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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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@MMKII, here are possible implementations of @Lailoken and @Oneiros' ideas respectively:

  • Ask about Hana.
    • If Jiraiya dies and Mari remains compromised, the clan will be in enormous trouble.
    • Hana is a diplomat with an interest in Hazou's well-being. Her issues with Mari are, ultimately, manageable.
    • Any way she could be returned to Leaf?
  • Kurosawa Clan could print out approximately infinity seals for the strikeforce, if Ren makes it.
    • Force her by remarking how she's the only Kage not going?
 
Lailoken said:
Perhaps I have been insufficiently emphatic. I will vote, yes actually personally vote, for the first plan to include something along the lines of:

"Hey boss, ya know how everybody's going to be in waaay over our heads without you? Ya know who is literally the only person who has both a proven interest in my wellbeing and also the formal chops to handle a High Clan showdown during a succession crisis? -by the way, her generous advice was the only reason I was able to pull off that Zabuza stunt. Anyway, the hat isn't hereditary, so if you and Ren don't reinstate her now that loyal skill is lost forever. Now that I know her jounin-button and have the authority to curb her trust me to do it. It will be easy-mode compared to what else you just asked of me."​
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Lailoken, I often regret not listening to you, because you turn out to be right more often than not.

I don't necessarily mind doing this thing, but I feel as if , if I *do* put this in, I'm going to have to deal with at least three people bitching about me doing that.

Inevitably, someone is just going to copypasta the whole plan except for that bulletpoint, and rename it something completely untactful , like "Sealsmith of the Gods, Better Version." and then they will invariably remove some of the content I actually definitely think SHOULD be in there. They might even remove Noumero's bulletpoint, and that I cannot stand for. (Do you know how nice it is, dear reader, that this individual just replies to your posts with "Literally the same plan plus this thing I want in it, but the wordcount is ~100 words smaller."? Its fucking awesome, I'll tell you that much. No need to burn the commons down over Kagome related matters and a bulletpoint attempting to find the Akatsuki book.)

So you see, thats the Catch 22 we find ourselves in.
 
faflec said:
It would require the Pangolin to be in the same Zone, which limits it to Ranged Weapons users and makes them take their actions later in the queue (to get the boost). Unless you are proposing that the Pangolin has the Athletics and/or Alertness skill to keep up with S-rankers.
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What about just packing together all the highest level ranged users they have together into the same zone as the pangolin, with the bodyguard pangolin nearby to prevent them from getting bombed, and just use them as an artillery position? They just keep throwing as many explosives as they can.
 
Noumero said:
@MMKII, here are possible implementations of @Lailoken and @Oneiros' ideas respectively:

  • Ask about Hana.
    • If Jiraiya dies and Mari remains compromised, the clan will be in enormous trouble.
    • Hana is a diplomat with an interest in Hazou's well-being. Her issues with Mari are, ultimately, manageable.
    • Any way she could be returned to Leaf?
  • Kurosawa Clan could print out approximately infinity seals for the strikeforce, if Ren makes it.
    • Force her by remarking how she's the only Kage not going?
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Wonderful. I'll post this as a different plan shortly.
 
Lailoken said:
Perhaps I have been insufficiently emphatic. I will vote, yes actually personally vote, for the first plan to include something along the lines of:

"Hey boss, ya know how everybody's going to be in waaay over our heads without you? Ya know who is literally the only person who has both a proven interest in my wellbeing and also the formal chops to handle a High Clan showdown during a succession crisis? -by the way, her generous advice was the only reason I was able to pull off that Zabuza stunt. Anyway, the hat isn't hereditary, so if you and Ren don't reinstate her now that loyal skill is lost forever. Now that I know her jounin-button and have the authority to curb her trust me to do it. It will be easy-mode compared to what else you just asked of me."​
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I hard disagree with bringing Hana back to Leaf with us.
  1. Hana expressed approximately zero remorse about breaking Mari and would probably do it again given the chance. We need a functional Mari more than we need Hana at our side.
  2. Hazou has yet to actually stand up to Hana on anything important after she opens her mouth. We, simply put, can't control her where it counts.
  3. Hana won't be helpful in a succession crisis because she's a foreign diplomat. Sure, she's got social game, but a) Mari's better at this game, and b) people will listen to the late Hokage's wife a lot more than they'll listen to the Mist Jounin.
I most definitely want to keep in touch with Hana, with frequent trips to her to get more advice and have positive influences on both of their psyches, but I very very strongly don't want Hana and Mari in the same village for more or less the next decade.
 
MMKII said:
Lailoken, I often regret not listening to you, because you turn out to be right more often than not.

I don't necessarily mind doing this thing, but I feel as if , if I *do* put this in, I'm going to have to deal with at least three people bitching about me doing that.

Inevitably, someone is just going to copypasta the whole plan except for that bulletpoint, and rename it something completely untactful , like "Sealsmith of the Gods, Better Version." and then they will invariably remove some of the content I actually definitely think SHOULD be in there. They might even remove Noumero's bulletpoint, and that I cannot stand for. (Do you know how nice it is, dear reader, that this individual just replies to your posts with "Literally the same plan plus this thing I want in it, but the wordcount is ~100 words smaller."? Its fucking awesome, I'll tell you that much. No need to burn the commons down over Kagome related matters and a bulletpoint attempting to find the Akatsuki book.)

So you see, thats the Catch 22 we find ourselves in.
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I don't suppose it would help if I pre-empted that by posting a version of your plan plus Hana titled "Sealsmith of the Gods, Better Version (we saw you coming!)"?
 
Edits:
MMKII said:
Rough draft, may have missed some things, feel free to steal.

WC: 460ish
[x] Action Plan: Sealsmith of the Gods
  • Find Jiraiya to discuss the assault (high-OPSEC conditions, include siblings).
    • Jiraiya probably thought about most of it, but in case he missed any...
    • Run non-secret ideas by Keiko/Noburi first. Thoughts?
  • Strikeforce equipment:
    • Distribute seals from your loadout.
      • Give everyone tons of explosives, and Banshee Slayers + Earbusters/Banshee Fuckers.
        • Sonic damage seems rare, hard to counter. Spam it?
      • For Jiraiya: Implosion Seals, Directional Explosives, Goo Bombs.
      • Equip Leaf contingent with Skywalkers.
        • Zabuza surely informed Mist, and Akatsuki could've reverse-engineered them. Reveal them, equip Kages?
    • You'll draw more seals, but probably can't learn new ones (concussion).
  • Strategy:
    • Wakahisa Exploitation:
      • Can Keiko can transfer chakra water to the Seventh Path? If yes, Team Uplift should stay in Mist and get Wakahisa Clan's cooperation. They'll supply chakra barrels, which Keiko will transfer to Jiraiya (or another summoner; an excuse to get other villages' intel on scrolls?).
        • Possibility of harmful bloodline/summoning interactions?
        • If impossible, the strikeforce should take several Wakahisa and chuunin along as chakra batteries (leave them in the rear).
        • Equip some combatants with chakra water bottles.
      • Per above, the strikeforce will get effectively unlimited chakra. Before battle, summoners should summon entire armies, and others should create dozens of clones (equipped with seals).
        • Result: overwhelming numbers advantage.
    • Pangolins:
      • Keiko could get chakra from Noburi/Wakahisa and send her Pangolins along. They can focus on mooks, tank some hits, and support the strikeforce with Maneuvers or buffing ninjutsu (Defend the Log).
      • Warning: Pandaa previously stated that Akatsuki's "dragon" resembled an archaeopteryx, which are Pantokrator's servants. Pangolins are very religious — unlike other summons? — so this might cause a loyalty problem.
    • It's a trap?:
      • Team Bloodrage was suspiciously incompetent and attention-grabbing, given Akatsuki's overall competency. Why do we trust their intel?
      • Possibility: Nagi Island is a trap for the desperate EN. Goal: assassinate villages' leadership via a WMD, or draw S-rankers away then destroy villages.
      • Stay ready to escape to the Seventh Path.
        • Summon the smallest toad to keep on person. On a signal, it desummons, then reverse-summons Jiraiya.
    • Backup plan:
      • Itachi's relationship with the Crows is strained: he'd apparently slaughtered one of their political factions.
      • Pantsaa had implied he'd be able to drag Keiko to the Seventh Path if she betrayed him.
      • If true, Jiraiya could assemble a team of summoners, negotiate with/attack the Crows, have Karanium summon Itachi into an ambush.
        • Could also work with Kisame's Sharks.
      • Contact Orochimaru/Tsunade via Seventh Path?
    • Mention Kagome's information. May be relevant?
  • To Jiraiya: If you don't come back but Naruto finds his way home, we'll take good care of him. You owe us one massive victory party, one wedding and one awesome adopted brother, so don't you fucking dare die on us, sir.
    • Hug him.
  • Follow Jiraiya's orders.
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Lailoken said:
I don't suppose it would help if I pre-empted that by posting a version of your plan plus Hana titled "Sealsmith of the Gods, Better Version (we saw you coming!)"?
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Beat ya to it.

[x] Action Plan: Sealsmith of the Gods, Better Version
  • Immediately run the following plan by Keiko/Noburi first. Thoughts?
    • OPSEC: Use an Air Dome, don't directly reference skywalkers.
  • Find Jiraiya to discuss the assault (high-OPSEC conditions, include siblings).
    • Jiraiya probably thought about most of it, but in case he missed any...
  • Strikeforce equipment:
    • Distribute seals from your loadout.
      • Give everyone tons of explosives, and Banshee Slayers + Earbusters/Banshee Fuckers.
        • Sonic damage seems rare, hard to counter. Spam it?
      • For Jiraiya: Implosion Seals, Directional Explosives, Goo Bombs.
      • Equip Leaf contingent with Skywalkers.
        • Zabuza surely informed Mist, and Akatsuki could've reverse-engineered them. Reveal them, equip Kages?
    • You'll draw more seals, but probably can't learn new ones (concussion).

  • Strategy:
    • Wakahisa Exploitation:
      • Can Keiko can transfer chakra water to the Seventh Path? If yes, Team Uplift should stay in Mist and get Wakahisa Clan's cooperation. They'll supply chakra barrels, which Keiko will transfer to Jiraiya (or another summoner; an excuse to get other villages' intel on scrolls?).
        • Possibility of harmful bloodline/summoning interactions?
        • Equip some combatants with chakra water bottles.
      • If impossible, the strikeforce should take several Wakahisa and chuunin along as chakra batteries (leave them in the rear).
        • The strikeforce will get effectively unlimited chakra. Before battle, summoners should summon entire armies, and others should create dozens of clones (equipped with seals).
          • Result: overwhelming numbers advantage.
    • Pangolins:
      • Keiko could get chakra from Noburi/Wakahisa and send her Pangolins along. They can focus on mooks, tank some hits, and support the strikeforce with Maneuvers or buffing ninjutsu (Defend the Log).
      • Warning: Pandaa previously stated that Akatsuki's "dragon" resembled an archaeopteryx, which are Pantokrator's servants. Pangolins are very religious — unlike other summons? — so this might cause a loyalty problem.
    • It's a trap?
      • Team Bloodrage was suspiciously incompetent given Akatsuki's overall competency.
      • Possibility: Nagi Island is a trap for the desperate EN. Goal: assassinate villages' leadership via a WMD, or draw S-rankers away then destroy villages.
      • Stay ready to escape to the Seventh Path via reverse-summoning, I guess?
    • Backup plan:
      • Itachi's relationship with the Crows is strained: he'd apparently slaughtered one of their political factions.
      • Pantsaa had implied he'd be able to drag Keiko to the Seventh Path if she betrayed him.
      • If true, Jiraiya could assemble a team of summoners, negotiate with/attack the Crows, have Karanium summon Itachi into an ambush.
        • Could also work with Kisame's Sharks.
      • Contact Orochimaru/Tsunade via Seventh Path?
    • Mention Kagome's information. May be relevant?
  • Ask about Hana.
    • If Jiraiya dies and Mari remains compromised, the clan will be in enormous trouble.
    • Hana is a diplomat with an interest in Hazou's well-being. Her issues with Mari are, ultimately, manageable.
    • Any way she could be returned to Leaf?
  • Kurosawa Clan could print out approximately infinity seals for the strikeforce, if Ren makes it.
    • Force her by remarking how she's the only Kage not going?
  • Ask Jiraiya if we can count on Tsunade for support back home.
    • Is she likely to go on the mission?
    • Would she help Goketsu in Jiraiya's absence (potential death) directly or as an advisor?
  • Are you taking the Toad scroll with you?
    • You could send it back with us, just in case... y'know...
  • To Jiraiya: If you don't come back but Naruto finds his way home, we'll take good care of him. You owe us one massive victory party, one wedding and one awesome adopted brother, so don't you fucking dare die on us, sir.
    • Hug him.
  • Follow Jiraiya's orders.
 
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MMKII said:
Edits:



Beat ya to it.

[x] Action Plan: Sealsmith of the Gods, Better Version
  • Find Jiraiya to discuss the assault (high-OPSEC conditions, include siblings).
    • Jiraiya probably thought about most of it, but in case he missed any...
    • Run non-secret ideas by Keiko/Noburi first. Thoughts?
  • Strikeforce equipment:
    • Distribute seals from your loadout.
      • Give everyone tons of explosives, and Banshee Slayers + Earbusters/Banshee Fuckers.
        • Sonic damage seems rare, hard to counter. Spam it?
      • For Jiraiya: Implosion Seals, Directional Explosives, Goo Bombs.
      • Equip Leaf contingent with Skywalkers.
        • Zabuza surely informed Mist, and Akatsuki could've reverse-engineered them. Reveal them, equip Kages?
    • You'll draw more seals, but probably can't learn new ones (concussion).
  • Strategy:
    • Wakahisa Exploitation:
      • Can Keiko can transfer chakra water to the Seventh Path? If yes, Team Uplift should stay in Mist and get Wakahisa Clan's cooperation. They'll supply chakra barrels, which Keiko will transfer to Jiraiya (or another summoner; an excuse to get other villages' intel on scrolls?).
        • Possibility of harmful bloodline/summoning interactions?
        • If impossible, the strikeforce should take several Wakahisa and chuunin along as chakra batteries (leave them in the rear).
        • Equip some combatants with chakra water bottles.
      • Per above, the strikeforce will get effectively unlimited chakra. Before battle, summoners should summon entire armies, and others should create dozens of clones (equipped with seals).
        • Result: overwhelming numbers advantage.
    • Pangolins:
      • Keiko could get chakra from Noburi/Wakahisa and send her Pangolins along. They can focus on mooks, tank some hits, and support the strikeforce with Maneuvers or buffing ninjutsu (Defend the Log).
      • Warning: Pandaa previously stated that Akatsuki's "dragon" resembled an archaeopteryx, which are Pantokrator's servants. Pangolins are very religious — unlike other summons? — so this might cause a loyalty problem.
    • It's a trap?:
      • Team Bloodrage was suspiciously incompetent and attention-grabbing, given Akatsuki's overall competency. Why do we trust their intel?
      • Possibility: Nagi Island is a trap for the desperate EN. Goal: assassinate villages' leadership via a WMD, or draw S-rankers away then destroy villages.
      • Stay ready to escape to the Seventh Path.
        • Summon the smallest toad to keep on person. On a signal, it desummons, then reverse-summons Jiraiya.
    • Backup plan:
      • Itachi's relationship with the Crows is strained: he'd apparently slaughtered one of their political factions.
      • Pantsaa had implied he'd be able to drag Keiko to the Seventh Path if she betrayed him.
      • If true, Jiraiya could assemble a team of summoners, negotiate with/attack the Crows, have Karanium summon Itachi into an ambush.
        • Could also work with Kisame's Sharks.
      • Contact Orochimaru/Tsunade via Seventh Path?
    • Mention Kagome's information. May be relevant?
  • Ask about Hana.
    • If Jiraiya dies and Mari remains compromised, the clan will be in enormous trouble.
    • Hana is a diplomat with an interest in Hazou's well-being. Her issues with Mari are, ultimately, manageable.
    • Any way she could be returned to Leaf?
  • Kurosawa Clan could print out approximately infinity seals for the strikeforce, if Ren makes it.
    • Force her by remarking how she's the only Kage not going?
  • To Jiraiya: If you don't come back but Naruto finds his way home, we'll take good care of him. You owe us one massive victory party, one wedding and one awesome adopted brother, so don't you fucking dare die on us, sir.
    • Hug him.
  • Follow Jiraiya's orders.
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@Oneiros you may find the above plan "Interesting".

@Lailoken you may find the above plan cathartic. Gib vote plz.
 
faflec said:
She's not?
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Squint.
faflec said:
She's not?
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Squints harder.

eaglejarl said:
They'll need to sleep for a bit, but as soon as they're ready, me, A, Ōnoki, Rasa, Hyūga, and basically every elite jōnin in the world are going to come down on Nagi Island like a ton of bricks. We'll get Naruto and the others back and kill the sons of bitches who took them." His eyes got hard for a moment. "Especially Itachi. After what he did to Naruto, I'm going to burn him to ash."
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eaglejarl said:
me, A, Ōnoki, Rasa,
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faflec said:
I thought it was established that a lot of non-S rank and/or elite Jonin was also coming?

Also, Ren not going would look a very poor showing for Mist.
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I feel like if Ren was going, she would have been mentioned before Hiashi?

She's not even combat specced.
 
faflec said:
I thought it was established that a lot of non-S rank and/or elite Jonin was also coming?

Also, Ren not going would look a very poor showing for Mist.
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I think that we're at a point beyond politics right now. If she'll be helpful, I have no doubt that she'll go, but I'm not convinced that she will be.
 
Despite our feelings on (HANA) -> (LEAF), how do we feel about stopping by her place for a chat and some hugs and a "Thanks for the advice, Mum." ?
 
MMKII said:
Despite our feelings on (HANA) -> (LEAF), how do we feel about stopping by her place for a chat and some hugs and a "Thanks for the advice, Mum." ?
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For sure. It doesn't have to be a long visit, especially if Hana's gearing up to head out too, but this series of events was terrifying/awesome/significant/relevant/etc. enough that we've got meaningful stuff to talk about with her for a little bit.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
The Elemental Nations, if memory serves, are about a fourth the size of Australia (not sure why we used that comparison, but I remember it) in landmass, and we know Fire Country has about 300,000 people in it.

If we estimate about 2,000,000 people in the Elemental Nations total (highball probably, but I'm being generous), then they have a population density of... 1 person per square kilometer, roughly (Australia is 7.7 million km2​, a quarter of it would be just shy of 2 million km2​).

It's estimated here on Wikipedia that 12th century Japan had a total population of about 7-10 million people. Japan is about 375,000 km2​ by landmass, so that gives us a population density of 19-27 people per square kilometer. I use these numbers because I want to estimate what kind of population density you can achieve in real-world conditions at that tech level, even if it leaves rather wide error bars.

So if you want to match the EN population of 2,000,000 people in a secluded landmass with a population density akin to the IRL equivalent of the Elemental Nations tech-wise, you'd need about 100,000 km2​. To get that, we'd need a 300km by 300 km landmass (or a landmass with 180km radius, whichever approximates better).

By my estimates on the canonical map of the EN, none of the smaller islands reach anywhere near that size. You'd need something like half of the Eastern Continent to house that many people, and you don't stay out of the ninja politics game when you're that size, unless you're really far away (or otherwise inhospitable like Snow, but if you live in Snow you're not hitting feudal Japan pop density in the first place).

The problem is further compounded by having to fend off chakra beasts across your entire country, which is no easy feat when we're talking scales in the hundreds of kilometers.

Let's suppose you make miraculous feats of chakra-engineering and get your hideaway up to modern Japan pop density (>850 people per square kilometer). Now we're looking at 2,350 km2​, measured as a square ~50km to a side or as a circle ~27km in radius. Something that small could be set up on one or two of the smaller islands on the south end of the map, but remember that we're talking about modern population density, aka after multiple agricultural revolutions and the industrial revolution and the birth of modern civilization and modern healthcare, which even with chakra-engineering sounds pretty farfetched to me.
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Thank you for the density figures, but if the numbers below still apply Fire is 325 miles wide by 230 miles high so treating the historic density as a lower bound improved by Earth/Water Ninjutsu for heavy work, even if not to modern levels, it does still look to me like there are places on the map you could squirrel away Fire's population if you didn't have to deal with Scorch Squads. Or at least a good enough chunk to support a higher ninja population.

Assuming the below still applies I'd eyeball Fire as ~75,000 square miles. Focusing on Rain as Akatsuki's probable base, it's maybe a fifth as wide and a quarter as tall, missing the top right of a square to Grass... I think that works to 3/4 (325/5 x 230/4) miles square, for ~2800 miles square in a country about 60 miles by 60 with a chunk carved out. Using a calculator that'd be around 7,250 km2​.

It's not a perfect square so I'm overestimating the size here, but at 19 people a square KM and 7,250 square KM it's ~140,000 people in Rain at 12th Century Japanese density. If they could maintain the Everyone-Who-Goes-To-Rain-Dies fear among the Ninja villages well enough with their S-Ranks to focus native ninja on defending civilians and civilian assistance and thereby build up enough social trust to train civilian-born ninja things could get interesting. Having living construction and heavy agricultural equipment to dig irrigation ditches or mountain side terraces, plough fields, build walls or houses, etc must substantially raise 19/km2​ figure. Call it double, call it triple, and without ninja wars or ongoing infiltration threats growing your ninja population through natural growth and integrating civilians seems plausible to far surpass Konoha ~1300 ninja.

It just seems like the best thing they could have done through cutting off Rain from the world, and it's wars, so completely is allow themselves to invest in their own social and chakra-technique Uplift without having Scorch Squads from every other nation on the continent rushing them to burn it all down. I'm really hoping Jiriaya doesn't win just for this to become another Condor Genocide when the victorious Kage slaughter Rain's newly prosperous citizens in case they hold a grudge over murdering their beloved overlords. (Thankfully if Rain cut itself off a couple decades ago there can't have been that much time for population explosion. A few ten thousand civvies dead, tops. Just humans too, so it's merely ethnic genocide rather that species wide.)

eaglejarl said:
Some basic information about the Land of Fire that you all learned as part of your "History of the Elemental Nations" courses in the Academy:

  • The Land of Fire is ~325 miles wide by ~230 miles high, not counting the peninsula
  • The total population is about 300,000 people
  • Konoha is the largest city, at around 30k
  • There are three other major cities (see map), each around 20,000
  • The rest of the population is in small hamlets and farming villages ranging from a few hundred to the low thousands
  • It has the largest shinobi population in the Elemental Nations; the Mist intelligence department puts it at 1k to 1.5k, with the best estimate being around 1200 or 1300
  • The land is mostly old-growth forest, the primary exceptions being the cleared areas around population centers and a very few naturally open areas
  • It's known for being very chakra-rich and therefore having a larger than normal population of abberations (read: monsters)
  • Ninja can travel about 30mph at a sustained rate.

There are some important implications here that relate to your swamp-living and/or contact with the town. Discuss.
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eaglejarl said:
Jiraiya snorted. "Yeah, well, suck it up. Anyway, Bloodrage's handler wasn't that highly placed, but he knew enough. Combine that with the intel that Orochimaru sent me in the board game and what the other Kage knew and we have a location: Nagi Island. We're confident that that's where Gaara was being taken, which means that the other jinchūriki are probably there as well. Mist sent Sunohara on ahead with the message so that we could start getting organized, but there's a strike group a few hours behind him. They also sent a messenger to Leaf, and I expect that there's another strike group coming from there. They should all be here in a few hours. They'll need to sleep for a bit, but as soon as they're ready, me, A, Ōnoki, Rasa, Hyūga, and basically every elite jōnin in the world are going to come down on Nagi Island like a ton of bricks. We'll get Naruto and the others back and kill the sons of bitches who took them." His eyes got hard for a moment. "Especially Itachi. After what he did to Naruto, I'm going to burn him to ash."
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I believe this should be "Sand sent Sunohara[...]"?
 
I finally caught up on this quest. Sorry for the lame post here when you guys are all doing important planning.

Just wanted to thank the QMs for all the hard work. There were literally days I spent doing almost nothing with my free-time but reading this fic religiously. And I found myself often impressed both by the level of dedication it takes behind the scenes to run a quest as smoothly as this and by the crazy stuff all the players have come up with to (sometimes successfully) game the system.

For the sake of sanity I didn't read a lot of the discussions that went into making action plans completely, so I have a few thoughts/questions to bounce off the hive mind. Sorry if they've already been addressed elsewhere.

  1. What exactly did you crazy animals think up that made Henge destabilize the setting?

  2. I'm pretty sure Akane is both alive and not severely hurt. I wouldn't be surprised if someone else already thought of this and I missed it, but my guess would be that Tsunade didn't even touch Akane because she never crossed the literal line she drew in the sand. My guess is that it was Mari who actually hit Akane in order to stop her from doing something so suicidaly stupid for her sake. She likely preempted Tsunade's need for retaliation by knocking Akane out and/or beating her up a bit to appease the Sannin. Probably didn't say a word doing it either.

  3. I think a lot of people are overestimating the risk factor of allowing Hana back into Leaf. It is true that we can in no way trust Hazou to deal with her objectively. But she's not an idiot. She's not going to directly hurt Mari anymore than she already did, other than maybe just reminding her that she hates her guts and will never forgive her. I think we can reasonably manage the impact by just not having the two interact. We deal with Momma only when Mari is not around. We go visit her. She never comes to the Goketsu complex until Mari is back on her feat and stable... and then maybe only after we've extracted a promise from Hana that she not interact with Mari alone.

    I think she would be a good political guide and source of general knowledge if Mari is still out of action when we get back. We just have to be firm about the rules of engagement.

  4. Perhaps we should ask Jiraiya just how much we can trust Tsunade to have our clan's interests at heart. If he doesn't come back does he think she'd be willing to go to bat for the Goketsu clan (not in an official capacity, but at least as a resource and someone to rely on). We know she tries to keep herself away from politics, but I don't think that means she's ignorant of them. If we can trust her to have our backs, she'd probably be an even better source of guidance, seeing as she knows Leaf much better. Though it's possible she blows us off and skips town the moment she realizes Jiraiya's dead. Not much else tying her to the clan, unless she'd be willing to help us just to honor his memory.

    In any case it might be worth asking for his input about her, if only to see if she'll be useful to us in the short time between when we get back to Leaf and we know the outcome of the mission... assuming she's not going on the mission.

    I think it wouldn't hurt to ask, but I'm willing to vote on the plan as is.



  • Ask Jiraiya if we can count on Tsunade for support
    • Is she likely to go on the mission?
    • Would she help Goketsu in Jiraiya's absence (potential death)?
      • If not giving direct political support than in an advisory role?
    • Would she be more likely to help if he asked her directly?



[x] Action Plan: Sealsmith of the Gods, Better Version
 
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Ren is definitely not coming. Everyone, be it Mist-nin or foreigner, knows that her position has nothing to do with her combat ability. And if the mission goes poorly she would literally become the most senior Kage in the elemental nations. The only reason to come is to find some way to prevent all the other Kage from executing Yagura right after rescuing him, and I'm not even sure that would actually be in her interest.
 
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