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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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This great colonization wave that gonna happen in a few turn is it directed in any way? for example is it mainly heading toward western part of old world or is a general one heading to frontiers everywhere so norsca, old world, mountains of mourne exc?

also so it is either do the gazul commission or gate to the sea?
 
NGL, imagining the faces on a Scaven raiding party, Beastmen, or some Dark Elves when what they thought was a large hill stands up amuses me far more than it should.
 
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This great colonization wave that gonna happen in a few turn is it directed in any way? for example is it mainly heading toward western part of old world or is a general one heading to frontiers everywhere so norsca, old world, mountains of mourne exc?

also so it is either do the gazul commission or gate to the sea?
We can do both, but I doubt that people who vote for one will vote for the other. Doing the Gate to the Sea will require not Understanding Valaya's Runes.

We don't know where the new colonization wave is headed for sure. I suspect that it is headed for the Grey and Black Mountains, where Karstah is headed.
 
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This great colonization wave that gonna happen in a few turn is it directed in any way? for example is it mainly heading toward western part of old world or is a general one heading to frontiers everywhere so norsca, old world, mountains of mourne exc?

also so it is either do the gazul commission or gate to the sea?
I believe it's to the west into what the Empire calls the Grey Mountains from what Soulcake has said. Could be misremembering though.

Basically what happens is that if we take both, we are going to be devoting most of our actions to commissions for five turns. We could do that, but I don't want to, which is part of the reasons I'm advocating for not taking Gate to the Sea.
 
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Our precious time is limited, aye. Considering we have lots of commissions for the various cults, might as well let the local Runelord(s) deal with that particular Gate, as much as it pains for us to admit, uwu, and pray to the Ancestors they do not bungle it up.
 
I'd say that the colonisation wave is probably going to head out in all directions from the older dwarfholds. So we'll see colonisation along the Gianthome Mountains of Norsca, down the Mountains of Mourne in the east, and into the Black and Grey Mountains and then the Vaults and Inna Mountains after then.

At some stage the surface settlements we know were destroyed or abandoned during the Time of Woe will probably get founded as well.
 
I believe it's to the west into what the Empire calls the Grey Mountains from what Soulcake has said. Could be misremembering though.

Basically what happens is that if we take both, we are going to be devoting most of our actions to commissions for five turns. We could do that, but I don't want to, which is part of the reasons I'm advocating for not taking Gate to the Sea.
That's basically my argument for not doing Gazul tbh.
 
Something I haven't seen brought up with regards to the gate is it's possible adding chain to the Valayan commission will also add actions to it in which case we wouldn't have time to do chain for it and the gate. Relatedly, something I'm still a bit worried about is that adding chain may only be an option for non simple requests in which case we might not be able to add it to the Valayan order at all. If that does happen I would like to propose that we spend a few actions turn 38 designing and making a suit of adamant armour with gromril chain and MValaya on it to be delivered alongside the other suits we make as part of the request.
 
Something I haven't seen brought up with regards to the gate is it's possible adding chain to the Valayan commission will also add actions to it in which case we wouldn't have time to do chain for it and the gate. Relatedly, something I'm still a bit worried about is that adding chain may only be an option for non simple requests in which case we might not be able to add it to the Valayan order at all. If that does happen I would like to propose that we spend a few actions turn 38 designing and making a suit of adamant armour with gromril chain and MValaya on it to be delivered alongside the other suits we make as part of the request.
If we can't, we can't but still have chain to use for other stuff. I could see doing the suit but personally I don't think gromril chain is going to add actions to a simple commission since Snorri is a time management god and once he figures out a method that works for other runesmiths he won't have to spend more than a year in a furnace pounding on his knee like a peg.
 
[Canon] Elderly Wisdsom, +15 to a Retainer Roll [USED]
Also, @bird yells, if you happen to feel inspired, I'd love to read about Arnfinn's reaction to Nightfeather's 'unprecedented' success.

"Arnfinn!"

He turned to see who had called out for him and found himself catching a glimpse of his dear grandmother on the other side of the street. It had been bustling with a great many people, but they were clearly unwilling to get between an elder and a descendant in need of correction; the crowd parted before her like water as she walked towards him. "Don't think I don't see you there, young man. Were you about to sneak past me without so much as a by your leave?"

"Uh, hello, gramma," Arnfinn said. "I didn't spot you because I was talking with my friend Nightfeather here, you see, about how he's been accepted into the Hearth Guard-"

"I can see the griffon, fool boy, be blind and senile if I couldn't." She squinted up at the griffon in question. "Lord Snorri picked youse for a new retainer, you say?"

Arnfinn fidgeted in place, feeling severely self-conscious and wondering if he should say something or just keep his mouth shut and hope for the best. Gramma wasn't exactly a brana-hater, but she'd lived her whole life by the maxim that decent dwarfs ought not to associate too closely with anything that didn't come from the bottom of a mineshaft and, as with any dwarf her age, wasn't one to change her mind in a hurry. She still hadn't quite come round to the idea of seeing giant magical bird people pass her in the street, to say nothing of having them don symbols of office and taking on roles that would once have been reserved for the most respected of longbeards. He'd really have preferred to have delayed letting her meet his friend until after the tectonic shifts of changing elderly opinion had done their work and made her more amenable to the whole thing, in maybe five hundred years or so. Managing introductions out on the street with no forewarning was less than ideal.

Nightfeather, to his credit, held up well in the face of suspicious matronly scrutiny. "It is so, esteemed elder. I have harboured the ambition to serve in the Gift Giver's retinue for some time, and recently sought to realise it by petitioning Lord Snorri. To my great honour, he acceded to my request and permitted me to swear the oaths."

Gramma sniffed, unimpressed. "I hope you're satisfied with yourself, then."

"Certainly not," Nightfeather said solemnly. "I am elated to have been chosen, of course, but also cognisant of the weight of my new responsibilities. In making his choice, Lord Snorri has set a new precedent, never before seen by the mountain folk; it falls to me and my fellows to show the precedent is worth following. I will only be satisfied once I have proven, by my actions and in the eyes of the citizens of this hold, that my Lord did not err in elevating me."

"Hnh." Gramma's sniff was not exactly any less disapproving than the last one, but it seemed like she did not immediately find specific fault with the response. "Well, I suppose congratulations are in order."

"My thanks." Some terrible premonition made Arnfinn glance up at Nightfeather's face, then, and he felt his stomach twist at the sight. The crowface wasn't making any particular expression, not that he was especially well-equipped to emote with it in the first place, but there was a certain gleam in his eye that Arnfinn had seen before and which only ever showed up when Nightfeather thought he was being funny. But he had been far too late in spotting it, alas, because Nightfeather was already opening his beak again... "Although I would be remiss in not mentioning the part friend Arnfinn had to play in my success." Oh no. "His advice on how mountainfolk elders are expected to comport themselves proved invaluable as I prepared to lodge my petition."

"Oh?" The full force of gramma's squint was suddenly and uncomfortably transferred over to him. "Our Arnfinn's bin going about giving lectures about how a greatbeard oughta behave, has he?"

"Indeed." Please don't mention the ass beard thing, please don't- "It was he who first explained the difficulties I would face in pursuing my aspirations." A momentary flash of relief. "Even so, he encouraged me to chase my dream. It is fair to say that, but for friend Arnfinn's counsel, I would not have succeeded."

It really wasn't fair, Arnfinn thought faintly. Gramma's eyes had narrowed to the point they were functionally shut; for all intents and purposes, she was just standing about with her eyes closed and her face pointed in his direction. Why, then, did her stare feel like a thousand trip hammers pounding on his head? "Downright amazin' to hear about our Arnfinn putting all his knowledge as an elder to use, breaking new ground and doing what no dwarf never did before. You really must come visit sometime soon, Arnfinn, and regale us with the full tale of your exploits."

He took a moment to wrestle back control over his Adam's apple, which had been making round trips between the roof of his mouth and the pit of his stomach, before answering. "I, uh, of course, gramma. I'll come by first thing."

"See that you do," she said, leaving it up to him to imagine what unspeakable retributions might follow if he didn't. She turned on her heel and walked off, her boots making not a single sound as they touched the stone; he lost sight of her for an instant when a burly man walked between them and, when the obstruction cleared, she was nowhere to be seen.

He turned to Nightfeather again, who was sitting on his haunches with his tail swishing lazily behind him. Maybe there was a better visual representation of smug satisfaction out there, but he certainly couldn't think of any. "I can't believe you did that, you- you squint-dodger! Now she's gonna tell people I put you up to this whole retainer thing!"

"I could not say what you mean," Nightfeather said serenely. "Every word I spoke was truthful and accurate. And is it not said that we must always be truthful, when addressing our elders?"

Arnfinn harrumphed. "You coulda still warned me that you were about to divert her attention to me. At least that way I woulda got a running start. Gramma's eye beams put yours to shame, as I'm sure you noticed."

"Perhaps it was a little unsporting of me," Nightfeather allowed. "In that case, would you permit me to settle our accounts by, say, purchasing you a pint?"

"Three pints," Arnfinn shot back instantly.

"It is settled," Nightfeather said, just as quickly.

"Uh, yeah, it's a deal!" Having made absolutely sure there would be no takebacks, Arnfinn felt it was only fair to give his friend some advice for future reference. "You know you don't have to agree straight away, right? Usually you're supposed to haggle me down to two pints, or challenge me to a bet over them or something. People might look at you funny if it's too easy to make you part with your gold."

"For most dwarfs, I am sure, you would be correct. But I am expected to follow the example set by my patron, am I not? As a servant of the honourable Gift Giver, small generosities are surely within my remit." He tried to pass it off as a casual thing, but Arnfinn didn't miss how his plumage burred up just a little when he said it. He really was very proud of having been accepted, wasn't he?

Arnfinn huffed out a little laugh. "All right, don't start preening your feathers out in the street, ya big lug. Let's go hit a pub, and after I've got those pints in me, maybe I'll see about trying to forgive you for throwing me to the wolves back then."

"If the first three are insufficient, perhaps a fourth will help. Please lead the way, friend Arnfinn."
 
If we can't, we can't but still have chain to use for other stuff. I could see doing the suit but personally I don't think gromril chain is going to add actions to a simple commission since Snorri is a time management god and once he figures out a method that works for other runesmiths he won't have to spend more than a year in a furnace pounding on his knee like a peg.
I'm hopeful you're right but I thought I'd bring it up just in case, so it doesn't come out of nowhere. Hope for the best prepare for the worst and all that.
 
"Arnfinn!"

He turned to see who had called out for him and found himself catching a glimpse of his dear grandmother on the other side of the street. It had been bustling with a great many people, but they were clearly unwilling to get between an elder and a descendant in need of correction; the crowd parted before her like water as she walked towards him. "Don't think I don't see you there, young man. Were you about to sneak past me without so much as a by your leave?"

"Uh, hello, gramma," Arnfinn said. "I didn't spot you because I was talking with my friend Nightfeather here, you see, about how he's been accepted into the Hearth Guard-"

"I can see the griffon, fool boy, be blind and senile if I couldn't." She squinted up at the griffon in question. "Lord Snorri picked youse for a new retainer, you say?"

Arnfinn fidgeted in place, feeling severely self-conscious and wondering if he should say something or just keep his mouth shut and hope for the best. Gramma wasn't exactly a brana-hater, but she'd lived her whole life by the maxim that decent dwarfs ought not to associate too closely with anything that didn't come from the bottom of a mineshaft and, as with any dwarf her age, wasn't one to change her mind in a hurry. She still hadn't quite come round to the idea of seeing giant magical bird people pass her in the street, to say nothing of having them don symbols of office and taking on roles that would once have been reserved for the most respected of longbeards. He'd really have preferred to have delayed letting her meet his friend until after the tectonic shifts of changing elderly opinion had done their work and made her more amenable to the whole thing, in maybe five hundred years or so. Managing introductions out on the street with no forewarning was less than ideal.

Nightfeather, to his credit, held up well in the face of suspicious matronly scrutiny. "It is so, esteemed elder. I have harboured the ambition to serve in the Gift Giver's retinue for some time, and recently sought to realise it by petitioning Lord Snorri. To my great honour, he acceded to my request and permitted me to swear the oaths."

Gramma sniffed, unimpressed. "I hope you're satisfied with yourself, then."

"Certainly not," Nightfeather said solemnly. "I am elated to have been chosen, of course, but also cognisant of the weight of my new responsibilities. In making his choice, Lord Snorri has set a new precedent, never before seen by the mountain folk; it falls to me and my fellows to show the precedent is worth following. I will only be satisfied once I have proven, by my actions and in the eyes of the citizens of this hold, that my Lord did not err in elevating me."

"Hnh." Gramma's sniff was not exactly any less disapproving than the last one, but it seemed like she did not immediately find specific fault with the response. "Well, I suppose congratulations are in order."

"My thanks." Some terrible premonition made Arnfinn glance up at Nightfeather's face, then, and he felt his stomach twist at the sight. The crowface wasn't making any particular expression, not that he was especially well-equipped to emote with it in the first place, but there was a certain gleam in his eye that Arnfinn had seen before and which only ever showed up when Nightfeather thought he was being funny. But he had been far too late in spotting it, alas, because Nightfeather was already opening his beak again... "Although I would be remiss in not mentioning the part friend Arnfinn had to play in my success." Oh no. "His advice on how mountainfolk elders are expected to comport themselves proved invaluable as I prepared to lodge my petition."

"Oh?" The full force of gramma's squint was suddenly and uncomfortably transferred over to him. "Our Arnfinn's bin going about giving lectures about how a greatbeard oughta behave, has he?"

"Indeed." Please don't mention the ass beard thing, please don't- "It was he who first explained the difficulties I would face in pursuing my aspirations." A momentary flash of relief. "Even so, he encouraged me to chase my dream. It is fair to say that, but for friend Arnfinn's counsel, I would not have succeeded."

It really wasn't fair, Arnfinn thought faintly. Gramma's eyes had narrowed to the point they were functionally shut; for all intents and purposes, she was just standing about with her eyes closed and her face pointed in his direction. Why, then, did her stare feel like a thousand trip hammers pounding on his head? "Downright amazin' to hear about our Arnfinn putting all his knowledge as an elder to use, breaking new ground and doing what no dwarf never did before. You really must come visit sometime soon, Arnfinn, and regale us with the full tale of your exploits."

He took a moment to wrestle back control over his Adam's apple, which had been making round trips between the roof of his mouth and the pit of his stomach, before answering. "I, uh, of course, gramma. I'll come by first thing."

"See that you do," she said, leaving it up to him to imagine what unspeakable retributions might follow if he didn't. She turned on her heel and walked off, her boots making not a single sound as they touched the stone; he lost sight of her for an instant when a burly man walked between them and, when the obstruction cleared, she was nowhere to be seen.

He turned to Nightfeather again, who was sitting on his haunches with his tail swishing lazily behind him. Maybe there was a better visual representation of smug satisfaction out there, but he certainly couldn't think of any. "I can't believe you did that, you- you squint-dodger! Now she's gonna tell people I put you up to this whole retainer thing!"

"I could not say what you mean," Nightfeather said serenely. "Every word I spoke was truthful and accurate. And is it not said that we must always be truthful, when addressing our elders?"

Arnfinn harrumphed. "You coulda still warned me that you were about to divert her attention to me. At least that way I woulda got a running start. Gramma's eye beams put yours to shame, as I'm sure you noticed."

"Perhaps it was a little unsporting of me," Nightfeather allowed. "In that case, would you permit me to settle our accounts by, say, purchasing you a pint?"

"Three pints," Arnfinn shot back instantly.

"It is settled," Nightfeather said, just as quickly.

"Uh, yeah, it's a deal!" Having made absolutely sure there would be no takebacks, Arnfinn felt it was only fair to give his friend some advice for future reference. "You know you don't have to agree straight away, right? Usually you're supposed to haggle me down to two pints, or challenge me to a bet over them or something. People might look at you funny if it's too easy to make you part with your gold."

"For most dwarfs, I am sure, you would be correct. But I am expected to follow the example set by my patron, am I not? As a servant of the honourable Gift Giver, small generosities are surely within my remit." He tried to pass it off as a casual thing, but Arnfinn didn't miss how his plumage burred up just a little when he said it. He really was very proud of having been accepted, wasn't he?

Arnfinn huffed out a little laugh. "All right, don't start preening your feathers out in the street, ya big lug. Let's go hit a pub, and after I've got those pints in me, maybe I'll see about trying to forgive you for throwing me to the wolves back then."

"If the first three are insufficient, perhaps a fourth will help. Please lead the way, friend Arnfinn."

All of my yes. Thank you very kindly. :D
 
Ah, the very classic tradition of newbies in military-ish formations everywhere. Use their new paycheck to get roaring drunk.

...Ancestors, what must a drunken Brana be like to subdue. They regenerate, they're huge, and they're tough as all get out.
 
Ah, the very classic tradition of newbies in military-ish formations everywhere. Use their new paycheck to get roaring drunk.

...Ancestors, what must a drunken Brana be like to subdue. They regenerate, they're huge, and they're tough as all get out.
The regeneration is probably helpful actually, means you can smack 'em real good to make them listen and they'll be fine. I do expect that most dwarf bouncers are armored, as a matter of course and that tradition's probably just gotten more refined in Kraka Drakk.

*imagines a bouncer that looks vaguely like an Ironbreaker getting gnawed on by an extremely drunk brana while whacking it in the head with a ham sized fist and scooting it out the door*
 
Looking back to the last update, I noticed that the Chamon attracting egg way laid in the Brana's quarters closest to the dwarves.

I wonder if that's caused by the dwarves industry attracting Chamon, and that influencing the development of the Brana by pre-natal exposure.

If they nested around a volcano would that tend to Aqshy using Brana being hatched, I wonder, or, if the elves get recruited and the Brana are willing, whether they could chose the Wind affinity of their children by incubating their eggs in mono-Wind environments?
 
Looking back to the last update, I noticed that the Chamon attracting egg way laid in the Brana's quarters closest to the dwarves.

I wonder if that's caused by the dwarves industry attracting Chamon, and that influencing the development of the Brana by pre-natal exposure.

If they nested around a volcano would that tend to Aqshy using Brana being hatched, I wonder, or, if the elves get recruited and the Brana are willing, whether they could chose the Wind affinity of their children by incubating their eggs in mono-Wind environments?
Another important question: what happens if an egg is exposed to dhar or qhaysh? Dhar in particular could be very bad, I could see Hashut cultists stealing eggs to do it deliberately.

Also I wonder if the Brana will ask Snorri to look at the egg, as the oldest runelord and one of the most trusted runesmiths in the hold.
 
Another important question: what happens if an egg is exposed to dhar or qhaysh? Dhar in particular could be very bad, I could see Hashut cultists stealing eggs to do it deliberately.

Also I wonder if the Brana will ask Snorri to look at the egg, as the oldest runelord and one of the most trusted runesmiths in the hold.

True Dhar* or Warpstone could wel do very bad things, but Qhaysh isn't a substance, it's a process. Of course, a persistent High Magic spell cast on a Brana egg throughout incubation would expose the developing chick to multiple Winds woven together in harmony, which might have its own effects.

What might be a substance is the Deep Magic that Snorri can empower his runes with, so a Brana egg incubated somewhere that he's inscribed with runes from now on might have an interesting affinity.

* I'm not sure that the Sorcerers of Hashut would be using True Dhar though. They're more likely to just be using pure divine magic, or possibly regular messy multi-Wind spells using the Dhar process. Having a Brana egg incubated in a temple might produce concerning effects, particular in a temple of an evil god.

Depending on what Dhar versus True Dhar is here of, course.
 
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Also I wonder if the Brana will ask Snorri to look at the egg, as the oldest runelord and one of the most trusted runesmiths in the hold.
That sounds risky to me, because of the 'Windstiller' thing. I would not be surprised if proximity to a Runelord could stunt the unborn Gryphon's magic or even lead to a stillbirth.
If the attunement to the dominant Wind is a core part of development, the absence of such is likely to cause damage.
 
That sounds risky to me, because of the 'Windstiller' thing. I would not be surprised if proximity to a Runelord could stunt the unborn Gryphon's magic or even lead to a stillbirth.
If the attunement to the dominant Wind is a core part of development, the absence of such is likely to cause damage.
how certain are we that its a griffin egg and not just an egg they found out there somewhere?
 
So I know there's been some discussion about the idea of crafting a specialty anvil to improve the quality of Snorri's work even further and I have roughly two ideas for it that I don't think have been discussed yet although that may be due to how they would both require research to get done.

The first and most likely to be rendered redundant of the two ideas is to do some more research into the adamant and master rune of purification lines so that we can potentially slap a set of runes on the anvil that will continuously refine whatever Snorri is making to improve its quality as we already have Barak Azamar to imbue what we make with deep magic and Zharrgal to refine the technical side of crafting so the anvil's purpose would be to refine the quality of the ingredients Snorri is using to craft as its one of the few things we don't have an item boosting yet.

Unfourtanetly this idea could potentially be replaced by alchemy in the future as this would fall precisely into its niche although alchemy might just end being for transmutation or they could end up complementing each other so who knows.

The second and considerably more out-there idea (which is honestly unlikely to work) would be to turn the anvil into a gronti so to speak so that it can actively collaborate with Snorri well crafting in some manner although what it'd actually do and how is still very much up in the air. This idea would also most likely be locked behind further research into the Movement of Things research tree as well so we can't exactly pull it off right now either plus runesmiths don't like working with others at the best of times let alone during the actual crafting process.
 
If we get far enough into the Happening of Things chain an anvil that can twist fate to improve the objects worked on it, or even to imbue them with the ability to defy fate themselves could be a possibility.
 
If we get far enough into the Happening of Things chain an anvil that can twist fate to improve the objects worked on it, or even to imbue them with the ability to defy fate themselves could be a possibility.
Could be a derivative of the rune of fate (it does precog right now but it's the closest we have well we don't have it either but we know it exists at least) and I just recalled the existence of the master rune of wandering which provides a large speed buff so we could potentially make Snorri more productive by including that.
 
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