Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Oneiros · Nov 22, 2021

RandomOTP said:
Let's be honest: Shikamaru learned it by watching Ami, not Hazou

Ami who has been killboxed as many times by her home village as Hazō has?

Velorien · Nov 22, 2021

Oneiros said:
Sometimes it's regretful that there isn't a I am absolutely terrified reaction

The players make me feel this way at least once a day. I miss the Screaming in Kagome extension.

Oneiros said:
Ami who has been killboxed as many times by her home village as Hazō has?

Only once as far as you know. Hazō's at twice.

Oneiros · Nov 22, 2021

Velorien said:
Only once as far as you know. Hazō's at twice.

This is covered by the home village line. Hazō first time in a killbox was when he was not a Leaf ninja. (Yes I know legally he was a Leaf nin then).

Sir Stompy · Nov 22, 2021

Velorien said:
Covered that too, under "unless the Hokage vetoes it". As long as Shikamaru clears it with Asuma first, and Asuma gives him the go-ahead for whatever reason (like protecting Forbidden Lore), it's fine.

To pre-empt a third response, actually contacting foreign clans to invite them to get involved in Leaf politics is treason, so the Gōketsu would be unwise to call his bluff.

I realize that debating the QMs on the finer points of Leaf law is both futile and pointless, but I've never let that stop me before. I do think it highly unlikely that Leaf law would extend the privileges of a clan (historically a very big deal) to a mere provisional member. Why bother with tickets at all then?

apooooop · Nov 22, 2021

Velorien said:
Hazō's at twice.

Twice for now. *Slaps Hazou like a used car salesman* You can fit so many killboxes in this bad boy.

MrRobot · Nov 22, 2021

[X] [SageMode] These people are family. Let's treat them as such. (All Gōketsu ninja including Haru, Atomu, Rei, etc)

RandomOTP · Nov 22, 2021

[] [SageMode] These people are family. Let's treat them as such. (All Gōketsu ninja including Haru, Atomu, Rei, etc)

Noumero · Nov 22, 2021

[X]: [SageMode] Keep it to full Team Uplift only. (Hazō, Noburi, Keiko, Mari, Akane, Kagome)

I am pretty sure being clan doesn't mean being read-in on every secret, especially secrets that have absolutely no relevance to the second-generation members. Do you think the Nara had a full-clan meeting about e. g. the Dragons?

This is just a completely unnecessary OPSEC breach. Even if this one is minor, it's a bad precedent. And if the other major villages figure the Sage Mode out somehow, this will kick off that arms race Jiraiya was worried about in earnest. Everyone will be Scroll-hunting, including by trying to kill us and loot the Scrolls from our bodies.

Velorien · Nov 22, 2021

Sir Stompy said:
I realize that debating the QMs on the finer points of Leaf law is both futile and pointless, but I've never let that stop me before. I do think it highly unlikely that Leaf law would extend the privileges of a clan (historically a very big deal) to a mere provisional member. Why bother with tickets at all then?

Surely it's the reverse. It is a privilege of the clan to have its secrets protected by all members. A member entering the clan loses the right to share any secrets known only to them, because those secrets are now known only to the clan and qualify as clan secrets.

Edit: assuming they are clan secret material in the first place. The fact that the new member once stole 500 ryō from a now-deceased shinobi, though now only known to the clan, is unlikely to be recognised as a clan secret in the event of an inter-clan dispute.

Sir Stompy · Nov 22, 2021

Velorien said:
Surely it's the reverse. It is a privilege of the clan to have its secrets protected by all members. A member entering the clan loses the right to share any secrets known only to them, because those secrets are now known only to the clan and qualify as clan secrets.

Edit: assuming they are clan secret material in the first place. The fact that the new member once stole 500 ryō from a now-deceased shinobi, though now only known to the clan, is unlikely to be recognised as a clan secret in the event of an inter-clan dispute.

Can't really see it, the Clans take their status as superior ninja very seriously. If one of their members marks 30 mudfeet as "provisional" members that's a slap in the face to the ninja who died wearing their crest.

Plus the only time this would come up before is if the clans were fighting over adoption rights for clanless ninja. I would expect all the other clans to step in and limit any sort of "provisional" membership to actual offers. Since otherwise the Akamichi could block adoptions that the Aburame want to make.

Or if you want to make it weird, since foreign nin legally aren't people under Leaf law, trying to offer them clan membership is like trying to make Fifi a clan member. Laudable in some ways, but the law just doesn't recognize it.

Velorien · Nov 22, 2021

Velorien said:
Hazō, given your background, your ignorance is understandable, but chakra blades are not commonly available. The materials and craftsmanship are extremely rare, and chakra blades are considered clan treasures, to be passed down from master to apprentice, or perhaps bestowed as a reward for an act of great service to the clan. Most chakra blades not in the possession of a noble clan are ones which were at some point looted from the body of a previous wielder. Few new ones are ever made, and if Jiraiya is resourceful enough to have them crafted for me, such a gift would put me in his debt for years to come.

I found this buried in a chapter and thought it might be useful.

Sir Stompy said:
Can't really see it, the Clans take their status as superior ninja very seriously. If one of their members marks 30 mudfeet as "provisional" members that's a slap in the face to the ninja who died wearing their crest.

Plus the only time this would come up before is if the clans were fighting over adoption rights for clanless ninja. I would expect all the other clans to step in and limit any sort of "provisional" membership to actual offers. Since otherwise the Akamichi could block adoptions that the Aburame want to make.

Or if you want to make it weird, since foreign nin legally aren't people under Leaf law, trying to offer them clan membership is like trying to make Fifi a clan member. Laudable in some ways, but the law just doesn't recognize it.

You assume two things. First, that provisional clan membership is a real thing as opposed to something Shikamaru has just pulled out of his hat, or an obscure Leaf law that nobody's ever challenged because it hasn't been invoked in living memory but that he happens to know about because Nara know their legislation. Second, that the Hokage will care as long as it suits the village's needs and no village power-holders (except you) complain.

Lord Marshal · Nov 22, 2021

@eaglejarl @Velorien Could i ask some questions? Of course usual disclamer applies(You don't need to answer/i fully understand spoons are limited/ect...)
We know Noburi:
-Used his bloodline to replenish the summoners of Leaf, aside from maybe Tsunade.
-Uses his bloodline to transfer Chakra between the various Jonins of Leaf under Asuma's order.
So
1) Does it means he knows the CR of the majority of Leaf Jonins? Does he know Orochimaru's Chakra Reserve? If so, could it be possible to know Oro's Chakra reserve?
2) Secondarily, we briefed Asuma on Mareo and the Bears scroll, did he give us some guidelines on how to move? Or we have carte blanche on how to proceed as long as it's not treason?
3) Did Hazou send a Dog messenger to the Hornets when he found out all the Hornets in Arachnid were dead? Or we need to vote it in next plan?
4) How much Hazou knows regarding the Dog Clan military capabilities/movements/situation/ Powerful members thanks to the Puppy network?(I imagine "A lot", it could very well be that Hazou doesn't understand much and just repeats the reports to Cannai).

Sir Stompy · Nov 22, 2021

Velorien said:
Second, that the Hokage will care as long as it suits the village's needs and no village power-holders (except you) complain.

You're saying we can't get the Hyuuga/Hags in a tizzy about Shikamaru inviting a bunch more nasty foreigners to Leaf? Bet we can

MrRobot · Nov 22, 2021

Making hinata gradually more pissed of with the hyuga clan elders is a good thing.

Eisenhelm · Nov 22, 2021

[X]: [SageMode] Keep it to full Team Uplift only. (Hazō, Noburi, Keiko, Mari, Akane, Kagome)

Subject to change if and when they prove themselves.

Sentient Tree · Nov 22, 2021

Sir Stompy said:
This makes sense for the Leaf scorch squads, but none of the other villages can tell if the kids are chakra capable. Also if they're old enough the kids would know where they were born. I'm not saying it's impossible for them to grab some babies and toddlers, but anyone over the age of 3 or so is not compatible with the story-as-written IMO.

The Wakahisa can as well, but other than them that's a good point.

Velorien said:
You assume two things. First, that provisional clan membership is a real thing as opposed to something Shikamaru has just pulled out of his hat, or an obscure Leaf law that nobody's ever challenged because it hasn't been invoked in living memory but that he happens to know about because Nara know their legislation. Second, that the Hokage will care as long as it suits the village's needs and no village power-holders (except you) complain.

I don't see why we would challenge it. Shikamaru would have just given more protections to every single ninja living on our estate. That's a good trade for a secret that people won't even think is worth doing until we get to at least the first detour. Until then they'll see that we're actively getting powerful less fast than if we trained normally. No one will want to try it themselves until we're at least jonin.

MrRobot said:
Making hinata gradually more pissed of with the hyuga clan elders is a good thing.

I'm pretty sure she's already fairly pissed off at them anyway. Remember, she's a clan head, and they're the people who decide whether she stays that way or not. As such, whenever someone tells her she can't do something, it's usually going to be a clan elder or someone threatening to tell the clan elders what she's trying to do. She probably thinks of them much the way we thought of the merchant council before we subverted them.

In that line of thought, I bet she'd love to be a little less dependent on them, if we had a way to help out…

Edit:
But yes, helping her hatred of them along wouldn't hurt either. But I think we can probably skip to the "help Hinata minimize the clan elders' influence" step.

MrRobot · Nov 22, 2021

I mean with hinata at the control we can at least talk whit the yuga, she probably have some choice words to the eugenics program that they ran and is aware of how much they lose by puting every facet of their clan revolving around their bloodline. At least the branch family seal thing ie not a thing in MFD because like keep your jinjuriki uneducated it doesnt make a lick of sence.

Orisha91 · Nov 22, 2021

[X]: [SageMode] Keep it to full Team Uplift only. (Hazō, Noburi, Keiko, Mari, Akane, Kagome)

Immortal Lurker · Nov 22, 2021

[X] [SageMode] These people are family. Let's treat them as such. (All Gōketsu ninja including Haru, Atomu, Rei, etc)

Gev · Nov 22, 2021

Velorien said:
That's my point. The canon wiki does not contain the specific information I asked for a citation for, and nor do the references it cites. Hence, it is fanon and not even indirectly relevant to MfD.

Imagine getting Kishimoto to actually cast light on things like these. He once admitted that the only reason for the forehead protectors was that Naruto's glasses were a pain to draw. Let's just enjoy that this is not an Evangelion quest, and expend as little QM spoons as possible.

Inferno Vulpix · Nov 22, 2021

Sentient Tree said:
Perhaps scorch squads are not actually *killing* chakra capable civilians, but are instead abducting them and burning down the rest of the town to hide the evidence?

According to Kagome the only scorch squads capable of detecting said civilians are the Leaf ones, and they use that to just kill said children instead of the whole settlement.

Dictator4Hire said:
Then we can argue for a case study with Asuma's approval (provided the needs of the war are not too pressing, which they very well might be). We take a selection of (heavily preferably all Uplift aligned, trusted Goketsu) ninja who are barely able to learn SC and are not needed in the field any time soon and then separate them into a control group, SC but no FOOM instruction group, and a FOOM group. If the FOOM groups proves our timetables for accelerating gains we can then argue for the right to teach any Leaf ninja we deem worthy FOOM to better empower Leaf's future forces. We do not necessarily have to explain the inner working of FOOM, only that we believe we have a way to improve SC bonuses. We can probably manage that much of a favor out of Asuma since we temporarily resolved our Oro issues without his explicit help and he still feels remorseful about that.

With the small number of people who are capable of Shadow Clone in the first place, I don't think there would be enough people for this kind of controlled trial, let alone Shadow Clone-capable ninja who are also not needed in the field. (I also do not think that 'give Shadow Clone to a bunch more people' would go over well as a solution to this problem)

But moreover, this controlled trial would have much the same dynamics as our own: at first FOOM would look unimpressive, then after about a year of training they've broken even and the results start looking interesting, and then a detour later it's clear that FOOM is impressive. The trouble is that those are the same benchmarks we've got, and by the time our controlled experiment would start to look compelling we'd already be S-Rankers flexing our FOOM-gained strength and that would be all the argument we'd need.

Personally, here's how I would go about introducing FOOM to Leaf's jounin: we can expect that Leaf is incapable of leaving too many of its jounin off-duty at a time, since jounin missions need to get done, but what slack Leaf does have can be made use of. Starting from the peak, take the strongest Jounin (including Asuma and other S-Rankers not named Orochimaru) and give it to them (note that they are also the ones with the best gains from FOOM as compared to ordinary Jounin) until Leaf runs out of slack (i.e. enough Jounin are tied up FOOMing that Leaf can't afford to spare any more hands on deck), then wait until some of that slack returns (it should be noted that post-FOOMing a given ninja will be significantly better at what they do, theoretically creating more slack to work with) and spread FOOM down the chain to the next most capable ninja. Extra provisions can also be made for ninja like Sasuke who are obviously very talented but who have not yet reached Jounin, as someone like him would be a very cost-effective choice to FOOM. Within a few years Leaf should have a solid handful more EJounin and therefore enough wiggle room to spread FOOM to every Shadow Clone user in Leaf, and then spreading FOOM will have been optimally accomplished.

Egg Shavings · Nov 22, 2021

[X] [SageMode] Keep it to full Team Uplift only. (Hazō, Noburi, Keiko, Mari, Akane, Kagome)

At least until one of them achieves Sage Mode

Oneiros · Nov 22, 2021

All this talk of selling FOOM to Asuma is dumb. Because even if we want to expand it to more ninjas it makes sense to guarantee that they are loyal to us exclusively. Asuma has no such loyalty to us so we should not let him select ninja who are exclusively loyal to him. Like why would we create potential enemies when we can create guaranteed assets?

Halberdier · Nov 22, 2021

Velorien said:
and any man who could see one loved one sacrifice another and remain unmoved just because it was rational was a man who didn't deserve either of them.

I Really like this bit. Emotion isn't an antithesis to rationality, and uplift means remembering that both the statistic mean And the outliers are important.

That PATh Is HowOnE GOEs FROm "Angel OF Mercy" To "AngelWithoutMercy"

(HelLP The OuT IsCOnSumINGNg Me. Or MyPhonE IS ON The FrITTzZz.)

Velorien said:
He knew Mari well, or thought he did, and the image of a woman who'd rebelled against a lifetime of cold pragmatism to dedicate herself to nurturing a family didn't quite line up with that of a woman who'd throw some of that family to the wolves in a heartbeat if it improved the rest's odds of survival

Velorien said:
It did line up with the Heartbreaker.

The Heartbreaker wouldn't hesitate to throw away the queen to protect the king, nor, once the king was safe, to rescue the queen at the last second with a calculated risk.

Unfortunate. ButMaybeAn In TO TaLKiNg ToMari Later. AFtER All, sheIs OUrRr

Velorien said:
Hazō's stepmother/cousin/sister/Mari

AndAlso

Velorien said:
Mari," Hazō asked as she picked up the book, "is there anything you want to talk about? No pressure, obviously—if you just want me to leave you alone to enjoy your dubious literature, that's fine—but given everything that's happened, if you want a friendly ear…"

Mari hesitated for just a brief second.

"'Oh, Natsune,' Rai declared in his booming manly voice, 'only the thought of your limpid mahogany eyes kept me alive in the hell that was Hidden Promontory. I would imagine your gaze travelling down my body as I reached for my'—"

"ONE LAST THING."

"—enormous, throbbing—"

"How do you feel about affectionate puppies?" Hazō nearly growled.

"Your ideas are intriguing to me and I will call Noburi in to top up your chakra."

SheDid HesitATe AndAlmost OpenedUpToUS, WhIChHHhj 1Z G00D.

eaglejarl said:
Wow! You beat @faflec. Is that allowed?!

IThinkMeansThey're PAaAArT OfThe fAfLEC HIVEM1N∆

_The_Bomb said:
Fingers crossed this doesn't mean our super rational plan doesn't come with a big cost. Oh wait, this wasn't one of our push glasses up to nose plans, it was just some puppy fun time. What does this mean then?

Awfully optomistic to think the witnesses would stop him if he really wanted to do anything.

This really isn't the time to talk to her about this. Especially with other ninja in line of sight. Air your grievances in private after destressing with puppies.

Oh

I don't think we should address this next update. We need to let Kei have some space from Mari before anything can happen.

sighs

I repeat:

DO NOT TRY TO "FIX" ANYTHING NEXT UPDATE

She probably did, at least for the moment. I wonder what it would take for her to tell Hazō about the Council of Mari and the state his letter left her in.

I thought none of this was being recorded into history of any kind. Asuma never left us to die, after all. I know that's not what Hazō is saying here, but it bears mentioning all the same.

Takes notes on what langauge is actually helpful for her.

Yay!

Yay, she's open to the idea. Also, this way Eagle get's to write all the puppy scenes. Odd how that turned out.

Did anyone ever comment on how not into did Bomb beat faflec to commenting first, but they had a reaction post done in full in, like, 20 minutes last week? Daaaaang.

faflec said:
Soo...did Kei ever tell Mari that she doesn't want to be a tool anymore?

Uncertain. DoYouThink We Should B®INnG ThatUp WhenWe TalkAbout KEi'S ActualFeelings?

ContextBot said:
Kagome is the second, thrid and fourth opinion.

Noburi was already invovled.

Akane knows what's going on.

Ami is Ami.

And Hana would gladly get Mari murdered.

The only one left I trust is Cannai and we can't summon him for cuddles.

YET!!!11 G®0w£π MInDSeT

Paperclipped said:
Assuming ACE works for Noburi and we survive 3 more months, so he gets 2 internal CP -- what's our strategy for getting Asuma to let us teach him SC? Or are we just gonna treason it up in the Seventh Path?

IM Curious To See What Happens. CouldBe MORe THAn 2. ButAlso...A SC NObURi WILl HaveVeryLittle Chakra,And No Vampiric DEw To SIpHOn. Will The Original Be ABLe To To|° Him Up? If Not, HeMay beSTUcK.

Dictator4Hire said:
As @apooooop noted, the promise would be some far off day when the pain of the sacrifice is not as fresh. Losing a close relationship like Kei and Mari had could be considered equitable to experiencing the death of a loved one. Grief needs to run its course but time heals all wounds: the pain fades but the memories of love remain.

I'd say we should revisit discussing reconciliation between the two no sooner than a month IC, if not later. They each have enough responsibilities to keep themselves occupied and I trust both of them to be mature enough to work together in the face of crisis so long as Mari does not have a position of authority over Kei.

(underlines mine)

We have a lot of goodwill from Kei for helping her overcome many of her childhood complexes (for lack of a better word). She trusts Hazou more than anyone to be able to find new ways to address seemingly insurmountable obstacles. Giving her a quick speech reaffirming that Hazou wants to help her grow as a person while not forcing her to regress to the point of considering herself a tool would be the best immediate course of action once we can vote again.

Kei struggles with her self image and worth because from her point of view, everyone, besides Hazou, has treated her purely, coldly rationally and emotionally she cannot take it anymore. She is still a person, even if her creativity has been locked away behind the Frozen Skein all of her life. Now, however, she finally has new memories of daring to dream, courtesy of Snowflake et al. and how those thoughts filter through Kei's bloodline.

If Kei's personal coping mechanisms prove to insufficient to reassure her, perhaps we can call upon Ino, best blonde bride so Kei can have a bit of counseling and/or mind soothing techniques used on her.

Hazou himself is in desperate need of some Ino R&R too. Once the next update is over I'd love it if we have Hazou do three things:

Sleep
Hang out with Ino and Akane with puppies to further lower stress
Read history books in both the Leaf library and the Nara library
Hazou has been hobbling along from one crisis to the next for too long. If we do not think the dragon seal is going to burst within the next week and not working on that seal for such an amount of time could be reasonably considered safe we should have Hazou take a week of rest. He has more than earned it.

AGrEE About KEi M@RrRI. DISZAGrEe AboutTakingTimeOFF DuringDoubleWar MoreThanWeHave.

eaglejarl said:
Summoning Technique: Cantred, Cannula, Canmono, Cantsuru, Canshō!"

Half a dozen blasts of colored smoke marched around the patio, each resolving itself into a dog.

Actually, 'dog' wasn't really the right word. Nor was 'young dog'. 'Puppy', while chronologically appropriate, didn't properly convey the reality. No, what Hazō had summoned were six instantiations of the Platonic ideal of adorableness. Six fuzzy, big-eyed, floppy-eared, bundles of love balanced in ungainly fashion atop oversized paws.

There's Only 5 Dogs, But TheNumber KeepsGetting PuTT AT 5<X<7 SIx

eaglejarl said:
Keiko was, as the moment required, a brutal assassin, a scathingly rapier wit, and a plan-optimizing machine. What she was not, however, was immune to those

That'sAMOoD.

re know that you two are OK, but Mari and the others must be worried sick—"

He cut himself off, but it was too late. Kei's expression shut down. Snowflake's didn't, but her eyes narrowed, and the warmth in them that had been directed at Hazō disappeared instantly.

"You are welcome to inform her of our survival in the face of her efforts," Kei said coldly. "I find no appeal in the idea of interacting with her, directly or indirectly."

That's... Honest Fair AndAboTTu XPEcTEd.

Velorien said:
Even if one day you choose to sacrifice me for the sake of Uplift, it will be with tears in your eyes, not as a result of efficient resource distribution."

Insert "Why NOt Both" MeMe Here.
/JOke.

Velorien said:
Sacrifice us," Snowflake corrected, with less sorrow and more vibrating fury in her voice. "I wonder if I even entered Mari's calculations, or if not, just how many she was prepared to sacrifice for Hazō's sake. You, Hazō, recalled and listed our many sisters as yet unborn, at least as cognitively independent beings. It is, perhaps, unfair to weight our existence based on a possibility that might never materialise, but I would bet the Nara coffers to which I have no claim that the equation never entered Mari's mind.

Velorien said:
Perhaps in her place, were your welfare my ultimate priority, Hazō, and another girl's non-critical but important, and sacrificing the girl sprang instantly to mind and there was no time to seek alternatives, I would have done the same. For that reason, Mori Keiko cannot declare Mari an enemy. But Nara Kei is not strong enough to reach towards the light while loving someone who sees her torturous death as but another weight upon the scale.

Only K€| Would DeEM ASseRTInG HerOwn Mental Growth And WeLl Being AWeakness (Jk, LOTs OF FolksThinkThatWay. UsuallyNone With PLheasant BAKkk$TOR¥)

Velorien said:
How could Hazō fix things when Kei had just shown him feelings too complicated to identify with, and he didn't even dare try to step into Mari's shoes? And if not him, who else?

That IS The Cruz ofN the Issue, ISnt It.

Velorien said:
Maybe he should head to the Seventh Path and borrow some puppies. According to both Akane and Ami, puppies made everything better, and when both extremes of common sense agreed on something…

We Need More AMi/AKanE Conversations

HaveMore Thoughts. NeedTo RESSzSTaRT RA...Phone. RESTaRT Phone. APOOLoGIEs

(SaDLy, 85% OF That IS Actually MyPhone, The BiT I Did For Effect Was Just To Roll With TheTheme. GOsH The QMs DeserveSoMuch Credit,ThisIs BrutalEvenJustBy ACCiDEnt, LeT AloneOn PUrPoSE.)

_The_Bomb · Nov 22, 2021

Halberdier said:
Did anyone ever comment on how not into did Bomb beat faflec to commenting first, but they had a reaction post done in full in, like, 20 minutes last week? Daaaaang.

Tips hat.

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

In doubt there's always the Sun!

Omit Needless Words

In doubt there's always the Sun!

gran dutch of douchery

In doubt there's always the Sun!