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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Wardstone research might be much harder for Igna than for us, as she doesn't have a speciality in Odd or Esoteric Runes. If it's anything like the calculation for understanding a master rune, the total number of actions required to perform research varies between runelords, not just what traits they have to multiply it.

Igna could easily be in a situation where she needs to take on apprentice from the Dum survivors as no other runesmiths are trusted by their parents save for her and Snorri, and Snorri isn't taking any on, and she's rushed off her feet putting in the basic infrastructure of the hold.

Just as we've postponed doing the research, she, who is probably under a lot of worse action crunch, could easily have done the same.
 
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Alratan said:
Wardstone research might be much harder for Igna than for us, as she doesn't have a speciality in Odd or Esoteric Runes. If it's anything like the calculation for understanding a master rune, the total number of actions required to perform research varies between runelords, not just what traits they have to multiply it.

Igna could easily be in a situation where she needs to take on apprentice from the Dum survivors as no other runesmiths are trusted by their parents save for her and Snorri, and Snorri isn't taking any on, and she's rushed off her feet putting in the basic infrastructure of the hold.

Just as we've postponed doing the research, she, who is probably under a lot of worse action crunch, could easily have done the same.
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Her apprentices are fairly recent. It Igna several decades to be allowed around her Clan's children unsupervised.

We postponed the research because we had literal gifts from the Ancestors to unravel. Igna would have no such shiny to distract her. Research wise, the last creation of her Clan would have received top priority.

Snorri will have carried out fifty actions by the beginning of Turn 41. Let's say that Igna only has 4 actions available each turn because Snorri is a habitual loner and so gets more of his time available to spend on his craft, that is 40 actions. The Wardstone costs five actions to research. But I am willing to entertain your fantasy. Igna only took her apprentices in Turn 37, so she spent an action in Turn 36. That is 35 actions. Construction on the Karak only began, Turn 34.

She has had plenty of time. Even if she only had 1 free action each turn and the Wardstones cost her ten actions, which is completely ridiculous, she could have done it.
 
He probably means that Hold Founding is finished after the coming turn (turn 40) although we'll have the Rhunkalbrogg take up the same slot for turn 41.
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
He probably means that Hold Founding is finished after the coming turn (turn 40) although we'll have the Rhunkalbrogg take up the same slot for turn 41.
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I'm aware, it's just that even with Hold Founding, and assuming that Igna invested double the time as Snorri, she would still have the time to finish the Wardstones. Hell, even if she invested triple the amount of time.

Even if the Wardstones cost her double the actions to research as Snorri.

The idea that Igna hasn't researched the Wardstones is completely and utterly ridiculous. By Rhunkalbrogg she will have had a century to get it all done.
 
MrHobbit said:
I'm aware, it's just that even with Hold Founding, and assuming that Igna invested double the time as Snorri, she would still have the time to finish the Wardstones. Hell, even if she invested triple the amount of time.

Even if the Wardstones cost her double the actions to research as Snorri.

The idea that Igna hasn't researched the Wardstones is completely and utterly ridiculous. By Rhunkalbrogg she will have had a century to get it all done.
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...I wasn't talking to you I was talking to EldritchObserver you just happened to post well I was writing my own post.
 
Turn 323334353637383940
Hold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold Founding
Hold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold Founding
Hold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold Founding
ApprenticeApprenticeApprenticeApprenticeApprentice

Hmm, it does appear that if she spent triple the time as Snorri and had less actions she couldn't have fit it in. But that much Hold Founding is rather ridiculous. That's a similar cost to finishing the Underway.

Sir LagsAlot said:
...I wasn't talking to you I was talking to EldritchObserver you just happened to post just before I did.
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Ah, apologies.
 
Yeah and even if Igna never got around to it, Valma and Dwalin also have the wardstones and could have done it. Any of the three could probably have had the time to do it and the summons probably kicks it up in priority if they haven't yet.
 
soulcake said:
Though it's come far earlier than usual, Rhunkalbrogg has been called twenty years hence, and any Runelords able to attend are asked to do so.
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Hrmm, Rhunkalbrogg is going to be in 322 A.P., which is at the end of Turn 41, while the last Rhunkalbrogg was at the beginning of the turn.

>_>

Which means that even if Igna only had 4 actions each turn, and had to spend 27 actions on Hold Founding, she would have seven free actions to research the Wardstones instead of four.
 
Alratan said:
Wardstone research might be much harder for Igna than for us, as she doesn't have a speciality in Odd or Esoteric Runes. If it's anything like the calculation for understanding a master rune, the total number of actions required to perform research varies between runelords, not just what traits they have to multiply it.

Igna could easily be in a situation where she needs to take on apprentice from the Dum survivors as no other runesmiths are trusted by their parents save for her and Snorri, and Snorri isn't taking any on, and she's rushed off her feet putting in the basic infrastructure of the hold.

Just as we've postponed doing the research, she, who is probably under a lot of worse action crunch, could easily have done the same.
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we need light and mind to forfill an oath
 
Guys, can you please stop worrying at that? We can't do anything about it, so discussing whether or not she beats us to the punch just feels like a needless raising of tensions within the thread.
 
ThatGuyMike said:
This should be EX, as its taping into deep magic that runs through the planet. It could very easily, in the fate setting that is, be tapping into Gaia's Counter Force. Other then that, tis a fine enough fate sheet.
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Thank you for the praise, but I disagree with your assessment. While Barak Azamar is a awesome piece of armor, I don't think that it should be considered a peer to Ea, which Snorri already ignores due to Pioneer, and I don't think that it could tank through a Excaliblast like it would had it been EX Rank like you suggest.

Ruler Snorri is already powerful as he is, he doesn't need to walk right through the majority of Servant attacks. More than he already does that is.

So, yeah, Barak Azamar is A++ due to balance, mostly.
 
Alratan said:
I'd expect building a hold to be much more work than the Underway, not less.
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If you want to see how many actions it costs for a Runelord to do their part in finishing a hold go look at the start of the quest it cost us a lot to do for Kraka Drakk but we were still able to finish things like the early stages of Rune Metal and some mat science research. And, arguably she'd have to do less than we did there as she'd have Snorri helping her out which would go a pretty long way.
 
ThatGuyMike said:
With the risk of derailment; EX rank doesn't equal power.
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I'm using the Type-Moon wiki's explanation of parameters, and yes I am aware that it's a wiki and therefore shouldn't be held as WOG since anyone can edit it.

But my point on balance still stands, Barak Azamar still affects most NPs with a rank of A++. It's powerful, but In my opinion it does not qualify for EX Rank.

And Eki's Enuma elish is normally A++, but you can upgarde it to EX in FGO.
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
If you want to see how many actions it costs for a Runelord to do their part in finishing a hold go look at the start of the quest it cost us a lot to do for Kraka Drakk but we were still able to finish things like the early stages of Rune Metal and some mat science research. And, arguably she'd have to do less than we did there as she'd have Snorri helping her out which would go a pretty long way.
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There were multiple other master runesmiths involved, possibly multiple other Runelords involved in founding Kraka Drakk. They just moved on to other northern holds afterwards and then died during the Coming of Chaos.

Standards for desirable levels of runic defences may well have risen since then as well.
 
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Alratan said:
There were multiple other master runesmiths involved, possibly multiple other Runelords involved in founding Kraka Drakk. They just moved on to other northern holds afterwards and then died during the Coming of Chaos.

Standards for desirable levels of runic defences may well have risen since then as well.
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The other Runelords had left Kraka Drakk by the time the Quest began.

Kraka Drakk is much bigger than the Kraka Grom, and the Underway was a larger project than both.

soulcake said:
Around you, dwarfs bustle about with purpose and dignity, following the traditional steps in which a hold is founded according to Valaya, a rather barebones town on the surface is where most of you are holed up until the main halls are built. Many of the families here are young by the standards for your people, only fullbeards really, with enough elders to keep everything proper and make sure things are done right. Many of the older runesmiths, your fellow Runelords included, who were part of the initial convoy have continued on further north. You've volunteered to stay here and keep an eye on things with plans to join your fellows up north in a century or two.
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Notice how all of the Dwarfs were still living on the surface and that the main halls hadn't even been finished yet?

Hell, Kraka Grom would almost certainly have more help because of all the favors Snorri called in.
 
MrHobbit said:
Hell, Kraka Grom would almost certainly have more help because of all the favors Snorri called in.
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Almost certainly.

-The vast majority of the original Kraka Drakk immigrants were younger (relatively speaking) dwarfs.
-There wasn't a king or even a clear chain of command until 50 years into things.
-Craft expertise was much farther away, given the neighboring holds were even smaller/younger.
-The neighbours were also developing themsleves from scratch, so there was no surplus labour available from other nearby holds
 
Alratan said:
There were multiple other master runesmiths involved, possibly multiple other Runelords involved in founding Kraka Drakk. They just moved on to other northern holds afterwards and then died during the Coming of Chaos.
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Considering Snorri personally runed every single major part of Kraka Drakk with help of his apprentices, personally runed the equipment of the King and his guard, and did a significant portion of the hold's throng I'm going to have to press X to doubt here that the relative action costs for Snorri were lower than they are for Igna. Snorri even specifically called out the sections of the hold he didn't do but instead left to younger Runesmiths and it pretty much boils down to a single district (the commercial district) and smaller things like the siege storage.

But let's be generous here and throw in an extra 8 actions to cover both of those (and that's being quite generous considering entire districts normally take 2) bringing her up to around 38 actions needed to finish the hold well we know Snorri has invested 8 actions into the hold so that brings us right back down to around 30 actions which she could cover with actions left over during the eight turns the project lasted not to mention the free turn she'll have before the Rhunkalbrogg.

And keep in mind we still only arrive at such an action cost if she decided she needed to rune every single part of Karak Dum personally, actively designed large portions of it on top of that such as the defenses, well also deciding that she needed to personally equip the Queen and her guard and then decided she needed to personally equip a portion of the hold's throng with runic gear on top of that. Like the only way, her action costs could feasibly get any larger than this is if she decided to provide the entire throng with runic gear herself and decided she needed to carve every single light rune into every single hall in the hold by herself.

Edit: This is also assuming that she has zero traits to reduce action costs with so she's paying the raw action costs for everything as well.
 
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Also, I feel this might be relevant. I don't think the sheer mind bogging scale of the Underway is fully understood. It isn't a subway. It is much much much bigger. Enough to apparently have dragons in them even.



That isn't completely accurate, I probably put it off the assigned portions off a bit, but it is longer than Kislev. Certainly dozens of miles long.
 
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