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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Noumero said:
I'm worried it's the very thing from which the hivemind's OPSEC breaches come from: inability to divide allies into tiers of trust and coldly judge when ignoring these tiers is justified and not justified.
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Pretty much this.

We do need to be careful with what knowledge we parcel out to people.
 
MadScientist said:
E: actually, do we know that the ambassador position is open? I thought J gave a list of concessions Ren needs to make to reinstate Hana?
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We don't actually need to know if it is. We just want to let Ami know that she can try to obtain it if she wants. Which will give J more leverage in negotiations with Ren and a carrot to hold over Ami
 
[x] Action Plan: Hazou's Busy Day To The Power Of Minus One

[X] Action Plan: Hazou's Busy Day Plus One
 
Sentient Tree said:
Do we know that Jiraiya isn't the one who wrote the book? He's a writer with a lot of pull, after all. Plus he knew Akatsuki personally back when they were all idealists.


I think that would be interesting. She'd probably think we're overreaching, because it's so hard, but if she likes it enough she might ask Jiraiya (or Kagome if he's still alive) to make it for her.
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I figure it might be easier to make an apparatus that a medic could use to transfuse someone in the field with their own pre-stored blood. Every ninja could keep their own blood storage seal in a necklace or something for the medic to grab and use. It would avoid a lot of the difficult problems with the automatic transfusion idea, like how to do the surgery and what to cover the seal in so it'd be safe to have hanging around in an artery for years.

For a transfusion kit at a minimum I think we'd need a needle attached to a waterproof bag or big syringe. The storage seal goes into the container, the container is closed, the needle goes into a vein, and the bag or syringe piston is pressed to pressure the blood into the patient. If we could make tubing we could use gravity, which would be a bit easier.

So how do we use medieval tech to make that stuff? I think we could make the needle by extruding a hollow wire and sharpening the end. They obviously know how to extrude good wire already. A cylinder and piston is easy. I'm not sure what to use for a waterproof bag; I'm hesitant to use an animal bladder, but it might work.

For tubing, I'm not sure. Any ideas, anyone?

Oh, and a separate idea; modern military uniforms have built in tourniquets around the base of each limb that can be quickly tightened in the event of a severe injury to stem blood loss. They're very simple, cheap, and save a lot of lives. We could easily adopt the idea for the CHAOS suit, and suggest adding it to standard Leaf ninja outfits.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Oh, and a separate idea; modern military uniforms have built in tourniquets around the base of each limb that can be quickly tightened in the event of a severe injury to stem blood loss. They're very simple, cheap, and save a lot of lives. We could easily adopt the idea for the CHAOS suit, and suggest adding it to standard Leaf ninja outfits.
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More ideas for making the CHAOS suit better, you say?

*takes out notebook*


But this does sound pretty good.
 
Tua said:
Can't see this happening but considering she went behind our back to talk to Hana to fix our collective family we are within rights to call her out on this if she tries to get mad.

@Noumero Word space left to add this as contingency?

@faflec Any idea if we know about the Hana/Keiko scene IC?

If no, have Hazou say something like this: "Can you swear to me that you never tried to improve my/our happiness/family circumstances without my knowledge nor that you will ever do so in the future? Because I cannot, I like you guys too much to watch you be unhappy. Yes, even if that means making you mad at me in the short-term. You are all worth it to me."

I think that is in character for Hazou, right?
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Keiko confronted Hana because she had proven to be an clear and present threat to Mari, not to make Hazou feel better.

-and if you sub in "safety" for "happiness", this is exactly the sort of thinking which has caused Kagome to screw the team over repeatedly. "I deliberately didn't tell you because I knew you'd be against it and I know whats good for you better than you do" doesn't go over well with anyone, much less teenagers, much less teenage girls being told by their adopted teenage brothers.

The entire Ami subplot is a mistake.



Cariyaga said:
I think you misread the intent there. I specifically said "disinformation campaign", not "read in on the full details of the opsec breach".

Also, to be clear, I would be willing to vote for your plan if you got Kei's permission -- or at least let her know we intended -- to talk to Ami.
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It doesn't matter. The core of all information security is need-to-know. She doesn't, and I wouldn't put it past a Nara to use the mere existence of a disinformation effort to conclusively deduce what Hazou is going to eat for breakfast three weeks hence. He has almost certainly already noticed the discrepancy Jiraiya pointed out, and finding out that it was immediately followed by a disinformation attempt is going to shoot his probabilities from, "there is a non-zero chance that it implies something important", to "it definitely involves something important", with armor jutsu being the plurality explanation. This is not something we want a genius with enormous experience dealing with Akimichi tanks to know when we may be up against him or his teammate soon.



Noumero said:
Yep, there are two ways to look at that.

1. On the one hand, yes, Hazou was just seduced by a fellow competitor leading to an OPSEC breach and should be ordered to stay far away from her.

2. On the other hand, if a Hazou who seemed smitten with Ikeda stopped interacting with her the moment he leaked her his secret, that'll look suspicious too, especially since he started showing interest only when the Gouketsu needed a cover-up.

We could play a you-know-I-know-you-know n-level deception game here, but consider this: Hazou leaks a secret to Ikeda, he then act suitably sad, but he is still allowed to interact with her later. Why? Perhaps because said secret wasn't actually that serious — which is consistent with our "Kurosawa bloodline secret" explanation. It's not scaleable, it's something the Kurosawa have always had, the status quo remains.

So I think having another meeting is a slightly better idea, especially if Hazou will manage to act his part as well.

I'm afraid that'll be enough. Hazou tanking the explosion apparently raised quite a few eyebrows. Even if Ino didn't start to wonder, do you think Shikamaru missed it? And if that very day Hazou will take part in some kind of "disinformation campaign" that requires him to be drunk with Ikeda, do you think Shikamaru wouldn't connect the dots? It'll be obvious that whatever trick Hazou used, it was strategically important.

... I could add thanking her for looking out for Hazou/apologizing for not listening, if you want?
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Nobody else even has reason to know that a breach occurred. Nobody else heard it, and it's easy to believe that Hazou was blackout drunk even if he wouldn't have neglected to mention it to anybody out of simple embarrassment. Heck, it's debatable as to whether telling his adopted family that he slipped up regarding Kurosawa secrets wouldn't represent another breach.
 
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Oneiros said:
No because if J goes to Ami she will be able to leverage it to get something from him. This way Ami goes to J. Which let's him obtain concessions.
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Then... wouldn't he tell us to tell her?

I dunno that seems like silly reasoning.

As it stands, I'm pretty sure Jiraiya's reserving the ambassador position for Hana for Hazou's sake.

@Lailoken I'd vote for a plan you made. (Probably.)
 
Cariyaga said:
Well, whatever, no one's interested in letting Kei know we're talking to her sister anyway so I guess it doesn't matter.

[Tone: Flippant, not distressed.]
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I think bringing up Ami to Keiko would be salt in a recent emotional wound; cruel and unnecessary. If Keiko finds out Hazou talked to Ami and gets upset, we can honestly tell her 'I considered asking you if you would be OK with it first, but reminding you of Ami seemed like it would be cruel and I didn't want to inflict that pain on you.'
 
TaliesinSkye said:
I think bringing up Ami to Keiko would be salt in a recent emotional wound; cruel and unnecessary. If Keiko finds out Hazou talked to Ami and gets upset, we can honestly tell her 'I considered asking you if you would be OK with it first, but reminding you of Ami seemed like it would be cruel and I didn't want to inflict that pain on you.'
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So we're managing her emotions for her, then?
 
Ami almost certainly doesn't want the ambassadorial position. She's trying to distance herself from her sister.



Cariyaga said:
Then... wouldn't he tell us to tell her?

I dunno that seems like silly reasoning.

As it stands, I'm pretty sure Jiraiya's reserving the ambassador position for Hana for Hazou's sake.

@Lailoken I'd vote for a plan you made. (Probably.)
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[ ] Gambling, Claymore Clones, and Banshee Fucking.
  • Self-explanatory
 
What if we grievously injure Keiko publicly so that Ami will visit us on her own?

Would that allay concerns of those of you who are wary of contacting Ami without Keiko's approval?
 
Tua said:
What if we grievously injure Keiko publicly so that Ami will visit us on her own?

Would that allay concerns of those of you who are wary of contacting Ami without Keiko's approval?
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Ami won't. Again, she is a supergenius who has already analyzed the situation to hell and back and determined that any indication of an ongoing relationship to anybody, especially Keiko, would be terrible for Keiko. This is a woman coached from childhood by a man known for quotes like, "the only sin is sentiment."

Refusing to visit her in the hospital would just be an opportunity to further that portrayal, and it would probably ravage Keiko in the process.
 
Lailoken said:
Ami won't. Again, she is a supergenius who has already analyzed the situation to hell and back and determined that any indication of an ongoing relationship to anybody, especially Keiko, would be terrible for Keiko. This is a woman coached from childhood by a man known for quotes like, "the only sin is sentiment."

Refusing to visit her in the hospital would just be an opportunity to further that portrayal, and it would probably ravage Keiko in the process.
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What? Unless I'm misremembering, Ami's analysis was that she couldn't get involved with Keiko without the rest of her family getting involved with Keiko, and she judged that would be bad for Keiko so she made the choice to push her away to protect her.

Cariyaga said:
So we're managing her emotions for her, then?
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Not raising hurtful subjects is called tact, it's not 'managing someone's emotions for them'. That's silly.
 
Lailoken said:
[ ] Gambling, Claymore Clones, and Banshee Fucking.
  • Self-explanatory
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*sigh*
Why do I always have to—
*sigh*

[х] Action Plan: Gambling, Claymore Clones, and Banshee Fucking
Wordcount: 162.
  • Gambling:
    • Schedule a meeting with the Oyabun in the near future.
      • If he is available: Hash out an agreement on gambling.
      • If he is not available: Well, it's not like we wanted to talk to him all that much anyway.
        • Leave him a note: "Baka".
    • Spend at least six hours each day gambling in casinos as a team, whether you get the Oyabun's agreement or not.
  • Claymore Clones:
    • Every hour, create a clone, equip it with ten explosive tags, and send it out to wander around Mist.
    • If someone tries to kidnap it or otherwise violently engage with it, it is to explode itself.
    • Refill chakra and make new seals as necessary.
  • Banshee Fucking:
    • On the day of your match with Keiko, prepare ten Banshee Fuckers and two Banshee Slayers.
    • Equip Banshee Slayers, activate them.
    • Once you're within the area of effect of the sound amplification field, activate all Banshee Fuckers in quick succession.
      • Finish the survivors with Youthenizers.
    • Warn no one.
Suggestions for improvement are welcome.
 
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TaliesinSkye said:
What? Unless I'm misremembering, Ami's analysis was that she couldn't get involved with Keiko without the rest of her family getting involved with Keiko, and she judged that would be bad for Keiko so she made the choice to push her away to protect her.


Not raising hurtful subjects is called tact, it's not 'managing someone's emotions for them'. That's silly.
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Her analysis was that their sisterly bond would be ruthlessly exploited, and so had to be destroyed in Keiko and every observer's minds. As far as anyone else can know, she no longer thinks of Keiko as a beloved sister. She's a polite acquaintance entitled to empty smiles when they cross paths.
 
Soo, since the we've conquered our fears of social interaction, how about arranging a nice lunch with Hinata? She's much safer than Ami, we're on fairly friendly terms, her socials aren't strictly superior to Hazou's, and there's significant benefit to figuring out where she stands.
 
Roomba said:
Soo, since the we've conquered our fears of social interaction, how about arranging a nice lunch with Hinata? She's much safer than Ami, we're on fairly friendly terms, her socials aren't strictly superior to Hazou's, and there's significant benefit to figuring out where she stands.
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Well, I suppose Noburi is less likely to actually kill us than Keiko is...
 
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