BTW did we get some kind of classification status for this mission? Do we know Shikamaru is cleared to know about this?

Let me take a different track to explain my uncomfortableness with one of the interactions in the greater context:

Scenario 1: You're competing with your friend-ally in some sort of submission based contest, do you:

A) Submit something thats essentially a clone of some prior work of his, but in a way that counts only for him iff he submits the same work, but also directly signal to him that this is a thing you did (but only if he submits his version!).

B) Not do that, because that is not how allies should treat each other's inventions and secrets.

A, obviously. The village is a more important ally than any single clan; if Goketsu are not willing to share fairly easily reverse-engineered combat techniques, someone else should. The fact that they made sure we get the credit if we also submit the technique is a kindness; at the point where the Nara figured out how to make Macerators, they have just as much claim to them as we do.

Scenario 2: Now, given that said ally had already entrusted you with quite a large secret invention for the purposes of helping bail you out of a large problem, what do the respective actions in (1)now signal ? Does option A signal that you are a paritcularly trustworthy person?

There's a big difference between being given something in secret, and reimplementing something because you saw it in action and liked the effect.

Yeah the Ami part was a crap joke, but so was Hazou's response. Seems they're both pretty crap at being nice to each other.
 
EJ: I tried that, and y'all ended up clan head. I tried that again, and y'all got a more favorable Hokage. What more do I have to do?!

Oh, pleaaase! It's trivial to arrange for us to go in Isan or wherever and obliterate Leaf completely with some stupid OP Chakra bullshit.

We can then gather 30-100 survivors that weren't in the village to make a relatively peaceful enclave somewhere in southern ocean. Make it an actually hidden village so that we wouldn't be bothered by global politics. We can repopulate the continent when everyone else die.

The players receive their lighthousing, while QMs still can model a small village, interaction with interesting characters and occasional pirate raids. Win-win
 
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Oh, pleaaase! It's trivial to arrange for us to go in Isan or wherever and obliterate Leaf completely with some stupid OP Chakra bullshit. We can then gather 30-100 survivors that weren't in the village to make a relatively peasefull enclave somewhere in southern ocean. Make it an actually hidden village so that we wouldn't be bothered by global politics. We can repopulate the continent when everyone else die.

The players receive their lighthousing, while QMs still can model a small village, interaction with interesting characters and occasional pirate raids. Win-win
Wait, scratch that! We should be ninja-pirates instead!
 
So, the problem is really that Approach 2 usually helps build foundations for Approach 1. Look at Skywalkers - if we didn't sell them to Leaf, we wouldn't be in the position to make all these effective Approach 1 plays. I think you have the risk/reward analysis right for each approach individually, the really difficult part is knowing when to pivot. When have we gained enough from high-risk/high-reward plays and can start playing the long game in earnest?
I'm afraid that you're right. If this was a binary choice, there was a hope, however slim, that we could all come together and agree which approach to pursue. But it's as you're saying — it's a continuum, which means no chance of that happening, which means we are doomed. Unless...

[х] Install Lailoken the supreme dictator of Hazou's actions
 
I'm afraid that you're right. If this was a binary choice, there was a hope, however slim, that we could all come together and agree which approach to pursue. But it's as you're saying — it's a continuum, which means no chance of that happening, which means we are doomed. Unless...

[х] Install Lailoken the supreme dictator of Hazou's actions
So, you basically want to arrange for everyone to forget that the quest exists for a few years, right? I'm not sure QMs are immune to @Lailoken anti-memetism,so what will it accomplish?
 
Word count 287
[X] Action plan: Bombs and Bijuus
  • Discuss options with clan + Nara
    • 1: Drop explosives from above, attached to rocks or clones to taste
      • Pros: Nearly guaranteed to work. Very fast results, little recon needed. KISS.
        Cons: Guarantees that people know someone didn't want that bridge there. It's obvious who. Still, no evidence.
    • 2: Aburame-bug bound delivery of explosive munitions (pre-filled implosion seals that they can bite through to boom it.)
      • Pros: Nearly guaranteed to work; perhaps better results than above. Significantly less likely to be obvious Konoha was involved, especially in combination with plan snippets. Can transition into the above if bug delivery is spotted.
      • cons: ;requires more trust. Requires sacrifice of bug.
    • 3: Personal delivery of explosive munitions/personal excavation of rock
      • Pros: Very effective at making sure there's not going to be a bridge there at any point in the future. Can use Earth Clones.
      • Cons: Easy to spot by sensory techniques, higher risk to personnel than other plans.
    • snippets (may be added to any of the above ):
      • Drive chakra beasts into the ravine
      • Use technique or seal to create earthquakes either light or heavy, to stop sensory techniques or destroy the bridge.
      • All plans done at night.
    • Requisitions:
      • Flash seal
      • Earthquake seal/technique
      • Chakra Beast corpses/locations to plant at site
  • Hazo Bijuu research
    • Discuss with Kagome about the bijuu. How long they take to reform and anything that J's notes has about them.
    • Research into any notes that Leaf has on the bijuu. Try to find any sealmasters who worked on this to get advice from
  • Consider what we can do to make sure they go to Leaf
  • go to Nagi Island to look at the sealing arrays Akatsuki constructed
    • If they are no longer there we could always try to acquire a copy of them from Ren
Current plan
 
[X] Action plan: Bombs and Bijuus

Approval vote because the bijuu investigation is interesting/useful and Oneiros just fixed my objection to the phrasings.
 
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[X] Action plan: Bombs and Bijuus

Yeah, I'm not so against this either. @Oneiros If I made grammatical/formatting changes to your plan would you be willing to put those in? I'm seeing some stuff which don't affect the overall understanding of the plan but do affect the readability a bit.
 
[X] Action plan: Bombs and Bijuus

Yeah, I'm not so against this either. @Oneiros If I made grammatical/formatting changes to your plan would you be willing to put those in? I'm seeing some stuff which don't affect the overall understanding of the plan but do affect the readability a bit.
Always! I really appreciate how much work you put into helping with plans.
 
Word count 287
[X] Action plan: Bombs and Bijuus
  • Discuss options with clan + Nara
    • 1: Drop explosives from above, attached to rocks or clones to taste
      • Pros: Nearly guaranteed to work. Very fast results, little recon needed. KISS.
      • Cons: Guarantees that people know someone didn't want that bridge there. It's obvious who. Still, no evidence.
    • 2: Aburame-bug bound delivery of explosive munitions (pre-filled implosion seals that they can bite through to boom it.)
      • Pros: Nearly guaranteed to work; perhaps better results than above. Significantly less likely to be obvious Konoha was involved, especially in combination with plan snippets. Can transition into the above if bug delivery is spotted.
      • Cons: Requires more trust. Requires sacrifice of bug.
    • 3: Personal delivery of explosive munitions/personal excavation of rock
      • Pros: Very effective at making sure there's not going to be a bridge there at any point in the future. Can use Earth Clones.
      • Cons: Easy to spot by sensory techniques, higher risk to personnel than other plans.
    • Snippets (may be added to any of the above):
      • Drive chakra beasts into the ravine.
      • Use technique or seal to create earthquakes either light or heavy, to stop sensory techniques or destroy the bridge.
      • All plans done at night.
    • Requisitions:
      • Flash seal
      • Earthquake seal/technique
      • Chakra Beast corpses/locations to plant at site
  • Bijuu research
    • Discuss with Kagome about the bijuu. How long they take to reform and anything that J's notes has about them.
    • Research into any notes that Leaf has on the bijuu. Try to find any sealmasters who worked on this to get advice from
    • Consider what we can do to make sure they go to Leaf.
    • Try to get information on what the arrays on Nagi Island did to bijuu.
Oneiros I didn't make many changes, most of it is spelling stuff and shifting over the last two bullet points so they're all under "Bijuu research". I did remove the "Hazou" part of "Hazou bijuu research"; I think that's the biggest change I made.
 
BTW did we get some kind of classification status for this mission? Do we know Shikamaru is cleared to know about this?

I've been assuming that the Nara clan head automatically has a clearance of, "I already know more than you do."


Oh, pleaaase! It's trivial to arrange for us to go in Isan or wherever and obliterate Leaf completely with some stupid OP Chakra bullshit.

We can then gather 30-100 survivors that weren't in the village to make a relatively peaceful enclave somewhere in southern ocean. Make it an actually hidden village so that we wouldn't be bothered by global politics. We can repopulate the continent when everyone else die.

The players receive their lighthousing, while QMs still can model a small village, interaction with interesting characters and occasional pirate raids. Win-win

I feel as if I should have solid objections to plan "bastion and repopulate after inevitable human extinction", but I'm coming up dry.

-which suggests that we're not the first ones to think of it...


I'm afraid that you're right. If this was a binary choice, there was a hope, however slim, that we could all come together and agree which approach to pursue. But it's as you're saying — it's a continuum, which means no chance of that happening, which means we are doomed. Unless...

[х] Install Lailoken the supreme dictator of Hazou's actions
[х] Install Lailoken the supreme dictator of Hazou's actions
[x] Install Hazō the supreme dictator of Lailoken's actions



[х] Install Lailoken the supreme dictator of Hazou's actions

I repeat that this is a terrible idea, but I pledge to fulfill my mission orders precisely as written.


[x] Install Hazō the supreme dictator of Lailoken's actions

That's adorable. Have I had a chance to mention my reflexive response to authority figures yet?
 
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