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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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[] Plan: Movement of Griffons
-[] Boon from the Sky: [Cost: Start Request, [Difficult] Plated Skies Pt. 1:]
--[] Request that he look for a particularly powerful creature and bring us its corpse
-[] Prod for Prod: [Cost: 1 action] Gain x3 Yorri prods.
-[] The Grand Conclave/Rhunkalbrogg: [Cost: 1 action]
--[] Optional Write-in: a Shard of Voidstone, a blueprint of our smelter, and an Adamant bar
-[] [Simple] Warded Aeries: [Cost: (2 -1) =1 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. [2 Actions]
-[] [Simple] Vent Venting Pt. ?: [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
--[] Religious Donation: Gain 2 progress.
-[] [Simple] Cave Clearing Pt. 1: [Cost: 3 actions]
--[] Petition the Hold: [Cost: variable favours] Gain 1 progress per 10 favour, can be taken multiple times to autocompletion. [30 Favour]
-[] The Movement of Things Pt. 2: [Cost: (8 -3) =5 actions] Student of the Odd will proc. [1 Action and x3 Prods]

i'd go for that if it was "Mind" instead of "Movement". If one improves prosthetics, I think i'd go for the prostethics first
 
I understand but at the moment we are but one dwarf there is only so much we can do. And while the loss of the other runesmiths hurt we can't single handedly replace there numbers and while you are right that we can't hole ourselves up and just do research we shouldn't be constantly looking for new students either that's why we should wait a another 3-4 decades before we get another student. We should pace ourselves and get a new student every six turns after the last one leaves. It gives us time to do other things while still maintaining a semi-steady rate of new runesmiths.

Why should we pace students any more than we pace research projects? Why shouldn't we wait six turns to start a new research project after the last one completes? It's not as if spending one fifth of our actions on apprentices is actually that significant an investment of our time.

Teaching apprentices is no less and probably more important than research given the very limited impact that research can have.
 
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Why should we pace students any more than we pace research projects? Why shouldn't we wait six turns to start a new research project after the last one completes?
Because we can finish a part in a research chain a lot faster then training a student. After all we can only devout one action into a student while we can put multiple actions into research. And with our Productivity like no other perk we get even more done in a shorter amount of time.
 
Personally while I don't mind the griffins the obsession with them can get so extremely that I just end up flat out wishing they didn't exist at times. I mean for gods sake, why do people want to spend all our actions on the Griffins this turn when Yorri is only here this turn? This was the DC for Yorri to stay:
(Roll, Does Yorri stay?: 80, DC 75)
That was a 75 DC, we pretty much got stupidly lucky that we passed it. And yet people want to waste the chance we got with Yorri. This is why I really am getting sick of the Griffins. I mean sure a lot of them died protecting dwarfs but people seem to miss that a large number of dwarfs also died protecting the griffins and we have already been doing a lot for them. We not only had griffins building them defenses, armoring them and we just spent last turn making a new translation rune for them and now we have plenty of people are fine with spending at least 1 action on them and many more willing to spend two which is techinily 3 actions thanks to our traits. And yet people are still obsessing over the Griffins.

I mean we can literally the rest of the griffin actions later while Yorri is here. And it's especially irregious since despite all the obsession with the Griffins people completely miss the fact that we can help our dwarf people with creating better prosphetics which Yorri can significantly help by getting them out sooner and yet people for some reason are insiting we put everytihng into the Griffins this turn even though we just seen our own brother was missing an arm and Snorri promised to make him one.
 
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As far as apprentices go I want to wait until we clear our plate by a good amount. We need to research while Yorri is here, doing otherwise is just a patent waste. After that we need to do the KotS Armor and the Armor of his sons. After that I'm all for it.

Personally I would like to get a chain of apprentices going. Have two for six turns then get another two that the first two can help teach and keep that pattern going.
 
i'd go for that if it was "Mind" instead of "Movement". If one improves prosthetics, I think i'd go for the prostethics first

So...this one?

[] Plan: Dwarf Santa Visits the Griffons, Plus Yorri
- [] Prod for Prod: [Cost: 1 action] Gain x3 Yorri prods.
- [] The Mind of Things: 1 action
-- [] Use x3 Yorri prods
- [] [Simple] Warded Aeries: [Cost: (2 -1) =1 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. 2 actions
-- [] At QM discretion, use up to T3 materials freely on this project where appropriate. Small amounts of T4 Elder Frostwyrm Hide may also be used.
- [] The Grand Conclave/Rhunkalbrogg: [Cost: 1 action]
-- [] Bring: A blueprint of the Adamant furnace. Some Adamant. A Voidstone. A few hearthstone. Some Silver Wutroth.
-[] Boon from the Sky: [Cost: Start Request, [Difficult] Plated Skies Pt. 1:] A bundle of his crest feathers. In exchange, he expects a suit of armour.
-[] [Simple] Vent Venting Pt. ?: [Cost: 2 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc.
--[] Religious Donation: Gain 2 progress. if taken no action input required, but can add actions to overflow if desired. Lose rights to the land itself, Temple of Valaya will pay and provide material.
-[] [Simple] Cave Clearing Pt. 1: [Cost: 3 actions]
--[] Petition the Hold: [Cost: variable favours] Gain 1 progress per 10 favour, can be taken multiple times to autocompletion. 30 Favor.
 
@soulcake, can we take two or more 'A Prod for a Prod' actions?
No.
Did we ever get an answer on whether we could try to trade the Greedy One's Heart in return for another T5 ingredient?
You can, but it needs you to assume theres just some T5 monster laying around for the KoTS to kill. There may not be one for a long while if ever.
Second question, can we turn the corpse of Kholek into a gronti?
Nai.
Regardless, I've fixed it.
Cowardice, commit to the meme :^ V Or don't I cant stop you.
 
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Personally while I don't mind the griffins the obsession with them can get so extremely that I just end up flat out wishing they didn't exist at times. I mean for gods sake, why do people want to waste all our actions on the Griffins this turn when Yorri is only here this turn? This was the DC for Yorri to stay:

I mean we can literally the rest of the griffin actions later while Yorri is here. And it's especially irregious since despite all the obsession with the Griffins people completely miss the fact that we can help our dwarf people with creating better prosphetics which Yorri can significantly help by getting them out sooner and yet people for some reason are insiting we put everytihng into the Griffins this turn even though we just seen our own brother was missing an arm and Snorri promised to make him one.
I'm not so sure we can. We already had a Griffon option done without our input, and Morgrim has practically challenged the Runesmiths to make it worthwhile. Dolgi is invested in their well being, and I want to be part of that before it ends and I think it's pretty damn cool and has potential to score a Legendary Deed, or at least Epic. By that same token I imagine that even if they don't after Morgrim's challenge, they will if they see us putting a lot of effort into it, making it even greater. Plus, some of soulcake's best work is in making things.
 
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Because we can finish a part in a research chain a lot faster then training a student. After all we can only devout one action into a student while we can put multiple actions into research. And with our Productivity like no other perk we get even more done in a shorter amount of time.

In terms of actions it's much less clear cut than this. In terms of time, perhaps, although the example of the multi-step Runemetal project doesn't fill me with confidence on that front. Apprentices also often give actions back. Research never has, and probably never will. Just look at the last turn, where one of our old apprentices was instrumental in completing a project so we didn't need to do it personally. Even back when they were apprentices they helped us chew through simple requests.

Productivity Like No Other doesn't apply to research.
 
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Because we can finish a part in a research chain a lot faster then training a student. After all we can only devout one action into a student while we can put multiple actions into research. And with our Productivity like no other perk we get even more done in a shorter amount of time.
Not to mention that apprentices eat up an action for literally decades to over a century while we are not always doing research some turns. It's really not the same thing.
 
Taking long breaks between apprentices destroys a significant part of the point that f them, which is the interaction between senior and junior apprentices, and makes it much less action efficient in terms of the return. Chains of successive overlapping apprentices is much more efficient, and, to me, more interesting to read, than the alternatives.

Particularly as it means we see more of other dwarves interacting with each other, and see more of Snorri as part of a wider society rather than a hermit.

You can, but it needs you to assume theres just some T5 monster laying around for the KoTS to kill. There may not be one for a long while if ever.

Anyone up for taking a punt on this, rather than the Aeries?
Not to mention that apprentices eat up an action for literally decades to over a century while we are not always doing research some turns. It's really not the same thing.

It's not exactly the same thing, but it's pretty close. It almost all comes down to action economy. Particularly now, when as far as we know the time value of actions is much lower for most things, as we're not on the clock.
 
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In terms of actions it's much less clear cut than this. In terms of time, perhaps, although the example of the multi-step Runemetal project doesn't fill me with confidence on that front. Apprentices also often give actions back. Research never has, and probably never will. Just look at the last turn, where one of our old apprentices was instrumental in completing a project so we didn't need to do it personally. Even back when they were apprentices they helped us chew through simple requests.

Productivity Like No Other doesn't apply to research.
First off your right about Productivity Like No Other I was thinking Student of the Odd my bad. But the thing is about research we don't have to do it every turn if we don't want to if we take an apprentice now we lose an action for a century training that student and at the moment I don't want to give up one of our five actions when we can devote them to other tasks. Ultimately it is an action economy as you said and it comes down to what we believe will benefit us and the greater dwarf realm at this time. And for me I believe we would be of greater use to Karak Anzor if we work on other projects and not on an apprentice.
 
You glare at Jorri, the idiot dares to beam right back at you, his stump of an arm doing nothing to hinder his joy.

I will admit, I chortled. Good start to an update, Jorri's alive and his aura undiminished.
Snerra inherited her bright attitude from him, didn't she?

Drowning in success and he's complaining Master Yorri, can you believe him?" Jorri says, snorting in faux offence.

"Aye lad, absolutely shameful," Yorri says, nodding in agreement.

It truly is, because Snorri, the old goat, is not actually unhappy with this turn events but is instead...

But for all that you grumble and grunt about it, there is a part of you that is happy to see the rest of the Runesmiths guild is taking notice of the talent you saw in them.

A blasted, stone-blighted tsundere.
Ah master Yorri, your wazzock student still has a lot to learn from you.

Speaking of your other apprentice.

You cannot help but puff up with quiet pride.

The image of Snorri as a puffed-up big white pidgeon is stuck in my head.

In a feat quite similar to one of your own, young Dolgi saw fit to repay the Griffons of the newly christened "Drongkaraz," translated to Stormpeak, for saving him on multiple occasions by gifting them armour and weapons. Of course, Dolgi's been saved many a time, more than even you have realized, and consequently made very many suits of armour and Runic weapons for his rescuers. Enough that he personally made over a third of the total amount of equipment delivered to the Griffons of Drongkaraz.

Good lad.

Way to go, Dolgi! It's a worthy tradition to continue.

"By the by, I'll have your replacement arm done soon enough," you tell Jorri.

Hopefully after we have unlocked the rune of mind.

"Take yer time! Gives me time to hang about the grandchildren, regale them with stories about my valorous exploits!" Jorri replies with a chuckle.

"For their sake, I'll make it a rush job," you reply.

Ah, true brotherly affection.

Horrible really. It says a lot when giant naked mole rats are the nicest looking things that tunnel through the rock your folk have made a home in.

Not even a proper mole, with fur!

Shameful.

"You done contemplating the inherent ugliness of underground critters?" Yorri asks from the back of the wagon.

While Snorri's ramblings are point on, I do like Master Yorri's interventions.
He knows his former apprentice well, and knows just what to do to stop him from getting too wound about.

You pass a statue, the very one used to crush a bloodthirster underfoot with its fall actually. The stone boots remain, though the destroyed sections are replaced with a fine steel replica of Grimnir, the head of that very same daemon clutched in His hand, and the arm stretched out so that the head is like a great chandelier in the tunnel.

Your keen eye notes the telltale signs of machinery in the massive arm. Likely to make the giant steel daemon's head into an impromptu trap should anything dare attack the dwarfs through the Underway once more.

I really like the imagery and symbolism. Especially that last tidbit of the daemon's head as a trap.
Devious and practical.

Gemlin especially considering that, in his words, you put up stiffer competition than expected with your armour. Though the elder makes sure to poke at the differences in your beards in good fun to show no hard feelings about it, simply good old fashioned competitive spirit.

In your opinion you beat the dwarf, his, admittedly better, beard notwithstanding.

Pffft. Gemlin got owned by a "beardling" and he knows it. He's just looking for a consolation prize to soothe his pride.

"You better keep all of that in mind apprentice, I'll be testing you o-," you mutter, before blinking and realizing that you are in fact...apprentice-less. Technically at least.

You've been lecturing nothing but thin air for who knows how long now, haven't you.

He's really missing having apprentices, isn't he?

You hear Yorri snort behind you.

"Do go on lad. I want to see if half the things I taught actually stuck in that fool head of yours. What did ya say once to your wife all those centuries ago? Ironclad memory?" your master finishes with a good long chortle.

"It was Gromrilclad for your information!" you reply hotly in well-hidden embarrassment.

Bah!

To be honest, I completely expected that, and I still laughed aloud.
 
So every Plan I am seeing asks for a bundle of the kings crest feathers, so I have to ask, am I the only one who remenbers if we ask the boon we have to design the armor the turn after or does no one else wants to learn what the pile of materials we have does before deciding the runes ?
 
So every Plan I am seeing asks for a bundle of the kings crest feathers, so I have to ask, am I the only one who remenbers if we ask the boon we have to design the armor the turn after or does no one else wants to learn what the pile of materials we have does before deciding the runes ?
BungieONI is going for figuring that stuff out in a plan. Which I support.
 
I have sympathy for this view.

I asked before, but does anyone know if we can take Prod for Prod more than once?

Particularly as we can spend multiple prods on Movement of Things.
Once per turn that our master is here, which is currently a 25% though DC may increase each turn. As it is prods lets us get the equivalent of multiple full turns of research done
 
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