I don't think people are understanding my proposal. It's literally just a box, a seal, and something to attach the box to yourself (like a rope or a sled). No mechanical parts whatsoever. Definitely no rotation.

Storage Seals require one contiguous object, or a container that holds liquid or fragments/particles. One objection to macerators is that the seal-unseal won't work because the output is ground up.

Obviously, research a mod that maintains object integrity (as regular storage seals) with the macerator output speed.
That gives you 20x100 = 2000 N-s of impulse per seal-unseal cycle. Say a person with gear is ~100 kg. Gravity on that person exerts ~ 1000 N. To overcome gravity, one requires more than one activation every two seconds. Plausible.


For a human holding the propulsion box:
Drag looks something like 1/2 * rho * vel^2 * A *Cd.
Rho (fluid density) is about 1.225 kg/m^3
Say vel (speed relative to fluid) is minimum 20 m/s to be minimally viable.
A (cross-sectional area perpendicular to direction of travel) is tricky for humans with equipment - say 1 m^2 for simplicity
Cd is also tricky. I'd take a skydiver for comparison - I think about .6-.8 is about right (haven't looked this value up in a while)
So something like 200 N to overcome the drag force at 20 m/s with these assumptions.
1800 N at 60 m/s.
Plausible.

Assume any efficiencies in Lift are lost to adjustments for control.

Some portion of sea-unseal cycle will need to be allocated to overcome both Gravity and Drag.

The harness that connects the body to the propulsion box will need to be sufficiently padded so that the transferral of 2000 N-s over couple of milliseconds will not injure the traveler. Vehicles clearly help in this regard, but might strain the ability of a single seal-unseal device.

Vehicles change the A and Cd assumptions.


Why wouldn't anyone have put these to use? Most known storage seals require zero relative velocity at intake, and also have zero relative velocity at release. Therefore, most storage seals do not produce momentum at the point of release, despite possibly increasing gravitational potential.

If we accept that Macerators (or similar convergent developments) are virtually unknown, it follows that there are no similar storage seals for the concept to take off.

Convergent developments likely have origins as our did - for combat purposes, and those who use it explicitly for combat with high OPSEC will likely not consider utility purposes, either for lack of insight in physical mechanics or because the risk of letting other people see exactly how the seal works might lessen their combat effectiveness.
 
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Storage Seals require one contiguous object, or a container that holds liquid or fragments/particles. One objection to macerators is that the seal-unseal won't work because the output is ground up.
Again, it doesn't have to be. We choose on infusion time how ground up we want things, all the way down to "not at all".
e:
Hm, do we have numbers on the speed of matter as dispatched from macerators? Are they constant velocity, constant energy, or constant momentum?

I'd expect that very light things may be thrown with high speed, but massive things won't; this means that you can have good acceleration (heavy things) or high max speed (light things) but both is tricky. This is assuming dispatched matter velocity is relative to earth, not the seal.

Also, braking is a thing we would have to figure out :p
20 m/s regardless of mass.
 
I'm sort of confused by the education stuff. Shouldn't it be expected for a student with private tutoring to excel? Especially if that tutoring is done one on one from an experienced professional, who'd normally never have to time to offer such services? It seems more likely that Hazou isn't good because of amazing teaching methods but because of one on one tutoring. Teaching for one student is far different than teaching a class. One student allows for a far more reactive approach. It comes down to economies of scale. It's also why futurists think AI could bring about a revolution in education. I'm not saying that Kagome couldn't offer insights to better the education programs. I just doubt that it'll make a dramatic difference. Though opening a discourse on teaching methods could have great long term effects.

Heh shadow clone teaching could be interesting if it weren't for opsec.
 
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As far as I can tell, the only real disagreements we have is why I want Empathy to be a long-term drip rather than a flat target, and that you may have thought I wasn't allocating enough XP to Alertness/Chakra early on (which I do think I covered). Does that feel accurate to you?
1) I am pretty much agreeing with you, just discussing implementation
2) You can factor in "Spend 10% of total XP/month on Empathy" until CR and Alertness are good. I'm being pessimistic on our XP gain anyway.

My point was that we don't have to focus on leveling up Empathy so much in one go, because its pretty cheap compared to everything else. We can split XP into these 3 stats (proportioned as we need/discussed above) and over the course of 6-8 months they will be pretty good. At that point, we can just slam ~100 XP a month into Chakra Reserves until we get Shadow Clones and use any excess XP for whatever.
 
Storage Seals require one contiguous object, or a container that holds liquid or fragments/particles. One objection to macerators is that the seal-unseal won't work because the output is ground up.

Obviously, research a mod that maintains object integrity (as regular storage seals) with the macerator output speed.
That gives you 20x100 = 2000 N-s of impulse per seal-unseal cycle. Say a person with gear is ~100 kg. Gravity on that person exerts ~ 1000 N. To overcome gravity, one requires more than one activation every two seconds. Plausible.

I thikn the math is off - you need to consider the weight of the propelling mass when you consider how much impulse you get? When the unsealed mass hits your pusher, it will only transfer the energy needed to even out your velocities, not all that it has. So if a 100kg mass at +20m/s is carrying a 100kg cargo, each after contact both masses should be moving at 10m/s (neglecting thermal / mechanical waste).

(conservation of energy & momentum would imply that the propelling mass does actually stop and transfer all of the energy to the cargo; but unless our seal timing is exactly on point, the stopped mass will hit the other edge of the box and shed extra energy until velocities align)

20 m/s regardless of mass.

Hm, so if it wasn't relative to the seal it would be noticably slower when running at ninja speed?
 
I thikn the math is off - you need to consider the weight of the propelling mass when you consider how much impulse you get? When the unsealed mass hits your pusher, it will only transfer the energy needed to even out your velocities, not all that it has. So if a 100kg mass at +20m/s is carrying a 100kg cargo, each after contact both masses should be moving at 10m/s (neglecting thermal / mechanical waste).

(conservation of energy & momentum would imply that the propelling mass does actually stop and transfer all of the energy to the cargo; but unless our seal timing is exactly on point, the stopped mass will hit the other edge of the box and shed extra energy until velocities align)



Hm, so if it wasn't relative to the seal it would be noticably slower when running at ninja speed?
It's also relative to the seal. But it adds 20 m/s to whatever speed it's moving at.
 
[] Proto-plan: Clues, Clones, and Classwork
  • Have the Akane conversation.
  • Do Ami-style training to find out if it gives us bonus XP.
  • Have J cast SC and then refill from Noburi, to see if that works. If it does then congrats: J can use more SCs now. Noburi should also get checked out by Kabuto, but beware of Triple Cost.
  • Meet Ebisu.
 
1) I am pretty much agreeing with you, just discussing implementation
2) You can factor in "Spend 10% of total XP/month on Empathy" until CR and Alertness are good. I'm being pessimistic on our XP gain anyway.

My point was that we don't have to focus on leveling up Empathy so much in one go, because its pretty cheap compared to everything else. We can split XP into these 3 stats (proportioned as we need/discussed above) and over the course of 6-8 months they will be pretty good. At that point, we can just slam ~100 XP a month into Chakra Reserves until we get Shadow Clones and use any excess XP for whatever.
It looks like we're in agreement then, barring any significant events that change our priorities, but what are the odds of that happening?
 
I guess I am unclear on what you are proposing. You have a box, a macerator seal, and a X kg weight. What happens next?

I was assuming you were gonna store the weight, attach the seal to one side of the box, build a new thing / modify the seal to trigger repeatedly, build a new thing/seal to control the timing of the repetition and be able to start/stop it, figure out the frequency of seal/reseal that allows the momentum of the weight to transfer to the box without rebounding and hitting the back edge. That's a bunch of new stuff to make.


It works like this:
  1. Hazō seals the object.
  2. Hazō unseals the object and braces for the impact.
  3. Hazō seals the object.
  4. Hazō unseals the object and braces for the impact.
  5. Hazō seals the object.
  6. Hazō unseals the object and braces for the impact.
  7. ...etc
 
Again, it doesn't have to be. We choose on infusion time how ground up we want things, all the way down to "not at all".
e:

20 m/s regardless of mass.

Here is the initial write up on Macerators from Jello_Raptor
[] Training Hazou : Research Sealing Modularization

Edit: This entire thing is longer and more detailed than I intended, but I think there's a lot of things deserving critique in here and would appreciate anyone with the patience to read it all. If you're not one of those people, feel free to skip to the Research Plan and the orange bits.

Introduction: At the moment, sealing looks like the good old days of programming or electrical engineering. Where each program or circuit has to be lovingly crafted bit by bit in order to work efficiently within the constraints of the system at the time, whether those constraints are imposed by memory, power, die space, or inefficient components. These constraints don't seem to exist in the same sense for sealing. Instead our constraints are correctness and reproducibility. Sealmasters have to be extremely careful and efficient because every additional stroke in a design is another place where things could go wrong, and when things go wrong in sealing they go extremely wrong.

Thing is, Hazou has Iron Nerve. Iron nerve makes it easy to reproduce mechanical actions perfectly. If Hazou can get a seal right once, he can get it right every time. However, if he follows the standard paradigm of sealing he still has to perform a slow and dangerous development process in order to create the first seal of any kind.

Instead we want Hazou to change his style of sealing and his design process to make it more modular. This would allow him to create small seal components with his current process, but combine them into more complex assemblies cheaply and easily, with significantly less risk.

Goals: Convert Hazou's sealing style into one focused around small, simple components that can be connected together into larger assemblies. Ideally each new component can be researched as a new seal with the standard rules, but any seals made up of already existing components can be created very quickly with a significant bonus to safety during their creation and testing.

Details: Components are treated as discrete functional blocks, with well defined interfaces that govern how they can interact with each other. These components will have a notion of composition, much like a strong type system in a modern programming language, that will allow him to examine the seal and efficiently catch errors before any live testing.

All components will have the following properties:
  • Core Function: This is just the main thing the component does.
  • Configuration Properties: These are properties that are set when the component is written down, but are designed to be easily chosen and to work over a lange of possible values. Like the color of a light emitting component, or the radius of an explosive component. It's assumed that there's an output corresponding to each configuration property, so that other components can see how other portions of the seal are configured.
  • Interfaces: These are inputs and outputs to each component that can be connected to other components, and can carry signals of various types. Output interfaces can be left unconnected without any issue, and input interfaces should always be tied to some output.
When designing a component, it should be tested to work over the entire range of configuration properties and inputs, so that even when a larger seal fails, it fails because the components were doing the correct task at the wrong time. For instance, a chakra based alarm would fail by triggering at the wrong time, rather than causing horrors from beyond space and time to appear.

Component Research Options:

Light Output (Fixed Color):
  • Core Function: Displays a light when the input says so.
  • Configuration Properties:
    • Color: The color of the light to display.
  • Interfaces:
    • Brightness: An analog signal input that ranges from 0% to 100%, and controls the current displayed brightness of the light.
Logic:
  • Core Function: A lot of them, this covers all sorts of logic gates, constant values, analog signal amplifiers and filters, threshold detectors, hysteresis, stored values, etc..
Chakra Pulse Input (Singular):
  • Core Function: A way for users of a seal to input certain configuration parameters on the fly. A chakra pulse by the user sets an internal analog value output. There's no way for a user to direct a pulse to a particular chakra seal input, so all inputs on a seal act the same.
  • Configuration Properties: None.
  • Interfaces:
    • Hold: A digital signal input that tells the seal whether it should accept new inputs or not.
    • Trigger Output: Trigger signal output that sends a signal when a chakra pulse is detected.
    • Value Output: An analog signal output that captures the value of the last chakra pulse detected.
State Machine:
  • Core Function: Allows Hazou to define an arbitrary state machine, with various input triggers causing state transitions and state transitions triggering output signals. This is primarily a convenient abstraction over the basic logic components that makes life easier for everyone. It's easier than doing the full on digital logic translation, since we could build a generic block that uses a configurable transition matrix rather than creating completely new circuit every time.
  • Configuration Properties:
    • The state machine itself.
  • Interfaces: Arbitrary, changes based on the state machine itself. All inputs and outputs are trigger signals.
Delay Timer:
  • Core Function: Delays signals from set input to trigger output. Has an internal countdown, and a waiting state where it's just waiting for a trigger to occur. Always starts in the waiting state.
  • Configuration Properties: None.
  • Interfaces:
    • Set Input: Accepts trigger signals, internally starts counting down. If there's already a countdown, it starts the countdown again.
    • Reset Input: When a trigger signal is sent and there's a current countdown, stops counting down and sets the seal into a waiting state. Otherwise, sets the seal into waiting state.
    • Trigger Output: Sends a trigger signal when the countdown finishes, then moves into a waiting state.
    • Countdown Speed: An analog signal input that defines the speed at the which the countdown progress. Allows for a range of minutes to milliseconds for the countdown to complete. This would be connected to a chakra pulse input in order to provide on-the-fly timing configurability.
    • Current Countdown: An analog signal output that allows other components to see the current state of the countdown.
    • Is Waiting: A digital signal output that allows other components to see whether the timer is in the waiting state or not.
Sound Output (Frequency-based):
  • Core Function: Plays a tone of the specific frequency at some input volume.
  • Configuration Properties: None.
  • Interfaces:
    • Frequency: An analog signal input that controls the frequency the seal should be using. Range from 10Hz to 30kHz.
    • Amplitude: An analog signal input that controls the amplitude of the output sound. Should range from 0% to 100%
Sound Output (Sampling-based):
  • Core Function: Plays a sound by modulating local air-pressure somehow, in much the same way as a modern speaker.
  • Configuration Properties: None.
  • Interfaces:
    • Position: An analog signal that ranges from 0% to 100% that is analogous to the position of the vibrating membrane in a real world speaker. No matter what the actual method of action is.
Implosion:
  • Core Function: Seals all air in a radius around the seal. If destroyed, will release the currently stored air. If the sealed volume is large enough that the inrush shock destroys the component, this acts like a standard implosion explosive seal.
  • Configuration Properties:
    • Radius: The radius of air to be sealed and the
  • Interfaces:
    • Store: When a trigger signal is sent while the seal is empty it will store the air within the specified radius. Otherwise does nothing.
    • Release: If a trigger signal is sent when the seal is full, it will release the currently stored air. Otherwise does nothing.
    • State:A digital signal output for whether the seal is storing air at the current moment or not.
Storage:
  • Core Function: Stores objects placed on top of it. When full, a portion of the component displays a kanji symbol.
  • Configuration Properties: None, unless the current storage seal has config parameters.
  • Interfaces:
    • Store: When a trigger signal is sent while the seal is empty it will store the items on top the seal. Otherwise does nothing.
    • Release: If a trigger signal is sent when the seal is full, it will release the currently stored items. Otherwise does nothing.
    • State: A digital signal output for whether the seal is storing anything at the current moment or not.
Macerator:
  • Core Function: Stores items placed upon it, shredding them into pieces. Can release the pieces as a cloud in the surrounding air, and while moving at a chosen velocity. Depending on exact settings and stored objects, can be used to create mist (stored water), fuel-air mixtures (dry wood, coal, or other flammable material), poison cloud (poison), pepper clouds (extremely spicy mixtures), shrapnel bombs (rocks, metal, or other hard things), etc..
  • Configuration Properties:
    • Particle size: The size for resulting particles of shredded materials. Should be able to hit range from tens of nanometers (talcum powder) to centimeters.
    • Aeration Fraction: When released, controls the size of the resulting cloud such that the particles make up some percent of resulting mixture and air the rest. Range from 1% to 100% of the mixture, by density.
    • Particle Velocity: The velocity of particles upon release. Should be configurable from a range of 0m/s (still) to ~300m/s (shrapnel).
  • Interfaces:
    • Store: When a trigger signal is sent while the seal is empty it will store the items on top the seal. Otherwise does nothing.
    • Release: If a trigger signal is sent when the seal is full, it will release the currently stored items in a cloud as per the configuration parameters. Otherwise does nothing.
    • State: A digital signal output for whether the seal is storing anything at the current moment or not.
Chakra Detection (Spherical,Indiscriminate):
  • Core Function: Detects chakra use in the local vicinity. It should ignore the chakra in the seal itself. This version does not attempt to distinguish between chakra users, or other chakra sources.
  • Configuration Properties:
    • Radius: The radius within which to detect chakra use. Range should go from 0m to as large as possible. Explore possible trade offs with accuracy. Make this an interface if it's easy for shenanigans w/ scanning and triangulation.
  • Interfaces:
    • Detection: An analog signal output that captures the amount of chakra use detected within the radius. Possibly modulated by the position of the chakra source, relative to the seal.
Sealcrafting IDE: The final step of the seal modularization project is a project to make it easier to develop seals quickly, a basic development environment for seals that allows for very rapid prototyping and possibly testing.

Inert Prototyping: The inert prototyping tool is a board with slots for components that are shaped as squares or rectangles with a minimum 'pixel size'. It looks like the board for a Klotski puzzle, with grooves that can hold tiles in place securely. Each tile can have a diagram representing a component on it, with inputs and outputs on its various faces.

Because inputs and outputs have specific types, that can't be mixed in a number of well-defined ways, we can design squares like jigsaw puzzle pieces. By carefully choosing the shape of tiles we can enforce design constraints. For instance we can make analog IO interfaces have circular projections/notions, and digital IO interfaces have square ones. That way you cannot connect a digital interface to an analog one without breaking the tile. We could color the inputs on components red, and shape them in such a way that the red bit is covered when there's something connected to it, making it easy to find when we've left unconnected inputs for various components.

This gives us a quick way to sketch out design ideas, and make sure we're not doing anything hugely stupid. If we get a design we like, we can copy it into a notebook and convert it to an active seal.

Akane can help us build this.

Live Prototyping: Admittedly, there's not much benefit to the inert prototyping method over a notebook or chalkboard. However we might be able to take the idea a step further by making the tiles actual seal components, designed so that when the click together they actual seals connect together. To do this we'd use a pantograph to inscribe actual components onto the tiles from an inert version of the IDE. That way we can click tiles together, and immediately test.

We should also probably find a way to make the boards and tiles cheaply, since we're going to be losing many of them to testing.

Research Plan: Here's a basic plan for converting our sealing style into something significantly more modular and efficient. The intention is that each bullet is an intermediate research goal, and that we can make partial progress as we research getting the benefits of each step as they become available. Likewise, if we roll really well for a research project, we should just move onto the next step in the list and start working on that. I'm also optimizing for safety here, under the assumption that seals with small effects are much more likely to have small failure modes1​, hence getting the light first and testing with that.
  1. Show the in-character version of this entire plan to Kagome for comments and critique.
  2. Reverse engineer the casino seal to design the basic light output component. Try to allow choice of color, don't worry about it if it's not easy though.
  3. Incrementally develop the basic suite of logic components and the chakra pulse input, use the light output component as an output element for testing. A lot of the basics here should already be part of existing seals, just need to be encapsulated better.
  4. Develop the delay timer and state machine component, using the chakra pulse and light components as input and output. Test each component rigorously.
  5. Get Akane to help with making an inert version of the Searcrafting IDE for the speed bonus to developing assemblies of components into larger seals.
  6. Develop assemblies that mimic storage seals, explosive seals, PMYFv1, and Macerator, albeit with lights blinking instead of any actual action.
  7. Reverse engineer the casino seals to develop whichever sound output component is closest to what's actually available. Again, try to allow things choosing the frequency, but focus on just getting something working, even if we don't get as much versatility as the spec above.
  8. Convert Implosion into a component that fits into our framework easily, then develop the complete modular Implosion seal. Mind, we already made blinky light versions of the full seal, so this should just have us replace the lights with the actual implosion seal.
  9. Convert Storage into a component that fits into our framework easily, then develop the complete modular Storage seal using the blinky light version as the base.
  10. Develop the modular version of the PMYFv1 seal using the blinky light version as the base.
  11. Convert Macerator into a component that fits into our framework easily, then develop the complete modular macerator seal using the blinky light version as the base.
  12. Reverse engineer casino seals to develop chakra detection component. Focus on extracting basic chakra sensing component, but keep an eye out for whether the original seals have any directionality and ability to discriminate between seals, friendlies, etc...
  13. Develop a few other seals as a further test of the modular development process:
    1. Explosive Mines: You set a timer on them, after which they're armed and any chakra use above a certain threshold within the radius triggers them. Test this with lights and sounds before making genuinely explosive versions.
    2. Warning Lights: Simple, basically just the casino seals but modified so that they detect chakra use within a shell, rather than a sphere. Two chakra detectors of different radius, where the light comes on when the 'chakra use in the large shell' minus 'chakra use in the small shell' is greater than some threshold.
    3. Extrasensory: Seals meant to be worn tight against the skin, under padding. When chakra use is detected within radius, they vibrate at a low frequency (using the sound seal) and a low amplitude corresponding to the degree of chakra use. If the chakra sensor detects a lower amount of chakra based on distance, wear a ring of them constantly on thin cloth belt. Otherwise, probably still wear a ring of them constantly on a thin cloth belt, for redundancy and the tinier amount of direction info you get. (See Northpaw) If we can find a way to channel chakra in patterns then we can get basic silent comms.
    4. Teraport Denial: Time-delayed sealing scrolls. Slap them onto kawarimi capable objects, or throw kunai with them attached into kawarimi capable objects. They get stored right before an enemy can use them, tripping them up. Hell, when mixed with our other kunai+seal based shenanigans this could be Roki v2. Not only will our enemy be confused by our taijutsu, but we're constantly changing the landscape for tacmove in unpredictable ways, since each kunai could do a number of things. Maybe make versions that use the macerator seal instead, creating clouds of sawdust for no particularly good reason. (We can choose macerator settings that are unlikely to create flammable clouds, just lots of wood/stone confetti.)
  14. Test miniaturization of seals/components with a pantograph, see how small we can get them without them failing or major redesign being needed.
  15. Test and develop the live IDE for further bonuses to research speed for seals using components that already exist. Be very careful with this.
Proposed Crunch: This will hopefully do two things to the sealing process, reduce research time and increase safety.

If the research project is for a completely new component, then the research requirement is calculated as it is now, taking into account similarity to existing seals and access to similar seals that we can reverse engineer. Likewise, all rolls for safety during R&D stay the same.

If the research project is for a new seal, made up of components that we have already developed, then shrink the base research requirement by some factor corresponding to the testing resources we have, give us some additional dice when testing. You might also want to consider toning down the weird-ass failure modes on these projects, since those bugs should be worked out as we develop and test the components.

Proposed modifiers:
  • After modularization:
    • research cost = base research cost x 0.4
    • testing safety dice = base testing safety dice * 1.5
  • After modularization and with inert IDE:
    • research cost = base research cost x 0.3
    • testing safety dice = base testing safety dice * 2
We also expect a fluffier research time gain simply because new components will be simpler than the entire seal which uses them, and are reusable.

For instance, PMYFv2 would ask for a multi-storage component which doesn't contain any of the other logic the complete PMYFv2 seal has. Developing this component would benefit from the fact that we already know how to make storage seals and the fact that it doesn't include the control logic, but not from modularity. Once we have the multi-storage component, making the surrounding control logic for PMYFv2 will take advantage of the above bonuses.

Voting: Much of the plan is optional, so there's a few things that can be dropped without too much loss.

Here's a quick list of things we can drop: Sound, Chakra Sensing, IDE, Explosive Mines, Warning Lights, Extrasensory, Teraport Denial, Miniaturization, Live IDE. Though you could always change it a bit and see if others copy you, or just ask to stop at a certain step of the research plan.

Vote for versions the research without components like follows:

[] Training Hazou : Research Sealing Modularization (w/o Sound)
[] Training Hazou : Research Sealing Modularization (w/o Sound, IDE)


At the moment my favorite version of the plan drops the Live IDE. It requires a ton of discussion with Kagome and very very careful testing of getting tiles to work well together. It might be worthwhile if it's easy, but we have no idea at the moment. I'm generally leaving it in though, because I think it's a cool idea that might be worth exploring in the future.

[] Training Hazou : Research Sealing Modularization (w/o Live IDE)

1​ This is heavily implied by Kagome's last rant. The fact that all the common effects centered on manipulating the strawberry paste, rather than just picking completely randomly from the critical failure table, is very suggesting. This doesn't mean large bad effects are impossible, just less likely.

Specifically
Particle size: The size for resulting particles of shredded materials. Should be able to hit range from tens of nanometers (talcum powder) to centimeters.

If it can be larger than centimeters, that's great. I'll change it, but I was only using the things I could find references to that aren't just recollection.

Edit: im also leaning to choosing explicitly limiting interpretations adherent to observed rules to prevent shenanigans. Have we ever used a Macerator that doesn't grind an object at all?
 
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[] Proto-plan: Clues, Clones, and Classwork
  • Have the Akane conversation.
  • Do Ami-style training to find out if it gives us bonus XP.
  • Have J cast SC and then refill from Noburi, to see if that works. If it does then congrats: J can use more SCs now. Noburi should also get checked out by Kabuto, but beware of Triple Cost.
  • Meet Ebisu.
I would like to include some or all of these things. I will also try to include "Tsunade + Sasuke: Peresuade them?" in the Jiraiya scene.

I think we have expended any significant usage of "Doing the thing" for this calendar day. Maybe we can slide in the Akane convo and some time with Kagome on casino seals, but the rest can be done the next day.
 
While I feel like we shouldn't cram everything into the plans at once if we know the QMs won't be able to handle them all, are we planning to give Kabuto our proposal for quantifying chakra in these pre-montage days?
 
It works like this:
  1. Hazō seals the object.
  2. Hazō unseals the object and braces for the impact.
  3. Hazō seals the object.
  4. Hazō unseals the object and braces for the impact.
  5. Hazō seals the object.
  6. Hazō unseals the object and braces for the impact.
  7. ...etc

Thanks! I was thinking of automated ones but having a ninja to operate the device makes sense. This is probably better for propulsion than my idea of unsealing high / sealing low, whereas mine is more fit for general purpose engines.

ETA: one thing to consider is whether we have materials that can reliably take a 20m/s 100kg impact without deforming.
 
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I thikn the math is off - you need to consider the weight of the propelling mass when you consider how much impulse you get? When the unsealed mass hits your pusher, it will only transfer the energy needed to even out your velocities, not all that it has. So if a 100kg mass at +20m/s is carrying a 100kg cargo, each after contact both masses should be moving at 10m/s (neglecting thermal / mechanical waste).

(conservation of energy & momentum would imply that the propelling mass does actually stop and transfer all of the energy to the cargo; but unless our seal timing is exactly on point, the stopped mass will hit the other edge of the box and shed extra energy until velocities align)



Hm, so if it wasn't relative to the seal it would be noticably slower when running at ninja speed?

You are right, the mass would transfer momentum to the combined system mass of 200 kg - as I assume the mass comes to rest in the box before resealing
So halve the impulse given to the body per seal-unseal, and it takes 1 seal-unseal per second to overcome gravity, and more if you want to actually move against drag.
 
ETA: one thing to consider is whether we have materials that can reliably take a 20m/s 100kg impact without deforming.
I think the short-term ideal would be to have it so the seal-unseal is one near-instant action (so it's really just a propulsion seal), and then use a ninja-wire net connected to a harness. This should be plenty strong, minimizes weight, gives you quick steering, works well for flight, etc.

Long-term would be to get the seal-unseal action automated.
 
[X] Action plan: Time for training

  • Meet with Ebisu
    • Find out what he has planned for us
  • Have Noburi get checked out by Kabuto to see if he can learn Shadow Clones
    • Make sure Jiraiya gives the go ahead
    • Also check to see If Noburi can give Jiraiya enough chakra to produce any additional clones
    • See if Noburi can get any more stories about Orchimaru out of Kabuto
  • Have Kei invite Tsunade to lunch
  • Send out invitations for game night
    • Invite Team Gai, Sasuke and, 3 clanless ninja
    • Don't invite Akane
  • Talk to Mari about Akane
  • Work on sealing projects with Jiraiya and Kagome
  • In his spare time Hazō works on scribing storage scrolls to facilitate trade
 
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Oh hey this makes me think of this simpler prototype, requiring only mechanically triggered seals rather than specific timing:

1. Imagine a windmill-like structure, with a bucket attached to the end of each blade
2. each bucket contains a reusable storage seal containing a weight; the seal has a mechanical trigger attached to it that extends above the bucket
3. as the blades rotate over the top end of the structure, something pushes the mechanical trigger, causing the weight to be unsealed
4. similarly at the bottom, the weight in the bucket is sealed again

You are now producing as much energy as you can transfer on rotating axles, for as long as a resealable storage seal lasts for. It does not require propulsion from the seal itself. You can probably build a train with this.


Actually with big enough weights this could be worthwile even without the mechanical trigger, fi that's a problem; have a genin sitting at the top and the bottom, just triggering slowly passing by seals. You can convert high-momentum(torque?)-slow-rotation into faster rotation with gears later on.

You mean similar to this, but with windmills instead of pistons? :p

...huh.

I wonder...we could make a piston engine like that. Set up a series of cylinders with crankshaft in-line or radial, doesn't matter much. Each cylinder has a storage seal with a working fluid (mineral oil or similar probably are best) sealed inside and set up to unseal near the top and re-seal near the bottom.

EDIT: so we'd just need to get PMYF to re-seal what it spat out, really.


20 m/s regardless of mass.

...somewhere out there, Issac Newton is sobbing. A macerator is, apparently, able to supply enough power to accelerate an object of arbitrary mass to 20 m/s near instantaneously.
 
Yeah, pistons require precise manufacture and good seal timing. Timing being off in a windmill just slows it down a bit, doesn't strain the material.

Excellent point. The heavier the weights and larger the windmill, the more output you'll get, meaning for really effective windmills you'll still need high material strength, but still nowhere near the precision pistons need.
 
Rough draft of plan
Am amicable to edits (I don't... really care so much about the Akane thing. At least I dont think its a priority.)

We real plan nao


Word Count: 309
[X] Action Plan: Get the Ball Rolling.

After dinner:
  • Ask Noburi for advice on dealing with girls, and other complex social situations.
    • Explain the problem with Akane, and how it was solved.
    • It's nice how a simple assurance that "they'll always be friends" fixed it.
Next day:
  • Meet Ebisu. Train, get some jutsu.
Next evening: Talk to Jiraiya.
  • Trade Idea: Caravan Scroll Proposal.
    • Ninja convoys equipped with large amounts of storage scrolls would be able to transport trade goods overland, very quickly and in large amounts.
      • Do they exist already?
      • Their capacity could be increased further if our clan developed larger storage seals.
    • Possible uses:
      • Improving relations with Merchant Council (if we provide them first opportunities on trades or outfit them with larger storage seals).
      • Mitigating/solving trade issues Jiraiya mentioned yesterday.
  • Anything we personally could do about clan heads' votes?
    • Tsunade can take up the mantle of the Senju clan head and leverage support for Jiraiya's reign.
      • In exchange, you could commit some resources on areas she prefers (medical, research...). It's potentially a great short-term gain in exchange for a long-term inconvenience.
      • Can Hazou melt her heart with his painful sincerity? Can Noburi inspire her?
    • Sasuke:
      • Is he the Uchiha Clan Head?
      • Any way we can secure his vote? Play off the Hyuga/Uchiha rivalry?
  • Unrelated:
    • Ask Jiraiya (master of the romantic arts!) for advice on Akane.
      • Approach as done with Noburi (see above).
    • Suggest going to the Great Library on the 7th path sometime in the future
      • Does he know about it/has he been there?
Misc:
  • Hazou spends any free time refilling seal loadouts as per this list.
  • Hazou, Kagome, and Jiraiya do more Casino Seal research.
  • Propose creative training [For QMs: Ami-style].
  • (OPSEC-sensitive) Ask Noburi if he would be willing to refill Jiraiya's chakra to maximize his SC usage.
  • Try to get a copy of Akatsuki's manifesto that Kagome mentioned he read.
 
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[X] Action plan: Time for training
[X] Action Plan: Get the Ball Rolling

Could people add having Noburi refill J to maximise his SC output please?
 
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