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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Mr8 said:
How do Runelord economics work? We know from the apprentice sections that their work is more mercantile/transactional in nature.
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Okay, so broadly, I think there are three general phases in a runesmith's life. The first phase, which is journeyman to their early mastery, is basically transactional. People like Dolgi do work and get paid for it, typically in money. While they are doing research, it is done as they can between commissions. Once they have a comfortable nest egg, they start primarily trading in prestige and favors, and spending much of their time on research, while also doing comissions of some significance. This is where we are, and have been for most of the quest, since Snorri found a literal gold mine. Then you have the final stage, where the runelord has become so prestigious and well established that he no longer needs to work commissions, and tends to hole up and do research basically full time, only doing some work either as a favor, or because it is interesting in some way.
 
Mr8 said:
I understand that there is a metaphorical invisitext that says 'and a big pile of gold that makes negligible difference to Snorri's networth' on most of the requests, but that sort-of leans into one the points; any sort of monetary payment is functionally meaningless, is it even there?

That leaves 2 impactful areas of reward; IOU Chips (Favour) and 'We'll like you more' (Standing). There is a third super meta nebulous reward: quester satisfaction/flexing/narrative payoff/story progression

I don't know, but it still feels a bit less. I don't know what I'm trying to get at, which is why I'm asking the question to spur some discussion. How would you motivate an eccentric billionaire into spending considerable effort away from their passion-projects (e.g. stuff like Rune Research) to do your specific project? Like, T4/5 rune &/or structural materials?
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Well...
Often you don't? The older and richer the Runesmith is the more likely they are to sequester themselves and just research.

Apart from that, personal interest, following religious practices, the desire to flex on Beardlings, actually liking their job and wanting to do it, doing their duty, "help the hold is drowning in Beastmen", wanting to make the hold a nicer place, stuff like that?

Could I ask you a question, given that our job is craft legendary artifacts, what possible reward could there be except social standing? Even if dwarves where willing to sell the high tier items, we could just make them ourselves.
 
Mr8 said:
I understand that Snorri is G I G A R I C H such that monetary concerns do not really enter into his consideration, and the level that he operates at anyway has moved away from such pedestrian things such as gold. As well as it's one less annoyance to track in terms at a meta-quest mechanics level.
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Not only that, but if he asked, Kraka Drakk would probably make a swimming pool filled with gold for him, Scrooge McDuck style.

Of course, Snorri would immediately turn it into a public swimming pool for all the beardlings, but that's beside the point.
 
Anyone want to take on a project to help dawi society generally? Like by aiding the Scribes Guild via runes of Transcription?
soulcake said:
Now, aiding the Scribes Guild in fulfilling their task and maybe pushing them to expand their remit to other pursuits that would inadvertently increase the output of and therefore the amount of writing available, which via osmosis would slowly improve the literacy rate among Dawi!?

WELL...

...that's none of your business
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Obviously with politics and favor involved
soulcake said:
EDIT: To be clear. This will take political finagling, invariably use Favour to pull off, and may not be what you intended, but something close to what I think you're going for can be done. 'Course, there are implications as to this course of action.
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Also, general reminder that a lot of beardlings aren't literate-
soulcake said:
Dwarfs still live in a preindustrial society so literacy isn't guaranteed. The average Dwarf probably knows enough of the Klinkarhun and Agrurhun to get by but aside from the recordkeepers and loremasters a lot of Dwarf history is orally transmitted from elder to beardling and remembered with great precision, but is still nevertheless checked against the written accounts by those who can read from time to time. Not that the elders will brook any correction from anyone but their peers or elders.
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Very shameful tbh
 
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Remake said:
Now all I can think about is Snorri trying to make a swimming pool and thread making it a dwarf Disney World
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[] Gold Municipal Swimming Pool Simple, 2 actions, Productivity Like No Other, Journeyman of the Odd, Soul of the Earth will proc

Thread: Let's put five actions into it, have our retainers hunt down a petting zoo, and add Gronti for the proper animatronic feel and so Mind for Constructs somehow applies too
 
Dark as Silver said:
Could I ask you a question, given that our job is craft legendary artifacts, what possible reward could there be except social standing? Even if dwarves where willing to sell the high tier items, we could just make them ourselves.
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Well, one of a Runelord's three main jobs is to make legendary artifacts. The others are the temporal responsibility as a Grandmaster in the Guild to set the standards, education, and governance of guild members and aspiring guild members, along with how the guild as a corporate body interacts with other institutions and the wider public, and there's also the sacred responsibilities as a High Priest in the Cult of Thungni to lead and inspire the faithful.

We are a Runelord, not just a Runesmith. The lord piece is very important. We're not like Yorri, who chose to stay a runelord and not take on those two additional categories of responsibilities that are the key part of becoming a runelord.
 
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Alratan said:
Well, one of a Runelord's three main jobs is to make legendary artifacts. The others are the temporal responsibility as a Grandmaster in the Guild to set the standards, education, and governance of guild members and aspiring guild members, along with how the guild as a corporate body interacts with other institutions and the wider public, and there's also the sacred responsibilities as a High Priest in the Cult of Thungni to lead and inspire the faithful.

We are a Runelord, not just a Runesmith. The lord piece is very important. We're not like Yorri, who chose to stay a runelord and not take on those two additional categories of responsibilities that are the key part of becoming a runelord.
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... Ignore point of discussion, must nitpick...
Fine Alratan, our main mechanical ability in the quest is creating artifacts. How does what you had to say advance or push against my argument that there isn't any realistic mechanical reward commissions can give us except for socials?
 
Dark as Silver said:
... Ignore point of discussion, must nitpick...
Fine Alratan, our main mechanical ability in the quest is creating artifacts. How does what you had to say advance or push against my argument that there isn't any realistic mechanical reward commissions can give us except for socials?
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We have our retainers who can take on multiple actions per turn that are nothing to do with making things, and this is likely to be an increasingly important part of the quest.

The big reward that commissions can give us is to actually effect change, to have influence that we can use to make the world a better place. We could effectively trade commissions in return for, example, policy changes down the line.

We could, and indeed do effectively trade commissions for assistance with research, or for novel ingredients, or, now, for interesting books. It's just generalised behind the favour economy rather than explicit currency.

It's not just about social standing, it also seems to be some degree of mutual backscratching, although probably socially presented less cyclically.
 
Alratan said:
We have our retainers who can take on multiple actions per turn that are nothing to do with making things, and this is likely to be an increasingly important part of the quest.

The big reward that commissions can give us is to actually effect change, to have influence that we can use to make the world a better place. We could effectively trade commissions in return for, example, policy changes down the line.

We could, and indeed do effectively trade commissions for assistance with research, or for novel ingredients, or, now, for interesting books. It's just generalised behind the favour economy rather than explicit currency.

It's not just about social standing, it also seems to be some degree of mutual backscratching, although probably socially presented less cyclically.
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there you are Mr8, favour can be exchanged for goods and services :);):V now you know.
 
I wonder what is a limit to Gronti size...

We can build normal-sized.
We can build ogre-sized.
We can build bloodthirster-size.

Would it be possible to go further, if not now then in future? Mountain that walks size?
Majestic hill-sized stone gronti said:
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When something is big enough, it's very mass and strength becomes its own quality. And with enough mass, it could be legendary.

Imagine something like that, giant statues on both side of entrance to the karak. And when war comes... they stand and walk. Something like that could contend with foe even such as Kholek Suneater.




...as a side note, when I was looking for suitable picture, I've also found whole library of bad! ME EYES ARE BURNING!!!
Arrrgghhhhhhh!


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kinglugia said:
So... what do we know about Thungni's known wife? Is she basically the same one who birthed Durin and Alric Thungnisson, or is she a different one?
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I'd guess that Vanya is the same one who birthed Durin and Alric. Angkra was guessed (... huh that was you) to be around two thousand five hundred years old. She was probably born around 2597 B.P. Or -7120 going by the Imperial Calendar.

>_>

That, shouldn't work. Itza was founded around -10000 IC, that doesn't really give the Dwarfs much time at all to like, be born. Like, at best that gives the Zornish only a three thousand years to bicker and for the Ancestors to show up. But the Dwarfs wouldn't have been created right after Itza. Not all of the Slann had even been Spawned yet!

... It does say that she is the youngest living daughter of Thungni.
 
MrHobbit said:
I'd guess that Vanya is the same one who birthed Durin and Alric. Angkra was guessed (... huh that was you) to be around two thousand five hundred years old. She was probably born around 2597 B.P. Or -7120 going by the Imperial Calendar.

>_>

That, shouldn't work. Itza was founded around -10000 IC, that doesn't really give the Dwarfs much time at all to like, be born. Like, at best that gives the Zornish only a three thousand years to bicker and for the Ancestors to show up. But the Dwarfs wouldn't have been created right after Itza. Not all of the Slann had even been Spawned yet!

... It does say that she is the youngest living daughter of Thungni.
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Well, that period is the Great Chaos incursion. Time may not have been passing at the same rate everywhere.
 
DiceOfStupidity said:
Would it be possible to go further, if not now then in future? Mountain that walks size?
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The GoT reference is just ogre sized really.

As for literal walking mountain, I mean yeah I guess. You can scale it up appropriately if you want based on the measurements and corresponding adamant costs given. It may very well collapse under its own weight without proper reinforcement or literally create craters as it walked but hey, Warhammer wacky physics can reduce that.
 
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Just chiming in again in favor of skipping the Gazul commission. I really am not interested in four turns of simple armor requests. Rather just do alchemy. I only want to do the Valaya one because of the chain not because of any interest in the standing or the request itself.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Hmm... gotta admit I did miss that, still want the standing increment.
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Little late to the party on this but we'll probably see a standing increase from completing 2B.

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LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Just chiming in again in favor of skipping the Gazul commission. I really am not interested in four turns of simple armor requests. Rather just do alchemy. I only want to do the Valaya one because of the chain not because of any interest in the standing or the request itself.
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If we're dropping the Gazul commission I'm voting against doing Valaya's Runes at this point because I again only voted to take the Valaya commission and agreed to research Valaya's Runes under the expectation that we'd do the Grave Warden commission as well.

It's honestly starting to feel like I got duped at this point or at least it will if we don't end up doing the Grave Warden commission.
 
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LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Just chiming in again in favor of skipping the Gazul commission. I really am not interested in four turns of simple armor requests. Rather just do alchemy. I only want to do the Valaya one because of the chain not because of any interest in the standing or the request itself.
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Personally, I'm mostly interested by the Valaya commission because of Snorri's Clan's ties to Valaya, which is also why I want Valaya's basket runes done.
I'd like us seeing Valaya again, and possibly figure out whatever was going on with Valaya back during the Dum expedition, when this happened:
soulcake said:
Gingerly, reverently, she takes the chest offered to her and moves it to her side.

"We'll see it secured my Lady, I'll shave my plaits if we can't. If you would permit me this question though my Lady, why us and not her?" the High Priestess of Valaya asks carefully.

The dwarf across from her shakes her head, a rueful smile visible even in the dim firelight.

"She won't take it, and it isn't as if my son has enough weapons already. No, someone who will need it will take up the old girl I reckon. You need only keep her safe until that day comes. I've been laying seeds for a good long time now and a few are growing rather well already," Valaya says cryptically, the glow of the hearth behind her framing the Ancestor with a halo of warm orange light.
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This hasn't been discussed much, as we were busy at the time with killing Frunrdar and avenging grudges, but I'm curious to hear what y'all think of this now. Apparently Valaya is asking her Cult to safeguard some sort of weapon, but it's quite cryptic - who is "her" for instance? I imagine the son in question is Snorri Whitebeard, but who knows. And are we one of the seeds, so to speak? Is she referring to the challenges Her and Grungni gave us when They gifted us with the basket and gromril chain?
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
It's honestly starting to feel like I got duped at this point.
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Its genuinely very rare that those kinds of promises are fulfilled in Quests, simply because the main proponents of such compromises tend to be a vocal minority of the faction actually making those votes.

So its less you got duped, and more that theres a very real chance you saw things being promised that couldn't be realistically delivered upon.

Not that I wont be voting for the Gazul commission as well, but still, in the future when discussing votes in Quests with larger numbers of participants you should be wary of those kinds of arguments or hypothetical compromises.
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
If we're dropping the Gazul commission I'm voting against doing Valaya's Runes at this point because I again only voted to take the Valaya commission and agreed to research Valaya's Runes under the expectation that we'd do the Grave Warden commission as well.

It's honestly starting to feel like I got duped at this point or at least it will if we don't end up doing the Grave Warden commission.
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I'm still for doing the commission though I won't cry if it doesn't happen and we get onto Eltharin and alchemy sooner.

Next turn is certainly going to be interesting as we have to make the call on both the gate and and the Gazul commission both of which seem to have people on both sides.
 
Pempelune said:
This hasn't been discussed much, as we were busy at the time with killing Frunrdar and avenging grudges, but I'm curious to hear what y'all think of this now. Apparently Valaya is asking her Cult to safeguard some sort of weapon, but it's quite cryptic - who is "her" for instance? I imagine the son in question is Snorri Whitebeard, but who knows. And are we one of the seeds, so to speak? Is she referring to the challenges Her and Grungni gave us when They gifted us with the basket and gromril chain?
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The weapon would be Kradskonti, Peacegiver. I suspect they are talking about one of Valaya's daughters, probably her eldest. It could also refer to Snorri Whitebeard's wife.
 
TehChron said:
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I think it's less a vocal minority lost control in this case and more that there was already a vocal minority for not doing either option which I ignored because looking back there was a statistically significant margin of voters who didn't want to do either commission and accepting one commission appears to have alienated enough of the people who wanted to do the commissions to make it so that there's now a fighting chance for the Grave Warden commission to not get passed.

Which speaking from experience I really should have seen coming considering I spent a good portion of last year experiencing this phenomenon every turn with regards to a quest on QQ to the point where we were starting to give the MC multiple personalities.
Jreengus said:
I'm still for doing the commission though I won't cry if it doesn't happen and we get onto Eltharin and alchemy sooner.

Next turn is certainly going to be interesting as we have to make the call on both the gate and and the Gazul commission both of which seem to have people on both sides.
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I won't be overly upset or anything if the Grave Warden commission isn't accepted more slightly miffed and having learned my lesson about the character of this thread in particular.

And, ya that will be interesting but if I had to make any predictions I think it's debatable if Grave Wardens will pass leaning towards yes well the Sea Gate is unlikely to pass unless someone argues for it really well.
 
Pempelune said:
And are we one of the seeds, so to speak? Is she referring to the challenges Her and Grungni gave us when They gifted us with the basket and gromril chain?
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Probably! There's good reason to think of the entire Karaz Ankor, as a people, as a project for her. From a certain perspective it could be argued that every dwarf ever born since her rise is a seed, but in a more general sense I think its a metaphor for stuff with her particular focus.
 
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