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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Sir LagsAlot said:
I'm personally kind of wary of taking on any even decently size commission after we finish the coming two ancestor cult ones as we'd have already invested a ton of actions into commissions as a result of taking those two. I'd be fine with taking the one action commission we got not that long ago since it's so short but I kind of feel like doubling down on research and alchemy specifically after this.

Although, that line of thought is warring with the idea that the Brana are quite small in number right now meaning we can pretty much improve standing with the race as a whole pretty easily rather than just one faction so standing improvements with them now will go a lot further than they will later.
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There's also the fact that it probably won't land until after like turn 43 or so since negotiating is going to take a while and soulcake is at least somewhat merciful. Plus, I'm starting to contemplate not doing the Gazul one. I'll have some plans next turn that don't take it and some that do, and we'll see which ones win.
 
With the plans we have, taking the Gazul one is just going to be six straight turns of working on single things, and four of them not even particularly interesting single things. Either finishing 2b gives us enough gromril chain productivity to make the Valayan armor using it, or it does not. Either way, taking Gazul on top of that is not worth it compared to either making more progress on mainline Rune Metal, further work on Rune Metal B, finishing off odd places research, or starting in on Alchemy.
 
I want that ancestor cult standing so I'll still be voting to do the Gazul commission regardless. And to be honest, if I'd know people were going to get cold feet I'd have turned down the Valaya commission to do the Gazul once since we have far more opportunities to get favor and standing with the Valaya cult than we do the Gazul one.

Edit: I'll actually be kind of bitter about it if we turn down the Gazul commission at this point because I only took the Valaya commission with the expectation we'd do both. And we're planning on doing a research project that I'm not overly enthused about because we took the Valaya commission as well.
 
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I'm expecting, assuming 2b gets us Runesmithable Gromril Chain, that 3b (Master Smith + Oh Dear God Why Quality Tools Gromril Chain) will unlock the Cult of Smednir's ratings.
 
BungieONI said:
The bolded part specifically, she found a way to make something like Ancestral Aegis which basically rendered enemy magic irrelevant when attacking the fortifications of the entire hold.

It's still somewhat unclear how Snorri could even achieve something similar. Making a magic shield/ward for your entire hold is kind of a big deal, and I'd say indicates along with her specialties that she has some kind of architectural mindset with a defensive focus. It's unlikely to be defense in depth exactly, but this kind of thing tells me its on the same level.
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This makes me feel better about not doing Ravsnvake's defenses. Though, I do think that someone who is not quite as traditional would have something to contribute in an unusual defensive situation such as the canals of Ravsnvake, the possible replacement is very formidable.
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
I want that ancestor cult standing so I'll still be voting to do the Gazul commission regardless. And to be honest, if I'd know people were going to get cold feet I'd have turned down the Valaya commission to do the Gazul once since we have far more opportunities to get favor and standing with the Valaya cult than we do the Gazul one.

Edit: I'll actually be kind of bitter about it if we turn down the Gazul commission at this point because I only took the Valaya commission with the expectation we'd do both. And we're planning on doing a research project that I'm not overly enthused about because we took the Valaya commission as well.
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I totally understand. It's why I'll put a plan up that accepts the Gazul thing, cuz I still think its worth it and since its more general equipment than just armor that gives room for interesting things to happen with characters and stuff along with description.
 
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BungieONI said:
It's still somewhat unclear how Snorri could even achieve something similar.
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Whats so unclear? We were considering something similar a use for the Heart although it never had as much traction and soulcake answered a fair few questions, mostly about what limits the boundaries, and that included that Snorris work on the Forge district fell into the building rune category.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Whats so unclear? We were considering something similar a use for the Heart although it never had as much traction and soulcake answered a fair few questions, mostly about what limits the boundaries, and that included that Snorris work on the Forge district fell into the building rune category.
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Mostly what I recall is that it was mixed in terms of how we'd do something like her, and that doing the entire hold wasn't really feasible.

Snorri's work on the forge district was just slapping a bunch of runes on it, whereas the context I'm talking about with this involves something with a Master Rune which we decidedly can't spam.

E: Actually after reading again a little closer, I think we're talking about separate things.
 
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BungieONI said:
Mostly what I recall is that it was mixed in terms of how we'd do something like her, and that doing the entire hold wasn't really feasible.

Snorri's work on the forge district was just slapping a bunch of runes on it, whereas the context I'm talking about with this involves something with a Master Rune which we decidedly can't spam.
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Part of the confusion about it being feasible was that I'd interpreted defense in depth as emphasising strategic depth more than normal dwarf strategy. Since the strength of the array is proportional to the total area, I thought that meant our array would run at something like a quarter of the strength that Oggras would even if it was just as good. soulcake clarified Defense in Depth is more about making sure that everything is a deathtrap if we need it to be.
 
Snorri's got quite a bit of experience with buildings:
The walls and gates of kraka drakk, the gromril gate, the foundry district, our workshop and stotmpeak.
We wouldn't do a bad job if we took it, even if we aren't specialists in building sized runes.
 
IronFist said:
Snorri's got quite a bit of experience with buildings:
The walls and gates of kraka drakk, the gromril gate, the foundry district, our workshop and stotmpeak.
We wouldn't do a bad job if we took it, even if we aren't specialists in building sized runes.
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We wouldn't, but that fact also wasn't in question. My point is that I think Ogra is slightly edging out Snorri in building-y things.
 
I have to admit I'm partially just curious as to what the effects of Standing 10 at Kraka Ravsnvake are.

Particularly as it's currently one of the two gateways of Ulthuan to the Karaz Ankor, so the perspective the elves will have about dwarves will be strongly influenced by the prevailing views there. It seems quite possible that we'd find it easier to get a high grade of elven teacher and possibly down the line research correspondents if they base their opinion on Snorri's importance on him having Standing 10 there.

It also seem appropriate for Snorri, as the Eldest Runelord of the Far North, to help with the defences of all the holds there, not just Kraka Drakk.

One last comment. There is something that Snorri can provide that other runelords would find much harder to do. If we research Wardstones soon, we can hopefully apply anti-scrying protections not just to the Gazul commission but also to the Gates of Ravsnvake. That's something that may well prove important, as a cosmopolitan centre for trade like Ravnsake seems to be becoming would seem like a place that the Cultists of Hashut would seek to exploit, to hide amongst the hustle and bustle and use its connections to spread. If they can scry on the guards and border control, it would be much easier for them to do so.
 
@soulcake

Something that has been turning over in my head recently, and I just wanted to seek your thoughts on the matter.

How do Runelord economics work? We know from the apprentice sections that their work is more mercantile/transactional in nature.

I understand that Snorri is G I G A R I C H such that monetary concerns do not really enter into his consideration, and the level that he operates at anyway has moved away from such pedestrian things such as gold. As well as it's one less annoyance to track in terms at a meta-quest mechanics level.

But I look at the recently introduced Work Requests system, and the Cult equipment requests are like 'Do 24 years of work for us, and we'll pay you by thinking slightly better of you, and 'we'll owe you a debt so you can ask us to do stuff for you.', and the Ravsnvake Gate doesn't even have nebulous IOU chips (Favour), it just has some 'we'll like you a bit more' (Standing).

I understand that debt & repaying debt is an important part of dwarf culture, but in terms of payment it feels a little... not much?
 
Alratan said:
One last comment. There is something that Snorri can provide that other runelords would find much harder to do. If we research Wardstones soon, we can hopefully apply anti-scrying protections not just to the Gazul commission but also to the Gates of Ravsnvake. That's something that may well prove important, as a cosmopolitan centre for trade like Ravnsake seems to be becoming would seem like a place that the Cultists of Hashut would seek to exploit, to hide amongst the hustle and bustle and use its connections to spread. If they can scry on the guards and border control, it would be much easier for them to do so.
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That would require us to research wardstones next turn then do the gate the turn after, preventing us from researching chain before the commission. Then we'd be relying on Snorri deciding to add the wards himself since we can't control runes for simple requests and I'm not even sure runes on the canal gates would be that useful, it wouldn't hide anything from scrying that they couldn't learn from spying on the canal from a distance and scrying anything interesting in the docks.
 
Mr8 said:
@soulcake

Something that has been turning over in my head recently, and I just wanted to seek your thoughts on the matter.

How do Runelord economics work? We know from the apprentice sections that their work is more mercantile/transactional in nature.

I understand that Snorri is G I G A R I C H such that monetary concerns do not really enter into his consideration, and the level that he operates at anyway has moved away from such pedestrian things such as gold. As well as it's one less annoyance to track in terms at a meta-quest mechanics level.

But I look at the recently introduced Work Requests system, and the Cult equipment requests are like 'Do 24 years of work for us, and we'll pay you by thinking slightly better of you, and 'we'll owe you a debt so you can ask us to do stuff for you.', and the Ravsnvake Gate doesn't even have nebulous IOU chips (Favour), it just has some 'we'll like you a bit more' (Standing).

I understand that debt & repaying debt is an important part of dwarf culture, but in terms of payment it feels a little... not much?
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Don't worry Snorri gets paid fairly for his labor and they think better of him.
Just since wealth is abstracted its not considered in the reward.
 
Mr8 said:
understand that debt & repaying debt is an important part of dwarf culture, but in terms of payment it feels a little... not much?
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Dark as Silver said:
Don't worry Snorri gets paid fairly for his labor and they think better of him.
Just since wealth is abstracted its not considered in the reward.
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I assume Dark Silver has got it right. We most probably ARE getting paid. It is just that money is not really an object to us anymore, due to our ridiculous raw material ownerships.

Just look back to when Snorri's mother died. Snorri got a portion of his mother's wealth along with a historied axe and hammer. Well, only the axe and hammer ever got added to the Informationals. The Wealth basically just dissapeared into the vast aether where snorri keeps his money hoard.
 
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@soulcake

Regarding the Master Rune of Steel and Rune of Steel, how does the two differ anyways? Other than the obvious, that is. One is more potent, but how much potent?
 
Mr8 said:
@soulcake

Something that has been turning over in my head recently, and I just wanted to seek your thoughts on the matter.

How do Runelord economics work? We know from the apprentice sections that their work is more mercantile/transactional in nature.

I understand that Snorri is G I G A R I C H such that monetary concerns do not really enter into his consideration, and the level that he operates at anyway has moved away from such pedestrian things such as gold. As well as it's one less annoyance to track in terms at a meta-quest mechanics level.

But I look at the recently introduced Work Requests system, and the Cult equipment requests are like 'Do 24 years of work for us, and we'll pay you by thinking slightly better of you, and 'we'll owe you a debt so you can ask us to do stuff for you.', and the Ravsnvake Gate doesn't even have nebulous IOU chips (Favour), it just has some 'we'll like you a bit more' (Standing).

I understand that debt & repaying debt is an important part of dwarf culture, but in terms of payment it feels a little... not much?
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Snorri is so wealthy that any amount of money falls beneath the level of abstraction.
He's still getting paid fairly.
It's just that that amount of money is not significant to the quest.
Snorri's character sheets should say
MONEY: YES
 
I suppose technically what pops up sometimes like with Trollslayer is that Snorri can overdo a commission in a way that the originally negotiated deal is not a fair price anymore.
We keep doing this to clan Ironarm and its very funny.
 
I understand that there is a metaphorical invisitext that says 'and a big pile of gold that makes negligible difference to Snorri's networth' on most of the requests, but that sort-of leans into one the points; any sort of monetary payment is functionally meaningless, is it even there?

That leaves 2 impactful areas of reward; IOU Chips (Favour) and 'We'll like you more' (Standing). There is a third super meta nebulous reward: quester satisfaction/flexing/narrative payoff/story progression

I don't know, but it still feels a bit less. I don't know what I'm trying to get at, which is why I'm asking the question to spur some discussion. How would you motivate an eccentric billionaire into spending considerable effort away from their passion-projects (e.g. stuff like Rune Research) to do your specific project? Like, T4/5 rune &/or structural materials?
 
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