But that's just it, isn't it? Previous tests were tests where Hidan'd be the one to kill. This time, we'd be the one doing the killing. That's far more problematic/traumatic/unethical.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
But that's just it, isn't it? Previous tests were tests where Hidan'd be the one to kill. This time, we'd be the one doing the killing. That's far more problematic/traumatic/unethical.
Hidan already accepted seals as weapons if Hazo uses them personally, for what that's worth.
After some thought, if the greatest virtue is conviction according to Hidan then I think he'd be fine with Hazo sticking to his guns with a reasonable enough justification- there's already groundwork laid for Hidan and Hazo handling different aspects of Jashin.
Also after further thought, given what we've been told about jonin aura and so on I think we need to get in the habit of confidence and not compromising values if Hazo's going to progress. Jury's out if it's worth it right this second but I think it's something to take note of- Jiraiya didn't think Hazo's usual style was conductive to becoming a jonin.
After some thought, if the greatest virtue is conviction according to Hidan then I think he'd be fine with Hazo sticking to his guns with a reasonable enough justification- there's already groundwork laid for Hidan and Hazo handling different aspects of Jashin.
Also after further thought, given what we've been told about jonin aura and so on I think we need to get in the habit of confidence and not compromising values if Hazo's going to progress. Jury's out if it's worth it right this second but I think it's something to take note of- Jiraiya didn't think Hazo's usual style was conductive to becoming a jonin.
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Forking FaintlySorcerous' plan. changes are highlighted below.
[X] Action Plan: Big Steel Ones, But Don't Blab About EM Nukes or Necromancy
Word count: <300
[X] Action Plan: Big Steel Ones, But Don't Blab About EM Nukes or Necromancy
Word count: <300
- Use SSA. See through the Paint.
- Read Hidan as best we can.
- This village? No.
- We've done this dance before. Jashin picked us.
- The greatest sin is mercy. Jashin demanded that Hidan commit that sin, over and over.
- Why is Hidan so intent on testing us, over and over? Why is he repeating these tests? Samey-samey.
- Jashin could have chosen anyone. He chose us.
- Because we can do things Hidan can't, that no one else can. Why?
- Because we're different. We are not the same.
- And Hidan is trying to make us the same.
- We've done this dance before. Jashin picked us.
- Jashin is the god of life and the god of death. The end of life is more and more certain, and with it, the end of death.
- The game is coming to a close, the players packing up their pieces. Hidan has seen it. It's happening too soon.
- We mean to keep it going a few rounds more.
- We will defeat the Dragons and save the Paths.
- We will wrench humanity out of its downward spiral.
- Because of what we are. And we will not change to suit a man's preconceptions.
- If we find ourselves in need of more of Jashin's favour, we will be in touch.
- But in the meantime, we have abominations to seal, Uplift to cause, and a woman to woo.
- He can come find us when he's found Akane's killers. Them? We'll kill with a song in our heart.
- Thank him for trying to get us Jashin-buffs.
- But we'll do this our way.
- Go home.
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Iris-Iven-Ibis
Interested-Idiot-Immortal
- Location
- You know
I am extremely likely to vote for a plan like that
I am very belatedly noticing that chakra-manipulating ninja wire would make a great combo with skyslicers.
Shame we haven't learned it.
And sadly, Killing Hidan means Leaf has to fight Kakuzu, and then AMITY goes to war with Leaf
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Chakra wire as in, wire made of chakra metal? Or something else.
If it's chakra metal, that stuff's impossible to get.
Useing chakra to manipulate ninja wire.(or hopefully silk!)
Pretty sure that's a thing, right?
[] Action Plan: Akatsuki Road Trip
Word Count: 298
Notes: Gets us out of Leaf for a while, gets us combat, and might potentially allow us to look at the seedling as well as potentially squeeze the Kurosawa/Ren into giving up some Lore so that Hidan and Kakuzu don't have to shake anything out of Mist. Would be great if we could get a look at some of Sasori's seals or get our hands on loot boxes too.
Word Count: 298
- Counter Arguments:
- Hidan briefly entertained Kakuzu's opinion that cash is king. Use it Appeal to Hidan to spare the villagers through economic practicality. MaRI was a hard sell and slaughtering these people would be a big set back. It's like he said, most ninja don't care about civilians and that's why Uplift's been so slow to catch on.
- Drive home the point that some of the smartest ninja in the village have acknowledged Pain's premise that humanity is dying- they've done the numbers. MaRI is one solution but it doesn't help if it's wounded in the crib.
- There's also a concern that summoning Death is taboo on the 7th path. You're not sure how much of Jashin's favor you can metaphysically cultivate or embody while also abiding the summons warning. It's a fine line.
- Propose alternative solutions:
- Make the case that Hazou getting more experience abroad and under the tutelage of both Hidan and Kakazu would allow him to more effectively spread Uplift and the word of Jashin, wrangle the conclave, repair the Great Seal, and kill more Dragons.
- Hazou wants to honor Jashin with meaningful kills and not just Akane's killers.
- Establish a secret contract where Hazou is prepped (He's squishy) and allowed to engage Akane's killers.
- Engage ninjas who specialize in genjutsu. (Hazou needs to test his resolve on humans first before Dragons. He can try to acquire genjutsu for Mari.)
- Engage ninja who are able to withstand psychic attacks (Try to acquire resolve enchancing jutsu)
- Go after biosealers (Try to get their notes)
- Prep for the journey
- Ask Asuma to authorize mission or alter contract, inform love ones, and reassure clan. You'll be back.
- Give last minute orders.
- Noburi's in charge, but you'll keep in touch through the 7th path.
- Gather supplies, equipment, and seals.
Notes: Gets us out of Leaf for a while, gets us combat, and might potentially allow us to look at the seedling as well as potentially squeeze the Kurosawa/Ren into giving up some Lore so that Hidan and Kakuzu don't have to shake anything out of Mist. Would be great if we could get a look at some of Sasori's seals or get our hands on loot boxes too.
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For that matter, a "thread bomb" seal that acts like a goo bomb(attacks based on our sealing), but fills an area with tons of harmless interconnected threads instead of goo. Attach it to time-delayed FSB seals, all activated by MARS.
We'd have a pretty awesome skyslicer bomb/mine.
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Edit:
We're sitting on a hard-to-deploy trick to kill even S-rankers, isn't it weird that we haven't worked on making it easier to deploy?
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For all we know, it could be that it would spent all his Jashin tab, undoing all the work he has tone to save up kills to exchange for some deranged Jashin favor purchase. Or that it would take him years to recompose. Or that it's itchy. We only know he says he prefers to avoid it, let's not assume.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
One of the goals was to distract Akatsuki from this. Can you please add a different interesting thing we have to do?
[x] Action Plan: Jashin Take the Wheel
[X] Action Plan: Big Steel Ones, But Don't Blab About EM Nukes or Necromancy
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- Location
- Pacific standard
I worry about big steel ones. It's going to go off the rails immediately, because I don't think that "the greatest sin is mercy" quite means what it says on the tin coming from the guy who talks about killing things only being worthwhile if they have suffering to end.
I'm pretty sure that "mercy" is the mercy of being freed from suffering, as a step on the 8 fold path towards enlightenment.
Huh the more I go down this thought train the stronger it feels. Is Jashin having his converts accrue bad karma and rewarding them for it... as a prison break? To let a couple souls flee Samsara?
I'm pretty sure that "mercy" is the mercy of being freed from suffering, as a step on the 8 fold path towards enlightenment.
Huh the more I go down this thought train the stronger it feels. Is Jashin having his converts accrue bad karma and rewarding them for it... as a prison break? To let a couple souls flee Samsara?
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
If I may argue for my plan against all the others...
It's entirely possible that these justifications we're spinning up are straight-up factually wrong, in a way that'd be obvious to Hidan. And another thing that'd be obvious to Hidan is that we're engaging in heavy motivated reasoning here, trying to twist Jashin's ideology to suit our needs. Whether the object-level arguments will be valid or not, Hidan isn't going to like that.
To win this, we need to:
Put your faith in Jashin.
Let Him take the wheel.
Conviction may be the greatest virtue, but Jashin isn't some sort of God of Holding Onto Your Ideals. Jashin is a particular entity, and Hidan claims to want to fulfil that entity's desires. We are not going to convince the guy to let us do things our way just by convincing him that we really believe in what we believe + coating that in some Jashin-based plausible-sounding justifications. Hidan appears to have some actual lore on Jashin, specific and detailed beliefs about what kind of entity He is and what He wants. Hidan isn't just LARPing.
It's entirely possible that these justifications we're spinning up are straight-up factually wrong, in a way that'd be obvious to Hidan. And another thing that'd be obvious to Hidan is that we're engaging in heavy motivated reasoning here, trying to twist Jashin's ideology to suit our needs. Whether the object-level arguments will be valid or not, Hidan isn't going to like that.
To win this, we need to:
- Reshape Hazou's mindset such that his arguments aren't disconnected from his motivations.
- Access Hidan's lore so that the Hazoupilot can re-adapt our arguments on the fly.
Put your faith in Jashin.
Let Him take the wheel.
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I love the idea of an expedition with Akatsuki and deliberately looking for trouble, it's very chaotic and insane and fun but: if we can get out of our immediate predicament by promising an expedition, can we do it after we're done with the Necromancy sealing projects? Those should be our highest priority unless we're in a life-or-death crisis (like right now)
Also, I'm not sure how much we can trust Nobori to hold the fort after the previous occasion. He needs the experience, so having Mari with him would make it much safer for both him and the clan. Or we can tell him not to make any promises unless it's validated by a counsellor (Kei or Mari)?
Edit:
I also like the idea of aligning our mindset with Jashin, but... not like that. There is no going back after such a massacre. This might destroy Hazou. Sure, inducing a temporary insanity could get Hazou to kill innocents, but the aftermath is dangerous. At best, we could always appeal to Ami's argument that if we truly believe in the Necromancy Project, then their deaths are temporary and we might get them back. I don't like the odds of their survival, but the argument can be made. And then, slippery slope, we can just kill anybody since they're only temporarily killed? I really don't like setting that precedent.
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Noumero
Omit Needless Words
But consider: more TYS points.
(More seriously, if we don't want to slide off the slippery slope, we can just... not. And my plan isn't even doing that, it's not actually arguing that killing these people for power is okay, it's artificially inducing this mindset as an instrumental goal towards ending up not having to kill them.)
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- Location
- Europe
[x] Action Plan: Jashin Take the Wheel
@Noumero , We might also want to actually pray to Jashin and try to command the faithless. Whatever that actually means....
Or the "Slayer":
*shrug*
@Noumero , We might also want to actually pray to Jashin and try to command the faithless. Whatever that actually means....
Or the "Slayer":
*shrug*
- Location
- America
[x] Action Plan: Jashin Take the Wheel
I do wanna see if sacrifices earn us Jashin-coins. I'd prefer not to kill Leaf villagers though. It'd be much less damage to our Leaf reputation if we kill Mist or Rock villagers instead.
I liked the idea of killing the most morally reprehensible and the elderly first. Spreading out our sacrifices over even multiple villages but only killing the elderly/disabled and the criminals in each would be a great tradeoff imo.
I do wanna see if sacrifices earn us Jashin-coins. I'd prefer not to kill Leaf villagers though. It'd be much less damage to our Leaf reputation if we kill Mist or Rock villagers instead.
I liked the idea of killing the most morally reprehensible and the elderly first. Spreading out our sacrifices over even multiple villages but only killing the elderly/disabled and the criminals in each would be a great tradeoff imo.
- Location
- Liverpool
1) if we do this, there's a non-zero chance we get forced into a death match with a jonin that killed Akane. Which is amazing exciting and high stakes.. And probably ends with our death as we stand.
2) can we point out that killing people after putting up the walls is a waste of the effort we put in towards Jashin, since then there are just walls without people? This is gonna get him to just pick another town, I know, but it's something to convince him that this isn't because of Mercy, at least.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Note that a lot of this is somehow explicitly marked in white text, which I can't see on my theme's background. Dunno if this is SV bugging out or if you did it intentionally for purpose of emphasis. If the latter, better to use underline or bold, as those can be read in any theme.
Fixed, I hope?
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