Essentially modify the seals detection-response mechanism to work on a gradient.

Okay, so gradient response is too difficult and we're stuck with binary detection.

I will note there are two problems we're trying to solve here:
  1. Someone can just use chakra adhesion to render the seals functionally inert (no discernment between stronger and weaker jutsu).
  2. Seals are binary response (no discernment between close range and farther out).
Keiko's suggestion is aimed at #1, but would also solve #2. I'm more concerned about #2 tbh.

We can approximate being able to detect on a gradient by having multiple seals at each location on our body, each with differing detection ranges.

So for example, in a single pouch on the chest we'd have 5 seals, one for 20m, 15m, 10m, 5m, 2m (we can play around a bit to find the optimal number and ranges). With some practice, we should be able to detect roughly what the distance is due to the total strength of the vibration.

Note that there's an inverse relationship between number of vibration modalities and our sensitivity (4x base vibration strength to 5x base vibration strength should be noticeable, 19x to 20x isn't going to be). Of course we could tune the strength of the vibrations way down and crank up the number of seals so that it would almost be an analog signal, but then we have a much weaker signal at the extreme distances.


E: Oh, and because we have seals spread across our body, we still gain a lot of extra resolution around the transitions. So for example we'd know very precisely where things are if they're closer to boundary transitions.

E2: Actually, I have a better solution. We could just have one seal set at max range to detect *any* jutsu, and have it pulse in a distinct pattern so the signal isn't confused with the others. Then a second with a different distinct pattern within some "critical" range. Then we could just go with lots of seals with low vibration strength and a number of range thresholds for directional and distance signals.
 
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  1. Seals are binary response (no discernment between close range and farther out).
Keiko's suggestion is aimed at #1, but would also solve #2. I'm more concerned about #2 tbh.

We can approximate being able to detect on a gradient by having multiple seals at each location on our body, each with differing detection ranges.
We can try floating range adjustments /detection shape by Kagome, see if he thinks it will be easier.

We currently have ~2 days left, and I'm not sure that it would be a fruitful use of our time to begin a research project now. I'd like to spend time on other pursuits so that we can hit the ground running on this money thing.

In spirit of that, I think that spending whatever free time we have between now and arriving at Mist printing explosives would probably be a good idea. At best, we'll sell them later. At worst, we might need them for something (just in case).
 
We can try floating range adjustments /detection shape by Kagome, see if he thinks it will be easier.

We currently have ~2 days left, and I'm not sure that it would be a fruitful use of our time to begin a research project now. I'd like to spend time on other pursuits so that we can hit the ground running on this money thing.

In spirit of that, I think that spending whatever free time we have between now and arriving at Mist printing explosives would probably be a good idea. At best, we'll sell them later. At worst, we might need them for something (just in case).

We don't actually have to do any research, aside from cranking up the detection range. The rest of it is maybe a couple hours of practice and fiddling, plus the time to scribe the seals.

This will substantially increase the efficacy of our detection system and is well worth our time.
 
We don't actually have to do any research, aside from cranking up the detection range. The rest of it is maybe a couple hours of practice and fiddling, plus the time to scribe the seals.

This will substantially increase the efficacy of our detection system and is well worth our time.
My understanding is that the range is fixed and that we would have to invent a new variant with different and/or adjustable ranges, and that this is perhaps nontrivial. I can put a "If Kagome says it'll be easier, then do that for the next two days." clause at the beginning.
 
Needs more CHAOS. (Specifically minor improvements to address the "cons" from the update.)

E: Also, just spend the FP so we can get the research done.
TN is too high. We've also just done about ~7 failed research rolls which:

1)Keeps us at the 0% completion mark by my reckoning.
2) It's likely that one of those seven was a decently high roll. So the TN is beyond even our skills + the dice gods' merciful bonus.

Let's take a step back and regroup before we blow all our FP and give Hazou some consequences and whatnot and not actually get the seal. I don't think we can actually complete it in two days....
I'd like to suggest someone go back and carefully read the rules about sealing research, as there are some misapprehensions going on. Among other things, it's possible to go negative on research successes.

I'm reasonably confident that most of the players have not read the research rules both carefully and recently, since they are new and long. It's also quite possible that we didn't write them as clearly as necessary, so, if there is anything that seems fuzzy, please say so that we may fix it.

Finally, because this is the first time we've done this and we're still sorting things out, I'll offer one piece of OOC information so that we aren't all wasting time and getting frustrated: The TN is within Hazō's grasp as long as he takes his time with the research, but you are not going to finish it in the next two days.

@Velorien , I know you don't think we should be giving out information like this, and I agree. I won't be doing it in future, but the rules are new and we went a long time without giving players feedback on their efforts, so I think it's worth bending a bit this time in the interest of everyone having fun and avoiding salt.

One thing that stood out was Macerators were unwieldy to activate. I propose adding a (very) slight delay timer to those on the suit to avoid this, but there might be better options.

At some point today I'll go back over it and make a comprehensive list
For what it's worth, I didn't envision them as hard to operate. Certainly not in a way that is relevant to game mechanics.
 
I'd like to suggest someone go back and carefully read the rules about sealing research, as there are some misapprehensions going on. Among other things, it's possible to go negative on research successes.

I'm reasonably confident that most of the players have not read the research rules both carefully and recently, since they are new and long. It's also quite possible that we didn't write them as clearly as necessary, so, if there is anything that seems fuzzy, please say so that we may fix it.
Ah. It doesn't exactly make it clear that ResearchSuccessCount can dip into the negatives.

I've skimmed it this morning, but I decided that given the ~7 failures that it just plain wouldn't be fruitful to spend time on it (whether or not we can do the Burnout or the incremental bonus from # days spent on it to exclusion of other stuff, capped at 2xAspect Bonus thing).

Here it is, for everyone that wants a look but can't be arsed to go into google docs:

Mechanics of Seal Research


  1. At any time of their choosing so long as they have time and equipment, the researcher may create a prototype seal by making a Sealcrafting roll vs a Target Number based on the seal's complexity. The TN is not explicitly shown to the researcher, and must be inferred based on roll results.

  2. Success shifts are added to the research total. Failures are deducted (representing research setbacks, and how some seals are just unreachable at certain skill levels.) Sufficiently bad failures may, at QM discretion, result in sealing failures.

  3. When the research total equals the complexity, the seal is complete.

  4. The researcher may acquire bonuses by invoking Aspects acquired in-story, such as "Jiraiya Looked Over My Math", "Kagome-certified Lab", "Very Specific Warnings From Nara Shikaku", or "Detailed Research Notes".

    1. As always, spending FP and using Aspects are at the ultimate discretion of the QMs; the QM writing an update will take into consideration whether the character(s) involved did enough narratively in the lead-up to an attempt to allow them to spend a Fate Point on that roll. As normal, FP can also be spent on bonuses for half of what you would get from invoking an Aspect, or to reroll a bad roll.
  5. The researcher also gains a +2 point bonus for every consecutive day spent on nothing but research and rest, up to a maximum of 2x their Aspect bonus for Sealing. This bonus is reset after each research roll, representing preparations for that particular prototype being expended. You can in principle forego this bonus and research on the go, but only an idiot (and/or Jiraiya) will do this because you're seriously increasing your odds of failing rolls and setting yourself back.

This mechanic can, in principle, be applied to other forms of research and development, including ninjutsu, genjutsu, medicine, and, with some modification, taijutsu/weapons styles, replacing sealing failures with injuries or other consequences as appropriate.

Assistance
If another sealmaster is helping you full-time then they may spend a Fate Point to invoke an Aspect and contribute their Aspect bonus to your research roll. You may not benefit from more than one such bonus -- the nature of sealing is such that the difficulties of coordination rapidly outweigh the advantages.


Note that Kagome spending his FP to help Hazou is mutually exclusive to Hazou spending his own FP to invoke Aspects directly related to Kagome's help ("Kagome Looking Over My Shoulder"), but not exclusive to Hazou spending his FP to invoke related but independent Aspects ("Kagome-Certified Sealing Lab").

Burnout
A researcher who believes they are on the cusp of completion may fill up narratively appropriate Consequence slots on the physical and/or mental tracks -- e.g. 'hasn't eaten' and 'groggy', respectively -- representing pushing themselves past their limits with all-nighters etc. They gain a one-time bonus for each Consequence they choose to take: +1 point for Mild, +3 points for Moderate, and +9 points for Severe.


This bonus applies only to the next roll, meaning that if the roll isn't enough to complete the seal, they have seriously screwed themselves over for the next one (as well as for non-sealing activities).


The maluses from these Consequences begin taking effect after the roll in question, and they recover over time according to their magnitude; see table under Consequences and Injury.

Veterancy
Knowing related seals and/or more seals will reduce the complexity. The exact amount is up to the QMs judgement and will not be revealed.


 
Isn't that the word for when Naruto punches people in the face until they become his friends? If so, I wholeheartedly approve of you practicing this on Tsunade. I could use an extra 8 hours in my Sundays. ;>

Meanwhile, at Paizo:


Edit:
Source is Pathfinder Player Companion: Martial Arts Handbook
 
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Attention everyone!

After much thought, I have come to the conclusion that one of the major factors involved in Hazou's obliviousness is that there is so much OOC information floating around that no one is quite sure what we can and cannot have Hazou infer. In order to rectify this problem and hopefully improve Hazou's social insight I have created the Perceptive Hazou Initiative; a database of social clues that Hazou has seen in character. I've spent the last few hours searching the chapters since Fated to Die came out for clues, starting with those relating to KeiTen since that is currently the most annoying example of Hazou's obliviousness. It's a table in google docs that can be freely edited, so if anyone wants to help find information they can.

Hopefully this project will allow us to guide Hazou's characterisation towards perceptiveness.
 

"Trivial" as far as sealing goes IMO is a few days worth of time expenditure to modify something.

"Nontrivial" is something thats not... that.

Attention everyone!

After much thought, I have come to the conclusion that one of the major factors involved in Hazou's obliviousness is that there is so much OOC information floating around that no one is quite sure what we can and cannot have Hazou infer. In order to rectify this problem and hopefully improve Hazou's social insight I have created the Perceptive Hazou Initiative; a database of social clues that Hazou has seen in character. I've spent the last few hours searching the chapters since Fated to Die came out for clues, starting with those relating to KeiTen since that is currently the most annoying example of Hazou's obliviousness. It's a table in google docs that can be freely edited, so if anyone wants to help find information they can.

Hopefully this project will allow us to guide Hazou's characterisation towards perceptiveness.
This is really awesome, by the way!! Thanks!
 
I'd like to suggest someone go back and carefully read the rules about sealing research, as there are some misapprehensions going on. Among other things, it's possible to go negative on research successes.
We were told there were seven days of sealing failures, though, not "no progress", and sealing failures are referred to as a result of "sufficiently bad failures", which I interpret perhaps overcautiously as "-2XAspect bonus". Given that we made seven rolls, this would require that the TN either be something like 30 or higher (not that there's a difference between 30 and 32, with 4DF as they are...), or for us to have rolled abysmally low.
 
Attention everyone!

After much thought, I have come to the conclusion that one of the major factors involved in Hazou's obliviousness is that there is so much OOC information floating around that no one is quite sure what we can and cannot have Hazou infer. In order to rectify this problem and hopefully improve Hazou's social insight I have created the Perceptive Hazou Initiative; a database of social clues that Hazou has seen in character. I've spent the last few hours searching the chapters since Fated to Die came out for clues, starting with those relating to KeiTen since that is currently the most annoying example of Hazou's obliviousness. It's a table in google docs that can be freely edited, so if anyone wants to help find information they can.

Hopefully this project will allow us to guide Hazou's characterisation towards perceptiveness.
While I don't agree with all of your conclusions, I must admit to being impressed, in a terrified kind of way. I expect to have nightmares tonight about faflec joining your initiative. (Not tagging in the forlorn hope that he overlooks this whole thing.)
 
Just thought she was an interesting character and wanted her as our future student. But maybe that can still happen and we can show her the power of punching real hard.
"I see you're petrified with terror, a longing for the release of death deep within your eyes. That's very nice of you. Now could you please stay that way while I practise the Gentle Fist?"
 
While I don't agree with all of your conclusions, I must admit to being impressed, in a terrified kind of way. I expect to have nightmares tonight about faflec joining your initiative. (Not tagging in the forlorn hope that he overlooks this whole thing.)
Already seen it, sorry. Though I could be...ahhh...convinced to not contribute...
 
"I see you're petrified with terror, a longing for the release of death deep within your eyes. That's very nice of you. Now could you please stay that way while I practise the Gentle Fist?"
I was thinking more adopting her into the clan and having Akane teach her her own fighting style. :whistle:
 
We were told there were seven days of sealing failures, though, not "no progress", and sealing failures are referred to as a result of "sufficiently bad failures", which I interpret perhaps overcautiously as "-2XAspect bonus". Given that we made seven rolls, this would require that the TN either be something like 30 or higher (not that there's a difference between 30 and 32, with 4DF as they are...), or for us to have rolled abysmally low.
That's not quite how it works.

"I see you're petrified with terror, a longing for the release of death deep within your eyes. That's very nice of you. Now could you please stay that way while I practise the Gentle Fist?"
Now you're just being mean! :cry:
 
[X] No u
  • Hang out with Keiko
    • If she gets defensive or otherwise seems uncomfortable, politely apologize for the interruption and excuse ourselves.
    • We want to be able to resist to killing intent, or other bullshit techniques.
      • Can you do that thing you do to terrify us for a bit? How do you do that, by the way?
    • Dealing with the breakup has been pretty rough on Hazou. Keiko seems to have things figured out, though. What's her secret?
    • Still want help with that escapology stuff?
    • Remind her she's pretty awesome. Definitely not looking forward to our tournament match.
  • "Heist" training
    • Practice execution with Keiko and Noburi.
      • With Hazou's experience and Keiko's estimations, what's a rough estimate of potential earnings?
        • More lucrative than scribing explosives?
      • Idea: Keiko on lookout/interference. Noburi works the charm, we intentionally flub to him, and then "go on tilt." Act as an easy target, then scoop up winnings.
      • Also bribe Yakuza, of course.
      • Any other ideas? Does Mari have advice?
  • Research:
    • Consult Kagome-sensei.
    • Prior project was too hard. Instead, we want to use an array of seals.
      • One on back to pulse in a unique pattern at max distance
      • One on chest with a different unique pattern at "critical" closer distance
      • Several in each pouch with various ranges
    • This should let us have finer-grained detection of range. We'll address other weaknesses later.
    • Only alteration is variable distance and vibration pattern. Think we can get this done in time?
  • CHAOS!
    • Practice minmax blindfighting with the suit.
      • Smoke + living roots, banshees + banshee slayers, noxious gas + tunneler's friend.
        • Banshee Grenade: Strap to rock/kunai with timed explosive.
    • Load up on some of the shields that Kagome developed. These look super useful.
    • Observe strictest safety protocols while using the suit. Use clones if unsure.
    • Refill expended seals.

Word count: 295
 
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While I don't agree with all of your conclusions, I must admit to being impressed, in a terrified kind of way. I expect to have nightmares tonight about faflec joining your initiative. (Not tagging in the forlorn hope that he overlooks this whole thing.)

Ah, ha! Enjoy the last vestiges of Hazou's obliviousness while you can, fiend! No more romcom shenanigans for you!

More seriously, isn't this useful for you guys as well, at least in principle? Assuming you don't already have a similar document maintained for private use.
 
We were told there were seven days of sealing failures, though, not "no progress", and sealing failures are referred to as a result of "sufficiently bad failures", which I interpret perhaps overcautiously as "-2XAspect bonus". Given that we made seven rolls, this would require that the TN either be something like 30 or higher (not that there's a difference between 30 and 32, with 4DF as they are...), or for us to have rolled abysmally low.
To be precise, you had two incidents of near-sealing-failure in a disastrous week.

Already seen it, sorry. Though I could be...ahhh...convinced to not contribute...
I'll talk to the other QMs about bri- additional recognition of your contributions to the quest.
 
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