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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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i only want apprentices after we have made the armour for KOTS becouse then we won't have a new apprentice and proceed to lock ourselves in our room for the decade
 
...Eh, seems alright. 'S a unique material either way. I just don't want to do work for cheap.
 
UlseDovThur said:
A patent waste of an action and the prods. You have no research option here and it's highly likely that Yorri leaves next turn.
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Hmm, that's not a bad point on Yorri leaving. But where to take the action from...

Ugh, I don't WANT to not take as many actions as we can on the big fortress, Morgrim trusted us, it'd be... almost gutwrenching if we didn't.

Hm. Hmm....

Fuck it. Lasers.

[] Plan Conclave of Air And Void and LASER BEAMS.
-[] Boon from the Sky: [Cost: Start Request, [Difficult] Plated Skies Pt. 1:] A bundle of his crest feathers. In exchange, he expects a suit of armour.
-[] Prod for Prod: [Cost: 1 action] Gain x3 Yorri prods. 1 Action.
-[] The Grand Conclave/Rhunkalbrogg: [Cost: 1 action] 1 Action.
--[] Optional Write-in: Your Adamant bar and a furnace, and a shard of Voidstone.
-[] [Simple] Warded Aeries: [Cost: (2 -1) =1 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 Actions.
-[] [Simple] Vent Venting Pt. ?: [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
--[] Religious Donation: Gain 2 progress. if taken no action input required, but can add actions to overflow if desired. Lose rights to the land itself, Temple of Valaya will pay and provide material.
-[] [Simple] Cave Clearing Pt. 1: [Cost: 3 actions]
--[] Petition the Hold: [Cost: variable favours] Gain 1 progress per 10 favour, can be taken multiple times to autocompletion. 30 Favor.
-[] The Secrets of Light?: [Cost: (8 -5) =3 actions] One Action.
-- [ ] Prod Yorri: [Cost: 1 prod] Gain 1d3 +1 progress
 
Really think we should get started on the king of the skies armour. Guy did a solid job protecting the hold, and we should really get started on repaying that. So we should figure out some rare ingredient we want, call in the favour/payment and get that armour made.
 
Alratan said:
Because we live in a post-apocalyptic wasteland in the aftermath of the slaughter of huge numbers of runesmiths of various ranks.

By the same token, why do we need to rush doing any research? Why do we need to rush crafting anything? Why are you seeing teaching an apprentice as being some optional extra rather than a standard activity we should expect to be doing as the normal course of events? Having apprentices full time isn't rushing, it should just be the normal course of events when we aren['t interrupted by an apocalypse that we need to focus on.

I could very easily make the argument that as we did some research last turn, why shouldn't we wait a couple of centuries before doing any more? We've hundreds of years before the War of Vengeance kicks in and we might need those runes in anger. Runes don't make more runes, but apprentices makes more apprentices, so it's much more efficient to front load apprentices and back load everything else rather than vice versa, and benefit from the miracle of compounding.
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But that's the thing we aren't in a Post-apocalyptic scenario yet for the dwarfs our holds aren't cut off yet and skaven haven't risen from the deep to take many of them. Yes Grimnir sacrificed himself for us but by doing so he allowed us to continue to thrive and prosper.

I want to do research because at this stage of time I feel that we will get more bang for our buck if we ourselves learn more Runes to help all Dwarfkind. And personally I don't worry about having as many apprentices as possible is because we live in the golden age of dwarfs there are hundreds of other runesmiths taking on apprentices us taking on one or two more exceptional students won't change much in the long term. But us working on learning new runes or strengthening the hold and our allies will help in the long and short term.

At least that's how I see it at the moment, I'm not against taking on another apprentice and if that's what people want I'll vote for it too. I just feel we can wait another 3-4 decades before getting another that's all.
 
Rovos said:
i only want apprentices after we have made the armour for KOTS becouse then we won't have a new apprentice and proceed to lock ourselves in our room for the decade
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I've mentioned this before too and agree, plus 1 more action to the Aerie could allow for extra bonuses to match up with Morgrimm's work there. Certainly can't hurt at least.
 
We need to get an apprentice. Snorri is going nuts without apprentices to boss around. Plus with Yorri around, it might have some intersting effects. Our new apprentice might get a higher chance of getting the trait "Student of the Odd" with Yorri deciding to stick around.
 
Did we ever get an answer on whether we could try to trade the Greedy One's Heart in return for another T5 ingredient?
 
[] Plan: Dwarf Santa Visits the Griffons, Plus Yorri
- [] Prod for Prod: [Cost: 1 action] Gain x3 Yorri prods.
- [] The Mind of Things: 1 action
-- [] Use x3 Yorri prods
- [] [Simple] Warded Aeries: [Cost: (2 -1) =1 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 actions
-- [] At QM discretion, use up to T3 materials freely on this project where appropriate. Small amounts of T4 Elder Frostwyrm Hide may also be used.
- [] The Grand Conclave/Rhunkalbrogg: [Cost: 1 action]
-- [] Bring: A blueprint of the Adamant furnace. Some Adamant. A Voidstone. A few hearthstone. Some Silver Wutroth.
-[] Boon from the Sky: [Cost: Start Request, [Difficult] Plated Skies Pt. 1:] A bundle of his crest feathers. In exchange, he expects a suit of armour.
-[] [Simple] Vent Venting Pt. ?: [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
--[] Religious Donation: Gain 2 progress. if taken no action input required, but can add actions to overflow if desired. Lose rights to the land itself, Temple of Valaya will pay and provide material.
-[] [Simple] Cave Clearing Pt. 1: [Cost: 3 actions]
--[] Petition the Hold: [Cost: variable favours] Gain 1 progress per 10 favour, can be taken multiple times to autocompletion. 30 Favor.

So, I favour keeping things simple.

Yorri is around for one more turn, but probably not much longer. I'm really curious about The Mind of Things, and it allows multi-prods, so one action there to use our prods most efficiently.

Then? It's time to start repaying the damn griffons, and do it right. Dwarf MFing Santa style.

Also use other dwarves to get work done where possible, and ask the KotS for our boon, just to get that started.

An apprentice can wait until Yorri has left - and I do want an apprentice. It's just not *efficient* at the moment.
 
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Gnu, I'd be willing to support your plan as well, with the preferred voting system in place. Just FYI.

I might like LAZERZ, but I don't like them so much I'll insist.
 
BelligerentGnu said:
[] Plan: Dwarf Santa Visits the Griffons, Plus Yorri
- [] Prod for Prod: [Cost: 1 action] Gain x3 Yorri prods.
- [] The Mind of Things: 1 action
-- [] Use x3 Yorri prods
- [] [Simple] Warded Aeries: [Cost: (2 -1) =1 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 3 actions
-- [] At QM discretion, use up to T3 materials freely on this project where appropriate. Small amounts of T4 Elder Frostwyrm Hide may also be used.
-[] Boon from the Sky: [Cost: Start Request, [Difficult] Plated Skies Pt. 1:] A bundle of his crest feathers. In exchange, he expects a suit of armour.
-[] [Simple] Vent Venting Pt. ?: [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
--[] Religious Donation: Gain 2 progress. if taken no action input required, but can add actions to overflow if desired. Lose rights to the land itself, Temple of Valaya will pay and provide material.
-[] [Simple] Cave Clearing Pt. 1: [Cost: 3 actions]
--[] Petition the Hold: [Cost: variable favours] Gain 1 progress per 10 favour, can be taken multiple times to autocompletion. 30 Favor.

So, I favour keeping things simple.

Yorri is around for one more turn, but probably not much longer. I'm really curious about The Mind of Things, and it allows multi-prods, so one action there to use our prods most efficiently.

Then? It's time to start repaying the damn griffons, and do it right. Dwarf MFing Santa style.

Also use other dwarves to get work done where possible, and ask the KotS for our boon, just to get that started.

An apprentice can wait until Yorri has left - and I do want an apprentice. It's just not *efficient* at the moment.
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That costs 5 actions. We have 4.
 
BelligerentGnu said:
[] Plan: Dwarf Santa Visits the Griffons, Plus Yorri
- [] Prod for Prod: [Cost: 1 action] Gain x3 Yorri prods.
- [] The Mind of Things: 1 action
-- [] Use x3 Yorri prods
- [] [Simple] Warded Aeries: [Cost: (2 -1) =1 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 3 actions
-- [] At QM discretion, use up to T3 materials freely on this project where appropriate. Small amounts of T4 Elder Frostwyrm Hide may also be used.
-[] Boon from the Sky: [Cost: Start Request, [Difficult] Plated Skies Pt. 1:] A bundle of his crest feathers. In exchange, he expects a suit of armour.
-[] [Simple] Vent Venting Pt. ?: [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
--[] Religious Donation: Gain 2 progress. if taken no action input required, but can add actions to overflow if desired. Lose rights to the land itself, Temple of Valaya will pay and provide material.
-[] [Simple] Cave Clearing Pt. 1: [Cost: 3 actions]
--[] Petition the Hold: [Cost: variable favours] Gain 1 progress per 10 favour, can be taken multiple times to autocompletion. 30 Favor.

So, I favour keeping things simple.

Yorri is around for one more turn, but probably not much longer. I'm really curious about The Mind of Things, and it allows multi-prods, so one action there to use our prods most efficiently.

Then? It's time to start repaying the damn griffons, and do it right. Dwarf MFing Santa style.

Also use other dwarves to get work done where possible, and ask the KotS for our boon, just to get that started.

An apprentice can wait until Yorri has left - and I do want an apprentice. It's just not *efficient* at the moment.
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to many actions, we have to use 1 action for the conclave this turn so this is unavailable
 
BelligerentGnu said:
[] Plan: Dwarf Santa Visits the Griffons, Plus Yorri

So, I favour keeping things simple.

Yorri is around for one more turn, but probably not much longer. I'm really curious about The Mind of Things, and it allows multi-prods, so one action there to use our prods most efficiently.

Then? It's time to start repaying the damn griffons, and do it right. Dwarf MFing Santa style.

Also use other dwarves to get work done where possible, and ask the KotS for our boon, just to get that started.

An apprentice can wait until Yorri has left - and I do want an apprentice. It's just not *efficient* at the moment.
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I like this plan too, definitely knocking out paying back our feathered allies :)
 
There's no point in trading the Greedy One's heart, we were told that the Griffon's growth after giving up Kholek's heart is capped iirc, unless of course I'm not remembering correctly
 
ConfusedCanuck said:
But that's the thing we aren't in a Post-apocalyptic scenario yet for the dwarfs our holds aren't cut off yet and skaven haven't risen from the deep to take many of them. Yes Grimnir sacrificed himself for us but by doing so he allowed us to continue to thrive and prosper.
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We very much are in a post-apocalyptic scenario. Every other runelord in the north is dead. The majority of northern holds fell. Even our hold, which survived best, suffered ruinous casualties. It's not a continuous apocalypse like the Time of Woe, but it very much is post-apocalyptic. We may well go on to thrive, but now is the moment when we should be focused on ensuring that, not on blue skies research.

Remember that runesmiths very rarely share their knowledge with anyone but their apprentices. Developing runelore doesn't make much difference to what anyone but Snorri can do, as very few other runesmiths would ever learn it. It's largely, not completely, but largely, a dead end on a broader scale.

Apprentices are different. Apprentices tend to produce other apprentices in turn. They're also more people who Snorri is more likely to teach the results of his research to, and vice-versa.
 
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Alratan said:
Given the way our action economy works, we're better off waiting until next turn when we can put three actions on the Aeries, I think.
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Normally I'd agree, but I'm kind of expecting Dolgi and the others to have it done by then and I don't want to risk missing out on being part of this, hence my offers to get behind an Apprentice next turn if we do 3 or 4 or even this turn and 3.
 
Btw. If people want to clean up the research backlog, they should focus on the corpses and materials. Going up the research trees is only going to unlock more things to do.
 
Can we please wait till we have done the bloody armour till we take more apprentices. i don't want to take a new apprentice only for us to lock ourselves in our room making the KOTS armout the turn after
 
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