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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

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hmm do you people think that after Underway tunnel is done and we go back to nomal and we can exploit the firestones and reveal the Adamant, that it will push our Standing in Kraka Drakk and The Far North to 10? with the Conservative and Radical Runesmiths is definitely going to 5
 
One thing Snerra's quick graduation is making me curious about is how long Snorri's apprenticeship took. The OP states this:
soulcake said:
a journeyman in 20 years, a master in 60 and the vaunted rank of Runelord in only a short 180 years?
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But I somehow think that given Snerra, the QM-described once in a generation genius, still needs a 60-year training period before she gets to journeyman, it might be just a bit off the mark to consider Snorri as 3 times more talented than she is. Maybe Yorri figured out how to infuse knowledge into all that troll he made Snorri eat?
 
Xantalos said:
One thing Snerra's quick graduation is making me curious about is how long Snorri's apprenticeship took. The OP states this:
But I somehow think that given Snerra, the QM-described once in a generation genius, still needs a 60-year training period before she gets to journeyman, it might be just a bit off the mark to consider Snorri as 3 times more talented than she is. Maybe Yorri figured out how to infuse knowledge into all that troll he made Snorri eat?
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Hmm, might be just early installment weirdness, because we know Snorri has the same level of raw talent as Dolgi. And like Snorri, Dolgi is going to go far with hard work.
 
is there a form of dwarven school system? maybe set something up and figure out a rune to make students inside learn and remember easier? get all beardlings up to a basic level of everything before going to specialize in their own fields? this way in case of mass population loss entire core skills not likely to be lost or heavily diminished to point of very slow recovery?
 
BungieONI said:
E2: Unless of course seeking out new apprentices doesn't take an action because it works like the Order mechanics and we basically put out an add on Runesmith Craigslist.
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I feel like standing might have a decent bit to do with this, we have 9 in Kraka Drakk and 7 in the north generally. So I think it's likely that means we have a pretty reliable pool we can draw from.

Xantalos said:
But I somehow think that given Snerra, the QM-described once in a generation genius, still needs a 60-year training period before she gets to journeyman, it might be just a bit off the mark to consider Snorri as 3 times more talented than she is. Maybe Yorri figured out how to infuse knowledge into all that troll he made Snorri eat?
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That does seem a bit off. Maybe that means we finished the journeyman stage in 20, master finishing school in 60, and runelord 180 after that? Doesn't quite match the text but seems to make more sense.
 
tri2 said:
is there a form of dwarven school system? maybe set something up and figure out a rune to make students inside learn and remember easier? get all beardlings up to a basic level of everything before going to specialize in their own fields? this way in case of mass population loss entire core skills not likely to be lost or heavily diminished to point of very slow recovery?
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The dwarven school system is the clan structure. It basically works, because while secrets from crafts can be lost entire crafts are not. Could it be made better? Probably? Are we in a position to improve it? Nope.
 
soulcake said:
"Hmmph, these 50 won't do, the rest can go on. Only two out of three worth being held by a beardling Dolgi? Whats this shoddy craftsmanship you're making boy? Replace those fifty before the year's out!" You grumble at the boy.
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Actually this is somewhat worrying. That is a terrible success rate and it seems like neither he or Fjolla caught it. They are going to be representing us.
 
fictionfan said:
Actually this is somewhat worrying. That is a terrible success rate and it seems like neither he or Fjolla caught it. They are going to be representing us.
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Uh... its fine? Dwarven hyper-criticism is in play remember? And Fjolla and Dolgi are not bad apprentices, otherwise Snorri would be referencing that consistently. And he hasn't been.
 
Given that most of their apprenticeship has been Snorri telling them only about 10 things they were getting wrong in their craft and leaving the other 9990 for later, Dolgi actually getting 2/3 of his axes to an acceptable Snorri Standard is a pretty big achievement! Remember, our apprentices being called 'acceptable' a few turns ago was a huge shock to Snorri's brother since that seems to be the dwarf cultural equivalent of going around yelling about how good they are to everyone. Dwarf elders interacting with their lessers is always 99% grumbling and criticism, so getting even remotely close to their standards is a big thing.
 
BungieONI said:
Easy solution would be to get the next pair of apprentices before Snerra graduates on turn 15. We'd have to do it turn 14 or 13. Hmmm, not sure I really want to do it. Depends on how the defenses autocompleting works out, if its done on turn 13 then we can, if it doesn't we're basically faced with a choice on turn 14 to go seek out a pair or go all in again.

But she's not going to get very long with the hypothetical next pair either way, isn't much we can do about that though except hanging onto her for an extra decade to give her that experience. Which is its own kettle of fish.
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It takes apprentices.. 2-3 turns to get a specialty from their trainers right? If we can grab some more apprentices while Snerra is still an apprentice and can teach the probably older than her apprentice Runesmiths they might be able to pick up a bit of her exceptional knowledge on Talismanic Runes.

That would be an amazing thing to propagate. Snerra is a once a generation prodigy who picked up an exceptional knowledge base for her specialty. If she can have apprentices, ours or hers, pick up that from her and push it forward? It would massively boost the collective knowledge of Talismanic Runes down the line.
 
Captain Spatula said:
It takes apprentices.. 2-3 turns to get a specialty from their trainers right? If we can grab some more apprentices while Snerra is still an apprentice and can teach the probably older than her apprentice Runesmiths they might be able to pick up a bit of her exceptional knowledge on Talismanic Runes.

That would be an amazing thing to propagate. Snerra is a once a generation prodigy who picked up an exceptional knowledge base for her specialty. If she can have apprentices, ours or hers, pick up that from her and push it forward? It would massively boost the collective knowledge of Talismanic Runes down the line.
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Fjolla has the exceptional talisman specialization as well. So, she can pass it on to her apprentices later.
 
I do hope that once our apprentices graduate, we see the effects propagate through the hold. Realistically it'll probably take 100-200 years or so for any of them to become anything other than highly promising young runesmiths, no matter how good their teacher, though.
 
jjffjhjf said:
Fjolla has the exceptional talisman specialization as well. So, she can pass it on to her apprentices later.
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Even better, that's probably where Snerra picked it up. That means we have Fjolla and Snerra who can pick up apprentices down the line meaning it would spread faster. Sure it's only a single point to add, but considering apprenticeships last 60-120 years that's an extra generation or so ahead of schedule.
 
Captain Spatula said:
Even better, that's probably where Snerra picked it up. That means we have Fjolla and Snerra who can pick up apprentices down the line meaning it would spread faster. Sure it's only a single point to add, but considering apprenticeships last 60-120 years that's an extra generation or so ahead of schedule.
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So the way it works is that when an apprentice is getting their specialties soulcake rolls based on a pool of our specialties between Talisman or Engineering (he talked about this early in the quest), then he rolls in the general specialty pool. This is how Fjolla got Talisman (exceptional), she rolled Talismans twice. Snerra was silly good and got to roll twice in the general pool, ending up with three specialties.
 
BungieONI said:
Snerra is going to graduate on turn 15 in all likely hood. Major talents are rare, it is very unlikely they are going to show up before she's gone.

And we're not going to get good prospects "showing up" unless its from family. We have to go look.
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Just because Snerra might be ready on turn 15 doesn't mean she has to leave on turn 15 we could hold off on sending her out for a turn or 2. or if we have 2 new apprentices she might decide to stick around a turn or 2 herself to get some of the same teaching experiences of her sempais
 
BungieONI said:
So the way it works is that when an apprentice is getting their specialties soulcake rolls based on a pool of our specialties between Talisman or Engineering (he talked about this early in the quest), then he rolls in the general specialty pool. This is how Fjolla got Talisman (exceptional), she rolled Talismans twice. Snerra was silly good and got to roll twice in the general pool, ending up with three specialties.
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Yeah I know, I'm just not sure if because we had Fjolla and Dolgi helping teach her let her roll for their specialties as well and that's why she got Fjolla's exceptional rune specialty. Or if her being a prodigy basically gave her her first specialty as exceptional.

If it's the first it really incentivises getting more apprentices while we've got at least an apprentice with a rare/great specialty. More chances it'll propagate forward if they roll to get a specialty from whoever teaches them as opposed to just rolling from their masters list.

If it's the latter it sucks, kinda. Because that means we'll have to wait till Fjolla has apprentices before the exceptional talismanic specialty carries forward. Because unless she picks up another specialty that would be all her apprentices would get from her.
 
Heh, so, amusing thought.

This turn, Snorri sent his Apprentices out to help the Underway.

Next turn, Snorri schools them in how to get shit done. They're going to see how a Runelord helps the Underway!

That's going to leave a powerful impression with them, eh? How much more their master can get done. And also all the different things he'd do.

I actually kinda like the result of that. First, Snorri lets them try their own ideas. Then, he comes and shows them what's what.

It can be his final lesson for them.
Captain Spatula said:
It takes apprentices.. 2-3 turns to get a specialty from their trainers right? If we can grab some more apprentices while Snerra is still an apprentice and can teach the probably older than her apprentice Runesmiths they might be able to pick up a bit of her exceptional knowledge on Talismanic Runes.

That would be an amazing thing to propagate. Snerra is a once a generation prodigy who picked up an exceptional knowledge base for her specialty. If she can have apprentices, ours or hers, pick up that from her and push it forward? It would massively boost the collective knowledge of Talismanic Runes down the line.
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While I'd love for that to be the case... I don't think such cross-pollination happens; or at least, it didn't happen so far. Note that Doli and Fjolla never picked up either other's specialties. As for Snerra... it's hard to say whether her getting Talismanic Runes and Weapon Runes was a coincidence or not. I actually do think it was a coincidence... though maybe the odds were stacked in favor of certain outcomes.

But, I think she was always going to get this many specialties. I don't think the Apprentices teaching added more. They might have weighted odds towards certain combinations, but I dunno if they added more. If that makes sense?

(EDIT: Also, Dolgi got Weapon Runes and Snerra got Weapon and Banner Runes. Snorri didn't have those specialties himself, so. I think this is partly or wholly random. Apprentice specialties are their own, in part, and part from their teacher it seems.)

Though, I want to see Fjolla, Snerra, and Snorri putting their heads together on Talismanic Runes.

All of them have a specialty in Talismanic Runes, and 2 of them have Exceptional specialties in them. Imagine what they could get done?

... Heh, in fact maybe Snerra (and Fjolla too but Snerra is going to be around for a bit longer more) will pick up on the Talisman Rune we're trying to create now; and will say or do something that gives Snorri a hint or helps with a breakthrough? "From the mouths of Beardlings," as it were.
 
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Captain Spatula said:
Yeah I know, I'm just not sure if because we had Fjolla and Dolgi helping teach her let her roll for their specialties as well and that's why she got Fjolla's exceptional rune specialty. Or if her being a prodigy basically gave her her first specialty as exceptional.
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@soulcake? This would be useful to know for in future, given training apprentices is a thing a good many of us like a lot.
 
Personally I think we want junior apprentices all the time, we don't need to have THREE apprentices all the time, but when the seniors graduate we should pick up at least one apprentice. That'd give them the necessary experiences.

Productivity Like No Other.
Efficient Runesmith Manufacturing
 
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veekie said:
Personally I think we want junior apprentices all the time, we don't need to have THREE apprentices all the time, but when the seniors graduate we should pick up at least one apprentice. That'd give them the necessary experiences.
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Yeah pretty much.


Garlak said:
(EDIT: Also, Dolgi got Weapon Runes and Snerra got Weapon and Banner Runes. Snorri didn't have those specialties himself, so. I think this is partly or wholly random. Apprentice specialties are their own.)
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Soulcake has told us that normal apprentices have two specialties; one gained by rolling in the pool of Snorri's own specialties (Talisman and Engineering) and then one gained by rolling in the general specialty pool (Talisman, Engineering, Weapon, Banner, Armor).

soulcake said:
The Apprentice will have 2 specialties, one from your two specialties and roll for the second from the overall pool.
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From the Apprentice vote in Character Creation.

Snerra was just so crazy good she got to roll in the general pool twice, which is logically where her Weapon and Banner specialties came from since neither of those are Snorri's. Ergo, her first specialty that she got from us was exceptional and was Talismanic.

Makes her a good Hero equip-er. Only way she could be better is if she had Armor as a specialty too.
 
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Snerra would get three specialties, 1st was exceptional next two are normal. One was normal pool the other was turned into apprentice pool, so talisman, talisman, weapon and engineering.
 
BungieONI said:
Soulcake has told us that normal apprentices have two specialties; one gained by rolling in the pool of Snorri's own specialties (Talisman and Engineering) and then one gained by rolling in the general specialty pool (Talisman, Engineering, Weapon, Banner, Armor).
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Huh, makes sense.

What about the "Odd and Esoteric Runes" one though? Is there a way for them to pick that one up? Or Productivity or Student of the Odd?

Wait actually thinking about it... I wonder if "Odd and Esoteric" is in the journeyman roll table of possible specialties? Well, Journeyman or above, maybe.

Some might be from events or accomplishments. Like Snorri picking up Productivity due to his drunken oath. But Student of the Odd though... that's definitely something that came from his master (I mean, it references his master) so... I dunno. Maybe the Apprentices will pick up "Student of the Industrious" or something like that, who knows?
 
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