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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Can we use Orochimaru's pardon and his brotherly relationship with Jiraiya as cause to posthumously induct him into the Goketsu clan and thereby have legal claim to the Snake Scroll? More importantly, how pissed would Tsunade be if we did something like that?
 
Sampatrick said:
Can we use Orochimaru's pardon and his brotherly relationship with Jiraiya as cause to posthumously induct him into the Goketsu clan and thereby have legal claim to the Snake Scroll? More importantly, how pissed would Tsunade be if we did something like that?
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...Orochimaru is still the bogeyman of Leaf, even if he was pardoned. I personally feel that the clans would be reeeal uncomfortable with us.
 
MMKII said:
My point is that the typo-ed vote wont matter as long as no one else coincidentally makes the same mistake.
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My point wasn't that oh horrors of horrors, a vote with a typo might win and the GMs might have to go through the agonizing near-impossible task of interpreting a vote with a typo. My point was that Walter might not want his typo to keep showing up in the tally.
 
Sampatrick said:
Can we use Orochimaru's pardon and his brotherly relationship with Jiraiya as cause to posthumously induct him into the Goketsu clan and thereby have legal claim to the Snake Scroll? More importantly, how pissed would Tsunade be if we did something like that?
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My plan already brings up the pardon and his relationship with Jiraiya
 
MMKII said:
They can eat my gym socks, he was there at the battle and he gave us the intel.

Orochimaru saved us all.
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Still looks horrible to call the bogeyman your clan.
Adhoc vote count started by faflec on May 12, 2019 at 11:42 PM, finished with 191 posts and 28 votes.
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faflec said:
...Orochimaru is still the bogeyman of Leaf, even if he was pardoned. I personally feel that the clans would be reeeal uncomfortable with us.
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The clans are going to be real uncomfortable with us no matter what we do next tbh. We have consistently been putting ourselves in a position directly opposed to the traditional clans and that isn't going to change now. If we can get Jiraiya's alliance to approve of it, then it doesn't really matter what the other clans think because they're already opposed to us.

Oneiros said:
My plan already brings up the pardon and his relationship with Jiraiya
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Oh for sure, my question is if we can fabricate a legitimate claim to the scroll rather than the extremely stretched interpretation we're trying to use now.
 
faflec said:
...Orochimaru is still the bogeyman of Leaf, even if he was pardoned. I personally feel that the clans would be reeeal uncomfortable with us.
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Exactly this.

"Oh, so you're 'retrieving' your 'relative's' summoning scroll. You, the former missing nin who haven't been a part of Leaf for a year, have a claim to said scroll of Leaf's most notorious traitor who is definitely dead. You have this claim because the guy who adopted you was acting Hokage and gave you carte blanche to "save the world" right before he left on the mission where he died. This is fine because there is absolutely no way you guys would consider taking this scroll for yourselves alone or to give back to the guy known for his obsession with immortality techniques. You definitely wouldn't leave us because we're the good guys whereas leaving your home village of Mist was fine because you suddenly found the Will of Fire inside of yourselves. Yep, seems legit."
 
Vecht said:
ftfy

(we're the baddies, after all)
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Personally, I want to search out Akatsuki at the nearest available opportunity (when we have the speech skillz to convince them to try again and the sealing skills to help) so that we can suss out what the fuck they were doing and maybe try a different variation.

They certainly have access to SPOOKY WORLDBUILDING BULLSHIT , and I wanna know whatever the hell they know, so that breaking the Chakra AI over our heel is that much easier.
 
Spinning Orochimaru's return to the Leaf in our favor would be like trivially easy tbh. We can get both Minori and Tsunade to say that Orochimaru died a hero, defending the will of fire until the end, and then cast Goketsu as being the clan of those who come into the Will of Fire. It makes for a nice little story and turns Orochimaru from the boogeyman into a redeemed hero.
 
Sampatrick said:
Spinning Orochimaru's return to the Leaf in our favor would be like trivially easy tbh. We can get both Minori and Tsunade to say that Orochimaru died a hero, defending the will of fire until the end, and then cast Goketsu as being the clan of those who come into the Will of Fire. It makes for a nice little story and turns Orochimaru from the boogeyman into a redeemed hero.
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I don't know exactly what he did to get kicked from Leaf, but given that Orochimaru being alive and hitched with Jiraiya was among the QMs' worst case scenarios, it's probably really bad.

I don't think the redemption story is gonna cut it.
Adhoc vote count started by faflec on May 12, 2019 at 11:57 PM, finished with 200 posts and 28 votes.
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@faflec, we might want to talk to Kagome about how Hazou is handling the traumatic experience. Out of all the Gouketsu, he has dealt with that the most.

Also, for the Lee section, maybe a word or two making clear that we are only considering it.

  • Discuss Lee:
    • He's talented, and all alone after Gai's death.
    • Can we mitigate his personality to minimize friction? Soundproofing, house rules...?
 
faflec said:
I don't know exactly what he did to get kicked from Leaf, but given that Orochimaru being alive and hitched with Jiraiya was among the QMs' worst case scenarios, it's probably really bad.

I don't think the redemption story is gonna cut it.
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The reason why redemption story won't work because Tsunade is dead and there's no other survivors to contradict Hiashi.
 
faflec said:
I don't know exactly what he did to get kicked from Leaf, but given that Orochimaru being alive and hitched with Jiraiya was among the QMs' worst case scenarios, it's probably really bad.

I don't think the redemption story is gonna cut it.
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It wasn't worst case scenario it was most narratively interesting. Didn't Orochimaru leave Leaf, not get kicked out anyway?
 
Hiashi still has uber life-threatening injuries and is in the hospital right?

If we go the slow route (Get Sneks to acquiesce us the Summoner spot from their end, get Naruto to assist our acquiescence of the scroll) he's probably not concerned with that right? I don't see what he could do to block us there.

Like even just the "HOLY PANGOLIN EMPIRE POLITICS OUT OF FUCKING NOWHERE "bit is a pretty out of context problem, right?

HIASHI'S CANDIDATE: I sign the scroll.

Poof

SNEK: Gouketsu?

HIASHI'S CANDIDATE: No.

SNEK: Fuck off m8 Gouketsu only.

HIASHI'S CANDIDATE: nani!?

HAZOU: I think the Snake Clan's opinions on the matter are quite clear.
 
Immortal Lurker said:
@faflec, we might want to talk to Kagome about how Hazou is handling the traumatic experience. Out of all the Gouketsu, he has dealt with that the most.

Also, for the Lee section, maybe a word or two making clear that we are only considering it.

  • Discuss Lee:
    • He's talented, and all alone after Gai's death.
    • Can we mitigate his personality to minimize friction? Soundproofing, house rules...?
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Yes to the latter, and that's already added. The former...I dunno if we'll have the time to discuss the Zabuza incident, and it's not like Hazou's going to have that Consequence for much longer.
Adhoc vote count started by faflec on May 13, 2019 at 12:32 AM, finished with 215 posts and 32 votes.
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Reasons why the snake scroll isn't grabbed:

1) Hiashi is in the hospital.
2) Everyone has tunnelvision on the hat.
3) Nobody thought anything about the scroll. Out of sight, out of mind.
4) Nobody really wanted to sign the snake scroll.
5) Nobody wants to piss off other clans.
 
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faflec said:
Yes to the latter, and that's already added. The former...I dunno if we'll have the time to discuss the Zabuza incident, and it's not like Hazou's going to have that Consequence for much longer.
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Fair enough. I mostly wanted it from a story point of view. The fact that the consequence is going away soon from a mechanical perspective just makes the conversation more awesome from a story perspective. Hazou talks to Kagome, and it helps.
 
faflec said:
I don't know exactly what he did to get kicked from Leaf, but given that Orochimaru being alive and hitched with Jiraiya was among the QMs' worst case scenarios, it's probably really bad.

I don't think the redemption story is gonna cut it.
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We don't need to absolve him of his crimes, we need to show that at the end of the day, the Will of Fire overcame his evil nature. We can spin it as Orochimaru martyring himself in order to find redemption from his crimes. Like, if we want the Snake Scroll we can't just walk up and say that Jiraiya said we could do whatever we want if we thought it would save the world because that's obviously not going to work. We need some legitimate justification and posthumously inducting Orochimaru into the Goketsu clan at least gives us some degree of justification.
 
Kiba said:
The reason why redemption story won't work because Tsunade is dead and there's no other survivors to contradict Hiashi.
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Kiba said:
Reasons why the snake scroll isn't grabbed:
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"Tsunade" is stlil alive. Incidently I don't think the Sage permanently kills the people they replace. My guess is that they drain the victim of lifeforce and then chuck the corpse into a scroll so it is preserved and can theoretically be revived.

The snake scroll isn't grabbed because grabbing would require the clans to agree on who to give it to or a Hokage to decide. People are focusing on the Hokage because it gets them the power and scroll.
 
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