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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Ternasta said:
Not at all, I freely accept you took the time to properly decide to vote this way. I just consider it a terrible character choice for Snorri.
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I do think you are being a bit hyperbolic here, not least because there are three distinct IC reasons to refuse, each of which pulls in a different direction
  1. I am not worthy/It will cause schism: this is the fear
  2. I want to walk my own path: this is pride
  3. I was not prepared to be an heir: this is 'Thungi fucked up'
 
So, unrelated to the vote, but... Shouldn't we consider our relatively newfound expertise at making Gromril chain to pull a Dark Templar and chain the Hammer to our armor ? I think any precaution we could take to avoid losing it cannot be over the top, and considering that forging stuff with it is bound to be extremely hazardous, it wouldn't be too great a loss of flexibility to be unable to use it without using the armor.
 
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barty said:
So, unrelated to the vote, but... Shouldn't we consider our relatively newfound expertise at making Gromril chain to pull a Dark Templar and chain the Hammer to our armor ? I think any precaution we could take to avoid losing it cannot be over the top...
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i said it earlier today, but snorri didn't let go of his hammer when he was physically melted.

He's not going to let it go as long as he has arms.

And if someone took off his arms while wearing Barak Azamar, a gromril wire isn't going to do shit.
 
barty said:
So, unrelated to the vote, but... Shouldn't we consider our relatively newfound expertise at making Gromril chain to pull a Dark Templar and chain the Hammer to our armor ? I think any precaution we could take to avoid losing it cannot be over the top...
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If you like the vibe I guess you could, but as someone else mentioned, Snorri melted into a puddle smithing SB and he never dropped his hammer. It would take the jaws of life to prize Snorri's cold dead fingers off the hammer before he allowed himself to lose it.
Losing the hammer, doesn't mean forgetting where we put it, or dropping it while out on a walk. Snorri is way too careful to blunder like that.
Someone stealing it is more likely although still pretty hard to imagine.
It mostly means Snorri died somewhere that other dwarves where unable to reach and retrieve his body and now the hammer got looted. And the chain isn't going to meaningfully change that.
 
Ternasta said:
And all we have to do is lie to people, a simple easy lie. It always starts that way.

no matter how tender, how exquisite… A lie will remain a lie.
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Lie to them about what? His own interpretation of a poem?

Not sure if you saw it above, but looking at the circumstances around said poem it seems very odd that Thungi would use that mechanism to confirm an heir. Leaving aside the inherent unreliability of interpretation the only person who would know what was on the tablet would be the person who became heir. For a controversial heir that means some dwarfs would doubt them. This is a problem Thungi could have solved by copying the poem on some plaques and including them with the hammer, but he did not. So either Thungi's getting a bit forgetful in his old age or Snori should be more careful of his literary interpretation.
 
[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.
 
My interpretation of the poems and what Thungni is asking of us is to set an example of what it is to be Dawi for the younglings to follow.
Understand what it is to be Dawi. Don't lie to yourself about your short comings and work to correct them. Embody what it is to be Dawi.
Resist, Overcome and Endure.
 
DragonParadox said:
Lie to them about what? His own interpretation of a poem?

Not sure if you saw it above, but looking at the circumstances around said poem it seems very odd that Thungi would use that mechanism to confirm an heir. Leaving aside the inherent unreliability of interpretation the only person who would know what was on the tablet would be the person who became heir. For a controversial heir that means some dwarfs would doubt them. This is a problem Thungi could have solved by copying the poem on some plaques and including them with the hammer, but he did not. So either Thungi's getting a bit forgetful in his old age or Snori should be more careful of his literary interpretation.
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I disagree with the conclusion altough I do think the Logic is sound.

Thungni doesn't get Dawi interaction the same way Grungni and Valaya do. I fully believe that he'll leave one fleeting copy to say that he intends the Hammer to go to his Heir for the express purpose to give the Hammer Owner the ability to refuse .

Much like how Thungni everything feels incredibly fleeting.
 
NutMaster said:
Is there a great disadvantage to make a chain for hammer other than maybe bit loss of maneuverability/flexibility? Besides, I think Snorri with Kratos' swords of chaos fit would look really cool.
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if its connected to Snorri's wrist it's not particularly more connective than Snorri's actual hand, since literal dismemberment is more likely than getting him to let go.

If its connected to literally anything else then its long enough to be grabbed, to get in the way, and to generally be turned against Snorri in combat.
 
Evillevi said:
I disagree with the conclusion altough I do think the Logic is sound.

Thungni doesn't get Dawi interaction the same way Grungni and Valaya do. I fully believe that he'll leave one fleeting copy to say that he intends the Hammer to go to his Heir for the express purpose to give the Hammer Owner the ability to refuse .

Much like how Thungni everything feels incredibly fleeting.
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Thing is detachable plaques would in no way have prevented the reluctant presumed heir from not picking them up and letting them be buried. Can't really speak to Thungi's ability to read other dwarfs since we know very little of his inner life and motivations.
 
DragonParadox said:
Thing is detachable plaques would in no way have prevented the reluctant presumed heir from not picking them up and letting them be buried. Can't really speak to Thungi's ability to read other dwarfs since we know very little of his inner life and motivations.
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I meant more like Thungni has developed a trial ... that doesn't really do much and would dissapear after it's completed. I have no difficulty believing that Thungni decided that this overly dramatic way of giving a trial taker the ability to both take up his mantle or reject was a good idea.

And it'll work on a purely technical level even without any proof. All of the likely trial candidates have incredible potential. From snerra, Kazador and Snorri statline I am sure that if anyone of us could pushed for it and no one would be able to stop us given sufficient time to build up.
 
Evillevi said:
I meant more like Thungni has developed a trial ... that doesn't really do much and would dissapear after it's completed. I have no difficulty believing that Thungni decided that this overly dramatic way of giving a trial taker the ability to both take up his mantle or reject was a good idea.

And it'll work on a purely technical level even without any proof. All of the likely trial candidates have incredible potential. From snerra, Kazador and Snorri statline I am sure that if anyone of us could pushed for it and no one would be able to stop us given sufficient time to build up.
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I do not think this is a binary Will/Won't work, the fact that the poem was destroyed creates an opening fro calling the heir a liar. There is no upside to this, only downsides if 'be my heir' was indeed what Thungi intended. This was either a blunder on his part or Snori is misreading the whole thing.
 
[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.

Reposting my vote because I apparently didn't vote properly the first time. Not sure how the tally will count it, if I screwed up again and need to do something more please tell me.
 
[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.
 
We do know that Thungni liked his puns and wordplay, and had a habit of being obscure with them, so it's not impossible there's some arcane reading of what Thungni put that Snorri completely missed.

Would be entertaining if Thungni's watching from wherever he went and is just going, "... shit."
 
okay so quick question, what's the plan to apologise to a Valaya since we seem to have displeased her?

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Also, with regard to what Thungi intended… I'd say that Snorri isn't wrong about it being Thungis heir, but he's not right about what it means.

Remember the start of this told us that the simplest explanation/ most apparent was the correct one, and the complexity built on that.


So I'd say that given the focus on self understanding and embodying the Dawn… from Thungis point of view, whether the bearer of the hammer claims to be or denies being the Heir is less important than those traits.

That's just a guess though
 
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Aule said:
[X] Refuse the Title of Heir: [Cost: Nothing] Gain ???. You will take up this hammer, you will use it, but you are your own Dwarf with your own goals. The burden of carrying Thungni's Will, of being His Heir, is one you choose not to carry. Someone or no one can claim it for all you care, but it will not be you.

Reposting my vote because I apparently didn't vote properly the first time. Not sure how the tally will count it, if I screwed up again and need to do something more please tell me.
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You prolly voted before soulcake's last threadmark, and by default, the vote counts from the last one.
 
DragonParadox said:
the fact that the poem was destroyed creates an opening fro calling the heir a liar
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Just to clarify I disagree primarily that the opposition that arises from the lack of any hard evidence is a major obstacle. It's a horrible way to notify an heir that takes much more effort to pass, but Thungni's chosen has by and far the highest potential to just crush the opposition socially, martially or Runically given sufficient time.

Now I don't think we should default assume that the trial intends for the taker to be Thungni's Heir. But the Hammer was clearly meant for Durin and we are teh next best dawi to Durin. That we're able to even take the Trial puts us in that respect ahead of most of our opposition.
 
[X] Claim the Title of Heir: [Cost: ???] Gain title: Heir of Thungni, ??? You claim a position that has remained in doubt since Durin died. By Thungni's word, the hammer you would now wield confirms that you are His Heir. Elevating your authority to that of the Ancestor's eldest children, living or dead. You would not, could not be a tyrant of course, but still.
 
[X] Claim the Title of Heir: [Cost: ???] Gain title: Heir of Thungni, ??? You claim a position that has remained in doubt since Durin died. By Thungni's word, the hammer you would now wield confirms that you are His Heir. Elevating your authority to that of the Ancestor's eldest children, living or dead. You would not, could not be a tyrant of course, but still.
 
It is… frustrating to see Soulcake keep interjecting on the side of refusing.

This feels a lot like the time in A Sword Without a Hilt when a couple of votes went against the more frequent posters plans and suddenly the votes were reopened for the vote to be "corrected" to what it was supposed to be.

When a threadmark for "clarification" results in one side of the vote losing three and the other then going up fifty votes it's annoying to see discussion basically reset itself, repeating of parts and using the new WoG to reargue points that had been addressed before.

I'm gonna just step away for a few updates and let things settle like I did with ASWaH, let the new status quo set in and come back fresh.
 
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