou won't be pushing for this in my plan. Just noting the possibility and asking Noburi if he's confident he can prevent disaster.
Noburi likely won't be happy about it, but there's a case to be made he and Oro should communicate with each other directly - maybe even talk shop a bit about MS-8 and the pool's effects and other related subjects. Playing telephone tag with mednin jargon Hazo only halfway understands, under extreme time pressure, isn't a recipe for success.
 
@Sir Stompy
Please try to summon Cannai one more time.
The QMs told us we were so close at CR38, and we bought CR39 for a reason.

It's a 2 or 3 word addition.
It's in the plan already.

Noburi likely won't be happy about it, but there's a case to be made he and Oro should communicate with each other directly - maybe even talk shop a bit about MS-8 and the pool's effects and other related subjects. Playing telephone tag with mednin jargon Hazo only halfway understands, under extreme time pressure, isn't a recipe for success.
My plan has an option for them to collab over the surgery
 
Back
Top