So, uh...some time ago I made a post talking about whether or not we should discuss with Keiko regarding FOOM. Reactions were mixed, mostly centered around whether or not Keiko would (willingly or otherwise) eventually leak the information to others (esp. Ami) given how FOOM works (she needs chakra water to sustain it after training for a bit, my estimates were ~1 year or so), and whether or not she could figure FOOM out based on what she already knows. Probably missed a couple of arguments, some of this got on Discord and I don't read through that as well as I do the main thread.

Anyway, I want to bring the discussion back up again because after Velorien's update Hazou has the agency and timing to tell Keiko about FOOM: If we are choosing to trust her about FOOM so that she maximizes her FOOM speed, now is the time. My thoughts, to mitigate the risk of OPSEC breach, involve some combination of:
  • Talking to Mari beforehand about the likelihood that Keiko will leak info to Ami deliberately, and the likelihood that Ami will figure things out given our obfuscations.
  • Swearing her to secrecy, with Mari present, and rolling Deception to make sure she isn't lying about telling Ami.
  • Having Keiko get chakra water in the Seventh Path.
  • Having Keiko send a SC to Noburi to do training within the Gouketsu Clan.
I want to get a decision made on whether or not we tell Keiko soon, ideally so that (if we decide to do so) we can make a good plan telling her.
I am in favour with optimizing these plans with Mari and then consulting with Keiko about them. I also, tangentially, recommend regular-secure security with obfuscated terminology rather than going full underground lest we invoke Mari's wrath. It shouldn't be hard for her to pick up on what we're very deliberately not naming or giving contextual details on and then not name or give contextual details on it in return, other than the answers to our questions.
 
So, uh...some time ago I made a post talking about whether or not we should discuss with Keiko regarding FOOM. Reactions were mixed, mostly centered around whether or not Keiko would (willingly or otherwise) eventually leak the information to others (esp. Ami) given how FOOM works (she needs chakra water to sustain it after training for a bit, my estimates were ~1 year or so), and whether or not she could figure FOOM out based on what she already knows. Probably missed a couple of arguments, some of this got on Discord and I don't read through that as well as I do the main thread.

Anyway, I want to bring the discussion back up again because after Velorien's update Hazou has the agency and timing to tell Keiko about FOOM: If we are choosing to trust her about FOOM so that she maximizes her FOOM speed, now is the time. My thoughts, to mitigate the risk of OPSEC breach, involve some combination of:
  • Talking to Mari beforehand about the likelihood that Keiko will leak info to Ami deliberately, and the likelihood that Ami will figure things out given our obfuscations.
  • Swearing her to secrecy, with Mari present, and rolling Deception to make sure she isn't lying about telling Ami.
  • Having Keiko get chakra water in the Seventh Path.
  • Having Keiko send a SC to Noburi to do training within the Gouketsu Clan.
I want to get a decision made on whether or not we tell Keiko soon, ideally so that (if we decide to do so) we can make a good plan telling her.
I agree with all of this, and think one more precaution could simply be asking her -- as I said previously, breaking the "clan secrets" rule really seems to just be an Hazou problem. We could probably get a lot by saying something along the lines of "This is a need to know, high rank, clan only secret. Given your conflict of interests, are you comfortable keeping it?". Note this is something I feel like we should do in addition to the above precautions.
 
We could probably get a lot by saying something along the lines of "This is a need to know, high rank, clan only secret. Given your conflict of interests, are you comfortable keeping it?".

We might want to throw in some limited CCnJ in there, so she knows that we're not disparaging her character. We just don't want to make her choose loyalties. Keiko's doing alright now, mentally, but if we're not careful, we could trash her self-esteem... Especially if she thinks that Hazou doesn't trust her.

So... Enough CCnJ to show our earnestness/intent, but not enough to accidentally reveal FOOM or FF-Illuminati knowledge.
 
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I'm confused about how these will help, can you elaborate?

Swearing her to secrecy, with Mari present, and rolling Deception to make sure she isn't lying about telling Ami.

We're asking her to pre-commit to the secret before knowing it.

A) She can be honest with her promise and change her mind after we tell her.
B) She can be honest with her promise and underestimate her will/ability to withhold this secret once she knows the implications.
C) She can be dishonest with her promise, and then we... tell her we don't trust her? Kill her? What's the next step if she's being dishonest?
C') She's dishonest and Mari rolls a 1 and doesn't catch the deception.

Having Keiko get chakra water in the Seventh Path.

I thought we still don't know if you can bring chakra water to the Seventh Path? Also, what's the value of this? Also, wouldn't it take enough chakra traveling that way to substantially limit the value?

Having Keiko send a SC to Noburi to do training within the Gouketsu Clan.

How does Snowflake really change anything here? So random people think it's a Goketsu training secret rather than a shadow clone/chakra water one? That's not bad, but since Noburi can't do shadow clones he'd be falling behind in those training sessions and likely become despondent, and that's where the secret would break since she'd be a rising Jonin still training with a Chunin, unless it was presented as a summoning based training but then people would notice the absence of summons over time.
 
We're asking her to pre-commit to the secret before knowing it.

A) She can be honest with her promise and change her mind after we tell her.
B) She can be honest with her promise and underestimate her will/ability to withhold this secret once she knows the implications.
C) She can be dishonest with her promise, and then we... tell her we don't trust her? Kill her? What's the next step if she's being dishonest?
C') She's dishonest and Mari rolls a 1 and doesn't catch the deception.
I don't see the issue? FMPOV just telling her a) we have a clan secret that we want her to have access to; b) it's pretty valuable; and c) we don't want her to be put in a position where she may have divided loyalties ... this should be sufficient for her to get the general idea while keeping the details (wink wink Shadow Clone) hidden. As far as Keiko would know, it could be that Noburi discovered some impressive secret about Seventh Path chakra or something, and Hazou wants her to have access to that but doesn't want her loyalties to be split between herself and other potential summoners (e.g., if the Yamanaka get the Porcupine Scroll or something like that). Keiko's a clan ninja and not a complete idiot, she isn't likely to be dishonest or change her mind after hearing the secret FMPOV, and B) is an issue whether we do this or not.

TBH I also don't think my quoted statement is necessary since Mari exists and probably can predict Keiko's response and/or likelihood of her breaching OPSEC deliberately or otherwise, but it's another stopgap (and hey, it also gives her agency to not have to keep this from anyone else!).
I thought we still don't know if you can bring chakra water to the Seventh Path? Also, what's the value of this? Also, wouldn't it take enough chakra traveling that way to substantially limit the value?
Noburi's been a Summoner for months, Hazou should know whether or not this works. The point of this is for Keiko to do her training on the Seventh Path, where nobody un-allied to us can tell the fact, and where she can brush off any questions as "Seventh Path business". Which, honestly, she probably is doing anyway, if she wants to attempt to have a relationship with the Pangolins.

I'm not sure what the third question is asking, and so cannot answer it.
How does Snowflake really change anything here? So random people think it's a Goketsu training secret rather than a shadow clone/chakra water one? That's not bad, but since Noburi can't do shadow clones he'd be falling behind in those training sessions and likely become despondent, and that's where the secret would break since she'd be a rising Jonin still training with a Chunin, unless it was presented as a summoning based training but then people would notice the absence of summons over time.
Snowflake is a Shadow Clone whose personality is so different from her original that she desires to have her own life. Do you have any idea how many excuses we could make? Like, "I want to experience a relationship with my family not tainted by OG!Keiko" alone is the sort of thing that could last fucking years.

...Why isn't Snowflake doing this? I mean, beyond Keiko's SC limitations?
 
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...Why isn't Snowflake doing this? I mean, beyond Keiko's SC limitations?

Well. Considering we didn't know she was her own, full, person with independent thoughts and feelings until a few updates ago? I'd say that Snowflake might not think that Hazou would be okay with such a thing.

Luckily, Hazou's character is thoughtful enough that it wouldn't be out of character for him to ask Snowflake if she'd like such a relationship.
 
Hmm, is there any reason we couldn't just cooperate with Snowflake?

Have Snowflake FOOM in relative secret? I mean, Keiko will be able to deduce what's happening but at least this way she keeps plausible deniability.

Regardless. I'm generally for treating Snowflake as a semi-independent agent and cooperating with her directly.
 
Keiko is...calling her "fiercely loyal" is somewhat of a understatement, this means she won't betray Hazou, full stop. I'm fairly sure that if Ami forced her to choose between her and Uplift, she would prefer death than to help one or the other. Not that Ami would ever force her to choose, she knows better than anyone else how badly it could end. The important part is making clear why leaking this secret to anyone is a bad idea, but i'm sure Mari is more than up to the task, especially with Hivemind help.
 
PSA: In order to ensure that there is sufficient time for planning, voting is open. For convenience, I will tally votes starting from "Interlude: Grumpy Honoka is Grumpy". Voting closes tomorrow at 1pm Eastern.
 
Interlude: Contractual Obligation
Interlude: Contractual Obligation

Hundreds of these leaflets have been making their way across Leaf:

Rejoice, humans, for your salvation is nigh!

The true teachings of Gamautama, known also as the Sage of Six Paths, have finally come to the Human Path for the first time since the Holy Disciple Gamaruma brought the gift of martial arts to mankind nearly a thousand years ago. No longer will your souls be sentenced to an eternity of torment within the cycle of reincarnation. Instead, you need only follow the true faith, and you may be able to ascend to paradise as early as your next lifetime!

These are the Four Exalted Facts of Toadism:

1) Life is suffering. Our souls are tainted by countless lifetimes of impurity and sin, and their weight keeps us from the paradise for which we are meant. Instead, we struggle through innumerable lifetimes of pain and loss caused by the folly of our past selves.

2) In all suffering lies the possibility for redemption. The Sage created the Six Paths to test us, so that by passing his tests we may purify our souls and escape the chains of karma.

3) The purity of the soul determines its reincarnation. A peasant of the Human Path who lives life according to the teachings of Toadism in this life will surely be reborn as a wealthy merchant or even a ninja in the next. Every Hokage is the reincarnation of a saint of the Fire Country who unknowingly lived life as a true Toadist. But one who rejects Toadism and chooses to live a life of sin will be lucky to be reborn as a miserable hungry ghost of the Preta Path.

4) Only a soul that passes every test over countless lifetimes and achieves perfect purity can ascend to the paradise of the Seventh Path, there to dwell in joy forevermore. The Seventh Path is a place where every warrior is a titan with powers a ninja can only envy, while every civilian lives a life of peace and prosperity, safe from privation, disease, or chakra beasts. On the Seventh Path, even the humblest food-gatherer is part of a mighty clan that protects and empowers them, and the purest of the pure even have a chance to be reborn in the Toad Clan as one of Gamautama's own heirs.

The teachings of Toadism, passed down directly from Gamautama himself, are a guide to every test the soul may face in the cycle of reincarnation. One who masters the teachings walks the royal road to paradise, cutting thousands of years off their journey. You too, may only be one life away from eternal happiness.

In his mercy, Gamasēji, ordained monk of the Great Toad Monastery, has descended from the Seventh Path to teach Toadism to all with the wisdom to listen. Sermons are conducted every Sunday at dusk by the Hashirama statue in Founder's Square. For more information, speak to Lay Disciple Gōketsu Noburi.
 
[X] Action Plan: R&D Superpowered

Flashback time: Hazo's birthday party.
Prepare a shark trench coat:
  • Fund a team to capture sharks for their leather. Make sure that they are well equipped so they all come back in one pieces.
  • Commission said trench coat.

As usual, consult and sanity check with family.

R&D Initiative:
  • Start seal research: Finish the casino seal.​
  • Start a development group for a sled staffed with mostly civilians. Hazo and Kagome may assists in the development process.​
    • Ideally, there will be multiple options, preferably, downgradable or upgradable. Saddlebags for adult doggos, harness & sled, chariot, and sealtech.​
      • Each option have their own pros and cons. Sealtech likely is the best but makes Doggos dependent on the Goketsu clan. Saddlebags is simplest but tiring. Sled likely to work but require more effort to develop. Chariot have less fiction, but more fragile.​
  • Fund a glassworking group to reinvent the telescope.
  • Create a clan-wide reward system for innovation based loosely on Asuma's contest:
    • An innovation must be:
      • Explainable, replicable, and useful in some ways.
    • Two types that will be rewarded:
      • Incidental inventions/innovation not directly related to mandated projects
        • This is in addition to existing bonus for project completion.
      • Any inventions or innovation made by independent initiatives.
    • Long term research grants will be given to proven researchers for knowledge pursuit or long shot R&D projects.
    • Possible rewards:
      • Accolades, money, investments, guest of honor...and so forth.
  • Misc: Contact the Otter to learn more precisely the scroll's location.
 
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