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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Also, I feel this might be relevant. I don't think the sheer mind bogging scale of the Underway is fully understood. It isn't a subway. It is much much much bigger. Enough to apparently have dragons in them even.



That isn't completely accurate, I probably put it off the assigned portions off a bit, but it is longer than Kislev. Certainly dozens of miles long.
It's something like a 6-lane highway. It's quite impressive.
 
We can't do Wardstones for the next three turns. That time is spoken for. Fine with doing them after that though.

We also do not need to do them, because they are not essential. Why? Because, very frankly, there is no credible threat which we are facing where their purpose of providing scrying defense is essential.

They are useful, because they do something that is helpful. They will provide new runes to expand our horizons. And for those two reasons we should look at them. It's why I want to look at them! The reasons for taking them are sat in a personal context. Reaching beyond that context has no basis but entirely invented ones.

So, attempting to make an argument that we are somehow obligated to research them because we are the only one who can/or is interested, that they are vital for the dwarves, or however else an argument that we are obligated to do something is made, is farcical. It just does not hold water because making that argument does this:

-It says that every other person capable of researching them who was at Dum is a moron who wouldn't have the werewithal to set aside time, and incapable. That's a scaldingly hot take not supported by anything in the story. And its a kind of player character central focus which detracts from the quality of the story and effort Soul has put in making competent characters. That's how this sort of position reads and scans.

-It implies that there is an urgency which is just not present right now. It's useful and we should do it! But it is not urgent.

And if we're not the first to get them? Uh, okay? Cool, there's more dwarves who know it, including one we couldn't teach it to since she's equivalent rank. And I presume that we'd want to spread it. Wouldn't that be a piece of serendipity if we didn't have to trade it to Igna? More lineages that have it! Sounds like a cause to celebrate for me.

And any matters of lessened prestige is like... *pans over to look at Chain and everything else we've done since Dum, slowly pans back*

I think we're fine.
 
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We can't do Wardstones for the next three turns. That time is spoken for. Fine with doing them after that though.

We also do not need to do them, because they are not essential. Why? Because, very frankly, there is no credible threat which we are facing where their purpose of providing scrying defense is essential.

They are useful, because they do something that is helpful. They will provide new runes to expand our horizons. And for those two reasons we should look at them. It's why I want to look at them! The reasons for taking them are sat in a personal context. Reaching beyond that context has no basis but entirely invented ones.

So, attempting to make an argument that we are somehow obligated to research them because we are the only one who can/or is interested, that they are vital for the dwarves, or however else an argument that we are obligated to do something is made, is farcical. It just does not hold water because making that argument does this:

-It says that every other person capable of researching them who was at Dum is a moron who wouldn't have the werewithal to set aside time, and incapable. That's a scaldingly hot take not supported by anything in the story. And its a kind of player character central focus which detracts from the quality of the story and effort Soul has put in making competent characters. That's how this sort of position reads and scans.

-It implies that there is an urgency which is just not present right now. It's useful and we should do it! But it is not urgent.

And if we're not the first to get them? Uh, okay? Cool, there's more dwarves who know it, including one we couldn't teach it to since she's equivalent rank. And I presume that we'd want to spread it. Wouldn't that be a piece of serendipity if we didn't have to trade it to Igna? More lineages that have it! Sounds like a cause to celebrate for me.

And any matters of lessened prestige is like... *pans over to look at Chain and everything else we've done since Dum, slowly pans back*

I think we're fine.
I think the upcoming guild meeting could be a good chance for getting someone else to do it. We know that the topic of the bull cultists is going to be brought up so I think the framing is:

1) Hey I figured how to make gromril chain because I'm a boss, but I'm also sharing it with you because:
1a) This thing is too important to Dawi society for me to keep the knowledge of how to do it secret
2) Hashut cultists are an enourmous threat to us and they can scry us to pick their battles
3) HOWEVER, one of their Runelords figured out how to block that before he sadly got killed
4) This is somethng also vital to Dawi society but I'm too busy to do it myself, so a couple of you beardlings should get on that mkay
 
I think the upcoming guild meeting could be a good chance for getting someone else to do it. We know that the topic of the bull cultists is going to be brought up so I think the framing is:

1) Hey I figured how to make gromril chain because I'm a boss, but I'm also sharing it with you because:
1a) This thing is too important to Dawi society for me to keep the knowledge of how to do it secret
2) Hashut cultists are an enourmous threat to us and they can scry us to pick their battles
3) HOWEVER, one of their Runelords figured out how to block that before he sadly got killed
4) This is somethng also vital to Dawi society but I'm too busy to do it myself, so a couple of you beardlings should get on that mkay
The political consequences of compelling other people to do it are murky. Soul has been consistent about essentially making us have to do it, and the only thing that gives progress without our input is basically random rolls. He's said multiple times that getting other people to do our work or research and then getting the benefits isn't really going to work.

Like, if we do it and then decide to spread it like we are Chain? I think that's actually more helpful and spread to more people and less problematic than other options, and we have that option for the third conclave in a couple centuries. Or someone else will do it at this conclave and we don't have to worry about it.
 
You'd think people would be satisfied with the chain, rather than feel the need to one up a friend over something that is the last example of her hold's runecraft too.
 
Vote closed
Scheduled vote count started by soulcake on Feb 21, 2021 at 12:09 AM, finished with 304 posts and 88 votes.
 
His beard is already completely white, what else do you want to be dyed by age? Do dwarves get paler as they get older?
I wouldn't rule out his beard being fully luminescent after another two hundred years or so, with the stuff he keeps wading through. He might be able to turn it on and off like the pull chain on a lamp with a good tug.

There has to be some weird mechanic that determines how many extra decades a dwarf gets over biological standard. Though pure willpower driving biology actually makes some sense: We literally are fueled by our unceasing desire to teach the world how shit is supposed to be done. If we actually had a few quiet decades in a row without pure liquid mania being pumped into our veins we'd be a dead dawi walking.
 
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Though pure willpower driving biology actually makes some sense: We literally are fueled by our unceasing desire to teach the world how shit is supposed to be done. If we actually had a few quiet decades in a row without pure liquid mania being pumped into our veins we'd be a dead dawi walking.
Have you seen our to do list? When the time the end times would be, assuming they have not been butterflied, rolls into town, we will probably be at the first line of defence because they stepped on an important experiment.
 
Class: Ruler

True Name: Snorri Klausson

Atribbute: Star

Alternate Class: Caster, Avenger

Description: A taller than average dawi that hails from an alien, yet strangely familiar, World. His armor obscures much of his body, the only thing exposed being his eyes, mouth and prodigious beard, the latter of which has to be looped around his belt as to not drag on the floor. In his right hip rests a smith's hammer made out of the same silver metal as his armor. Embers and tongues of flame regularly sprout from the head, and seem to rise in frequency and intensity according to it's user's mood. Runes shine on both armor and hammer constantly, teal and orange light heralding his passing.

Stats:
Strength: B
Endurance: A+
Agility: E-
Magic: None
Luck: B
NP: A++

Class Skills:

Item Creation [Rank C+]: The ability to create items of power. Normally a skill only seem in Casters, Snorri's legend is tied to his great works and thus possesses this skills in all incarnations. Normally Rank A+, but suffered a rank down upon losing both his Magic Stat and Rune Magecraft (Thungni) upon being Summoned as a Ruler. This was offset by him still possessing Zharrgal, bringing this skill's effective ranking to B+.

Independent Action [Rank C]: The ability to operate without a Master's supply of Mana. This skill is normally Rank B, but suffered a rank down due to Snorri losing the Magic stat upon being summoned as a Ruler. At this rank, Snorri can go one day without a connection to a Master.

Oblivion Correction (Dawi) [Rank EX]: The ability to remember the wrongdoings received upon the self, even when the World itself forgets it, striking down those that made into the Book of Grudges. Normally a skill reserved for Avengers, Snorri possesses this skill due to his race being incapable of forgetting the wrongdoings that their enemies unleash upon them, not resting until the Grudge is cleared by equal retribution. At this rank, all Grudges that Snorri or the dawi lay upon the enemy strengthens the former in relation of the severity of it, no matter the era, region, or world that it was written in. This skill does not stack with multiple Grudges, picking only the most severe. Grudges that are struck down only become unviable to the skill's activation when Snorri is present in the period that it was stuck, or when the latter is dematerialized.

Personal Skills:

Soul of Stone [Rank A+]: A combination of Valor and Magic Resistance, this skills protects Snorri from all but the strongest mental and magical attacks or abilities. Formed by his race's natural magic resistance and willpower, and Snorri's own deeds.

Battle Continuation [Rank A+]: The ability to continue fighting even after sustaining grievous wounds. During his life Snorri found himself face to face against opponents that brought him to the brink of death, and despite their best efforts he survived time and again, often laying low his oppenent just moments before losing counciousness. At this rank the skill allows Snorri to last well beyond his body's Endurance, surviving multiple mortal wounds and anything short of decapitation or bodly explosion.

Pioneer of The Stars [Rank ???]: The ability to achieve the 'impossible'. A skill awarded to those that bring about a 'turning point', the moment when something that was considered 'impossible' becomes 'possible'. It is unkown why the skill's rank is obscured, or what Great Achievement rewarded Snorri with this skill. Regardless of it's origin, it's a skill that is present in every single of his Incarnations.

Noble Phantasms:

Ancestral Aegis [Rank B+], Anti-Army (Self): A Dragonhide banner, with a shaft made out of an unkown type of silver bark reinforced by an equaly silver metal. Upon the banner is an image of a Dawi King slaying what appears to be a type of Ice Dragon. The Noble Phantasm isn't the banner itself, merely radiating from it. Upon activation of the Ancestral Aegis a golden shield of energy will form around an area determined by Snorri and the amount of mana put into it. All magical attacks that fail to break the shield will be abosrbed by it, strenghtening and fueling it.

Zharrgal, The Smith's Flaming Hammer [Rank A+], Anti-Gate/Anti-Army/Anti-Unit: As previosly mentioned, a hammer made out of a unkown type of silver metal, with the handle being made of the unknown silver bark with a grip of hide from a unkown type of Dragon. On the head are depictions of two unknown Dawi that Snorri claims to be "Ancestor Gods" with unknown runes on their helms. The Noble Phantam's effects are many, leading some of us to believe that it may be in fact multiple NPs. Nevertheless, the effects are:
-Anti-Gate: The user charges up an attack that blows away all but the strudiest of gates or walls, with only fortifications backed by strong defensive magic proving unaffected.
-Anti-Army: The user creates spikes of earth, brings forth magma from the depths, or send out a wave of fire that melts steel.
-Anti-Unit: The hammer blows become so powerfull that they shatter appart all but the most powerfull armaments, with even some low ranking Noble Phantams falling before it.
Sherlock's note: The hammer is also used when he makes items of power, although the system doesn't list this besides the mention on Item Creation

Barak Azamar, The Eternal Bastion [Rank A++], Anti-Unit (Self): The armor that Snorri constantly wears, made out of the same silver metal as his hammer. The same hide from an unknown type of Dragon is present as an undersuit, of note is a chainmail shirt that is made out of the silver metal. On the breast plate in an image of mountains carved into it, with a trifecta of runes in the heart of the central mountain. This Noble Phantasm is perhaps one of the greatest defensive NPs to come out of The Throne. Upon activation the user's skin turns to stone, their blood to magma and their bones to the 'silver metal'. All attacks that aren't of similar rank or above the Np or that doesn't possess the Anti-Planet, Anti-Star or Anti-World classification have their power cut by 99%. The user's body also gains increased levels of Endurance, and when their skin is breached magma shoots out towards the attacker. A field of anti-magic also forms around the user, making all spells or magical effects null, with the user having the power to select which is affected.

Gifts From The Ancestors [Rank ???]: The effect, form and classification of this NP is unkown. It's name suggests some form of connection to the figures depicted on the hammer.

Sherlock's note: I haven't beem able to find out why he is summonable in the first place, and my Inherent Insight refuses to work on him. Coupled with the tales from his world that he shared with you, a troubling picture is forming. I'll report back when I have something more concrete.

A/N: Have a shitty omake and my first contribution to the thread.
...I'm just going to say that sheet has vastly exaggerated ranks for Snorri's items, it's not actually all that creative with what should be the crystallization of his legend and not just "here is his stuff copied over", you should have a magic rank even as a Dorf because otherwise you have no energy reserves or processing and thus are literally a useless cripple, and finally Ruler needs a lack of a wish for the Grail so I'm not sure how he qualifies given he's a Dwarf and it's made of gold. Also it's got runes on it and you know how he be.

Also Barak Azamar is disgustingly exaggerated from what it actually does, that's straight up nastier than God Hand. By a massive margin.

Tone down the items, come up with something based on Snorri and not his kit, and it's... acceptable. The Oblivion Correction is very creative. The BatCon is accurate, though I'd say it should be B+ like Cu then bump up to A with Barak Azamar. And check your +, a + means "This is Rank Up under certain conditions" with ++ being bigger rank ups under those conditions.

I could see a Snorri classification for Berserker for the constant state of AND FUCK YOU ALL FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU he was in at Karak Dum.

This is a Fate nerd's look at your sheet. You may feel free to eat me alive over it, heh.
 
Friendly reminder not to descend into a FATE power measurement debate.

EDIT: I think talking about Snorri specifically is fine if it doesnt get too out of hand. But that just means either the thread moves on or I post an update
 
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Point, guys.

The Noble Phantasms are crystallized mysteries that feed off fame. So the weight of the legend is what would drive the power, not the actual mechanics of the hammer/armor/talisman.
 
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