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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Random thought, but could the Chaos dwarfs be prevented if a proper underway is constructed and Karaz Ankor can keep in contact with those holds over the centuries?

Besides that caught up with the thread and this is an awesome quest. Crazy update speed.
 
I think we should hold off on research next turn and craft something.

We should either use the Adamant to make the banner or armor for the King.
 
I wonder how Conduction and Fire runes combo with Fury runes? I mean, the image is obvious of course; "fiery fury" is an obvious theme. Fire, Fury, and Speed... It feels like a pretty
frostgiant said:
Maybe the master tune of flight would work? A throwing axe that crates a vortex of wind around itself while in flight, and then returns to the throwers hand leaving a small tornado behind to strike into the enemy lines?

Mm, probably not how the master run of flight would work, would probably end up more like a spinning dervish of ice and fire that returns to the weirder. But it would could be something to try.
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Ooh, that's a good one! A spinning dervish of fire and/or ice. That sounds rad as hell, now I want to make all sorts of Flying combos. With fire alone, with frost alone, with both... (In hindsight, after a second look, the Master Rune of Conduction looks like an advanced form of Fire rune; and the Master Rune of Currents looks to be the same, except for Frost... Though, the Conduction-Fire-Frost idea still might be doable, who knows, hmm... Hm.)

Hm... You know, it feels like there should be a Rune of Lightning, huh? (Probably a Rune of Thunder too. Unless it's a combo.) Both Fire and Ice are types of dragon breathweapon attacks -- and so is lightning, so it seems reasonable to me. (It deals damage based on how strong the target's armor is. More metal = more damage.)
 
Zale said:
Random thought, but could the Chaos dwarfs be prevented if a proper underway is constructed and Karaz Ankor can keep in contact with those holds over the centuries?

Besides that caught up with the thread and this is an awesome quest. Crazy update speed.
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Impossible to tell, but we can certainly go absolutely ham on killing them as soon as we find out about them and hopefully keep them from making Black Orcs, Helcannons, and the various other incredibly unpleasant things they do.
 
Ancient Scholar said:
I think we should hold off on research next turn and craft something.

We should either use the Adamant to make the banner or armor for the King.
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We have one bar of it, that can fit in our hand. That is not enough I would say to make armor out of it.

We really need to actually finish the Rune used to make it so we can make it reliably. Its only a proof of concept right now, not really all that usable.
 
Zale said:
Random thought, but could the Chaos dwarfs be prevented if a proper underway is constructed and Karaz Ankor can keep in contact with those holds over the centuries?
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soulcake said:
Q. DAWI ZHAR? Can we do anything?!
A. You don't know which caravan will end up falling, and you don't even know if that Caravan has already left for the east. It's out of your control at this point. Only the Dice hold sway now!
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In general though, the extension would have to be huge, like 2-3 times the length of the Norscan leg at least. While servicing a tiny population. So I'd think it's unlikely.

Even Norsca didn't get a leg OTL.
 
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Zale said:
Random thought, but could the Chaos dwarfs be prevented if a proper underway is constructed and Karaz Ankor can keep in contact with those holds over the centuries?

Besides that caught up with the thread and this is an awesome quest. Crazy update speed.
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Maybe, maybe not.

The settlers who went east could've been incentivized to move to the rich and booming northern Holds that seem to be filled with prospects and opportunities. Could also be that, hearing of the North's success just encouraged people to move east and get in on the ground floor of something new, after hearing of how successful the northern Holds have been.

Though, imagine if people did go east because they heard of how successful Kraka Drak was, and ended up falling to Chaos as they did in canon. The North might end up being hated more than the rest of Karaz Ankor.
 
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Chief18753 said:
Maybe, maybe not.

The settlers who went east could've been incentivized to move to the rich and booming northern Holds that seem to be filled with prospects and opportunities. Could also be that, hearing of the North's success just encouraged people to move east and get in on the ground floor of something new, after hearing of how successful the northern Holds have been.

Though, imagine if people did go east because they heard of how successful Kraka Drak was, and ended up falling to Chaos as they did in canon. The North might end up being hated more than the rest of Karaz Ankor.
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Or all the people that would have gone east went north instead.
 
Think we found a good apprentice formula:
soulcake said:
"Obviously, thinking of that alteration to the Rune of Speed that Master Snorri taught us as well… Snerra! Fetch the quicksilver!"

"Sure thing!" the girl shouts, getting up from her desk and scurrying off into the storeroom.

Dolgi looks at her retreating back, only turning to face Fjolla when Snerra disappears behind a corner.

"...getting stuff handed to us sure is convenient," he says quietly.

"Aye," Fjolla grunts, still looking down at her banner.

"Course we can't tell her that," Dolgi continues.

"Aye."
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They realize the secret: that apprentices SAVE time, not cost it. Just a bit of up front investment to make them useful.
soulcake said:
"Snerra! Quicksilver's about to run out!" Fjolla shouts.

"Yes Niece!" the girl says, running off towards the storerooms.
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They get used to it.
soulcake said:
"Wont lie...need some troll jerky to go with this stone bread," Fjolla admits.

"I think I have some that Klorah made," Dolgi replies, digging around in his pockets for a while only to come up with nothing.

"Huh. Guess I ate it all," he says sheepishly.

"Where's Snerra? She usually has some handy," Fjolla says suddenly, eyes roving around the room searching for their younger compatriot

"Out on the weekly supply run just like Master Snorri's had her doing for the past few years now? You haven't noticed?" Dolgi says, staring at her oddly.
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They start to miss it when without it.

Thats the trick. Not just taking apprentices regularly.
Take two batches. The older batch learns the true meaning of christmas about the value of gophers, and the younger batch has a richer perspective, and gets to pick up stuff from each senior apprentice's quirks too.

By the time the seniors come back from their Journey they're looking forward to the day they can have gophers again.
 
veekie said:
Think we found a good apprentice formula:

They realize the secret: that apprentices SAVE time, not cost it. Just a bit of up front investment to make them useful.

They get used to it.

They start to miss it when without it.

Thats the trick. Not just taking apprentices regularly.
Take two batches. The older batch learns the true meaning of christmas about the value of gophers, and the younger batch has a richer perspective, and gets to pick up stuff from each senior apprentice's quirks too.

By the time the seniors come back from their Journey they're looking forward to the day they can have gophers again.
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That equates to what? Grab a batch of apprentices. Get them 3/4 done or so, maybe just above 1/2 of their apprenticeship time and then grab another batch, maybe smaller in number and keep going.

Snorri would perpetually have 3-4 apprentices and depending on when he grabs the second batch he might have apprentices all of the time feeding into each other's specialties.

I suppose that fits his productivity trait. What other Runelords do with a single apprentice might take them centuries. In the same time Snorri can churn out 3-4 journeyman of varying skill.
 
Captain Spatula said:
That equates to what? Grab a batch of apprentices. Get them 3/4 done or so, maybe just above 1/2 of their apprenticeship time and then grab another batch, maybe smaller in number and keep going.

Snorri would perpetually have 3-4 apprentices and depending on when he grabs the second batch he might have apprentices all of the time feeding into each other's specialties.

I suppose that fits his productivity trait. What other Runelords do with a single apprentice might take them centuries. In the same time Snorri can churn out 3-4 journeyman of varying skill.
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Going with the 2 pair, 1 later on set up so he's just teaching 3 is also possible. We know that that is sustainable. We can then finish up the third one and just start the cycle again by picking up the next pair, then when they're readyish for it we pick up one more and the whole thing repeats.

4 apprentices at a time would be a bit much seems like.
 
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It'd certainly be a neat way of referencing the inevitable Santa's elves thing - Snorri, the Dwarf with Ten Thousand Apprentices (Just Not All At Once).
 
Xantalos said:
It'd certainly be a neat way of referencing the inevitable Santa's elves thing - Snorri, the Dwarf with Ten Thousand Apprentices (Just Not All At Once).
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Snorri and the ten thousand apprentices sounds like a parable.

"Be a productive teacher like Snorri who brought 10,000 Runelords into existence" or "beware the fate of Snorri who when faced with the shoddy works of 10,000 beardlings at the same time, tore out his own beard."
 
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Thomasfoolery said:
In general though, the extension would have to be huge, like 2-3 times the length of the Norscan leg at least. While servicing a tiny population. So I'd think it's unlikely.

Even Norsca didn't get a leg OTL.
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Well if we really put our all into it and make a huge surplus of tunnel making equipment it would be a waste for it lay idol just because this tunnel is finished so it might promote other tunnel projects.
 
I can't wait to see if we use any Engineering or Talismanic runes in the Underway. Since they are some of our specialties, I hope we end up adding interesting functionality, if at all, to our side of it.
 
veekie said:
They start to miss it when without it.

Thats the trick. Not just taking apprentices regularly.
Take two batches. The older batch learns the true meaning of christmas about the value of gophers, and the younger batch has a richer perspective, and gets to pick up stuff from each senior apprentice's quirks too.

By the time the seniors come back from their Journey they're looking forward to the day they can have gophers again.
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Interesting point -- that's definitely one way to tilt things towards an apprentice-positive mindset in future Runesmiths.

By letting the apprentices see the benefit of having gophers and aids of their own.

Where normally apprentices would just go through the phase of "I have to do all the chores for the Runelord", and maybe only look forward to future apprentices in a "Aha, somebody else gets to suffer through the same thing I did!" way... this way, they'd also have the direct experience of what having helpers is like.

Also also, they get teaching experience. The other reason/way Apprentices might be more willing to take on students of their own; if they have a better idea of what it's like, and so will feel more confident doing so. (Whereas normally, they might take more time before feeling like they can afford to take a student, presumably?) (Of course the possible pitfall is ex-Apprentices thinking they will teach in batches of apprentices too, rather than just one apprentice at a time, whereas I feel like this is an advanced method... Then again, that just means we need to teach them how to teach. Make sure they really know their limits in that category. Which, well, we're already always doing.)

Of course, this means investing Apprentice actions into training Apprentices. So it's not exactly free or a one-weird-trick-Runesmiths-HATE-him! thing.
BungieONI said:
We can then finish up the third one and just start the cycle again by picking up the next pair, then when they're readyish for it we pick up one more and the whole thing repeats.
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Well, batches like that means that Snerra doesn't get the experience of having a gopher and aid of her own. And of getting experience teaching and know what teaching will entail. And as our most promising student, I definitely want her to get the same experience Dolgi and Fjolla did.
 
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Garlak said:
Interesting point -- that's definitely one way to tilt things towards an apprentice-positive mindset in future Runesmiths.

By letting the apprentices see the benefit of having gophers and aids of their own.

Where normally apprentices would just go through the phase of "I have to do all the chores for the Runelord", and maybe only look forward to future apprentices in a "Aha, somebody else gets to suffer through the same thing I did!" way... this way, they'd also have the direct experience of what having helpers is like.

Also also, they get teaching experience. The other reason/way Apprentices might be more willing to take on students of their own; if they have a better idea of what it's like, and so will feel more confident doing so. (Whereas normally, they might take more time before feeling like they can afford to take a student, presumably?)

Of course, this means investing Apprentice actions into training Apprentices. So it's not exactly free or a one-weird-trick-Runesmiths-HATE-him! thing.

Well, batches like that means that Snerra doesn't get the experience of having a gopher and aid of her own. And of getting experience teaching and know what teaching will entail. And as our most promising student, I definitely want her to get the same experience Dolgi and Fjolla did.
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Easy solution would be to get the next pair of apprentices before Snerra graduates on turn 15. We'd have to do it turn 14 or 13. Hmmm, not sure I really want to do it. Depends on how the defenses autocompleting works out, if its done on turn 13 then we can, if it doesn't we're basically faced with a choice on turn 14 to go seek out a pair or go all in again.

But she's not going to get very long with the hypothetical next pair either way, isn't much we can do about that though except hanging onto her for an extra decade to give her that experience. Which is its own kettle of fish.

At the very least she gets the other side of it and is smart enough to work it out from the other direction after enough time, in theory.

E: for the normal pair + one cycle, we can grab a pair, then grab one a good way through the pair's training, then before the one graduates we grab the next pair and the cycle continues on.

E2: Unless of course seeking out new apprentices doesn't take an action because it works like the Order mechanics and we basically put out an add on Runesmith Craigslist.
 
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I don't think it is worth considering unless some good propects show up. Be a crying shame to be full up if a another major talent turns up.
 
fictionfan said:
I don't think it is worth considering unless some good propects show up. Be a crying shame to be full up if a another major talent turns up.
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Snerra is going to graduate on turn 15 in all likely hood. Major talents are rare, it is very unlikely they are going to show up before she's gone.

And we're not going to get good prospects "showing up" unless its from family. We have to go look.
 
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