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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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I think that those are examples of some things not literally the only things that we can't change.
If you're coming here saying that this quest may not conform to the canon of the larger setting, its on you to justify that.

This is a weird argument because I also am anti Adamant Golem, and also think that we shouldn't use the decline of Deep Magic to inform choices, because metagaming and that the quest will likely die before it becomes relevant (heres hoping I'm wrong about that)
Well, then let's agree to agree and drop the argument :V
 
Hmm... If the deep magic is going to retreat after a while, I think there is a way around it. Compress Mountainsouled, understand Mountainsouled, and maybe do movement of things for more info on deep magic. Then design a rune of deep magic.

I think that gets around the problem of Deep Magic going further into the earth as we would have a rune on the gronti just for drawing it up.
 
Hmm... If the deep magic is going to retreat after a while, I think there is a way around it. Compress Mountainsouled, understand Mountainsouled, and maybe do movement of things for more info on deep magic. Then design a rune of deep magic.

I think that gets around the problem of Deep Magic going further into the earth as we would have a rune on the gronti just for drawing it up.
Or better, a runic anchor on preventing deep magic from sinking...
 
One thing I'd like about a super-gronti is that it would be the culmination of centuries of saving, research, preparation and work. That seems very in theme for a dwarven runelord. We've done very little in the way of truly long tern projects, instead being very focused on immediate returns or issues with people wanting to 'clear our plate'. This would be a nice counterpoint to that.

Hmm... theoretically? I don't see that happening without every runelord working together. Also I have the feeling we'd have to go so far into deep magic research we won't have time for anything else.

Depending on how the Waystone network is constructed, you might be able to build that in. For example, it could be like aquifers, and the Waystones could replenish the Deep Magic as a backup to flushing the energy down the Vortex.
 
@soulcake - I have few question - and it's better ask them 'in bulk' rather than ping You multiple times. Apologies if those were answered in the past. I've looked and I didn't find anything.

- How much adamant would cost to make adamant smelter out of adamant? (goal is to benefit from properties of adamant, strenghteing purification combo / increasing the yield)
- The Zorn - when I first read about Zorn started to grin due to wordbuilding. The Zorn! And those are the olden days, when all archives are still intact! It's all still there! How far back goes the history? Canonically there is almost nothing about times before Ancestors. But I'm very, very curious how does it look like in-quest. How the dwarfen realm looked and worked back then before arrival of Ancestors? Before united dwarfen realm? When it was that everything started? And how?
- Is there anything worth mentioning south of Zorn? Or in area of Zorn?
- The description of in-quest runic system is interesting - but a question: normal runesmiths can have knowledge but not willpower and skill for master runes. Is Snorri aware of any known examples of something similar on runemaster and runelord level? Knowledge present, skill and will not there?
- Quest operates on terms such as 'far north' - but what is exact definition of those geographically? What is really 'north'? What is 'far north'? What is south? How many holds are there compared to rest? Is there any 'center'? Is there 'west'?
- The 'Pillars' in character sheet signifying the age - what they refers to exactly? Date of founding of KaK? Date of formal founding of Karaz Ankor as a realm? I've seen them referred as 'Valaya Pillars', but what are those exactly? (and what calendar was used before?)
- Would it be possible to Study rune that Grimnir struck and left for Snorri during incursion? It opened the Master rune of Grimnir system-wise, but this is rune struck by Grimnir himself - it represents all aspects of an Ancestors, not only those usually associated with him. The intent and meaning rather than the form of rune. Is there anything to find if Snorri looked deeper?
- What is location for upcoming Kraka Grom geographically?
- Nightfeather was stated to serve as Elgi translator. He is now part of retinue. Does it mean anything for Snorri in terms of learning Eltharin?
- How old are Ancestors at this point? I'm not asking exactly (obviously), but in general terms? How many millenias? How many generations since their first children?
- I'm certain Snorri is curious about Yorri's past - while he won't dig into that out of respect, he would put pieces he have together if at all possible. Yorri is ancient. Does Snorri suspect what could be the event that made Yorri cut ties? Not based on anything Yorri said directly - but on history and legends of runesmiths?
- Joll... what does this dwarf do, actually? Outside being invisible voice from out nowhere? Does he actually take any commissions? (and does he remain invisible when talking with customer?)
- Rune of Brotherhood - it was nerfed, but I wonder whether it can be used on a banner to unite like-minded individuals. Not give skill, but share intent, coordination, purpose, strength of spirit. Bond of brotherhood at its best. "We are stronger together" type of approach. With 'Supreme+ Morale' of Hearth Guard, banner able to share it could be incredible for those they help. And in fight? They would be even stronger. Is it viable?
 
- Quest operates on terms such as 'far north' - but what is exact definition of those geographically? What is really 'north'? What is 'far north'? What is south? How many holds are there compared to rest? Is there any 'center'? Is there 'west'?
- The 'Pillars' in character sheet signifying the age - what they refers to exactly? Date of founding of KaK? Date of formal founding of Karaz Ankor as a realm? I've seen them referred as 'Valaya Pillars', but what are those exactly? (and what calendar was used before?)
1) Idk about Center, but if i'm correct, Karstah is at the site that becomes Karak Izor (the red ore being the copper the hold becomes known for), so the dwarf colonization should just be reaching the "west".
2) Iirc the pillars of Valaya are a structure that marked the completion of Karaz-a-Karak's construction. It was under construction before the quest, and should have happened at turn 11.
 
- How much adamant would cost to make adamant smelter out of adamant? (goal is to benefit from properties of adamant, strenghteing purification combo / increasing the yield)
Ballpark around 8-12 based on my notes. I know it got changed at some point so there may be an older, now invalid, number back in the thread. But as of my most current notes on the topic, it'd be 8 to 12.
- The Zorn - when I first read about Zorn started to grin due to wordbuilding. The Zorn! And those are the olden days, when all archives are still intact! It's all still there! How far back goes the history? Canonically there is almost nothing about times before Ancestors. But I'm very, very curious how does it look like in-quest. How the dwarfen realm looked and worked back then before arrival of Ancestors? Before united dwarfen realm? When it was that everything started? And how?
Few thousand years. Not that far back, only living Dwarfs from that time now are the Ancestors, but the knowledge that Dwarfs lived before the records, let alone writing, began is understood well enough. In terms of history, it's outside the area I developed, cuz you know, Kraka Drakk and the massive gap that is the Golden Age I have to fill in.

But the bare bones, that will remain definitively quest canon are thus:
- A period of the earliest proto clans forming and living.
- The rise of Zorn and the earliest Karaks.
- The Clan Wars as various Clans, holds and kingdoms start grudging each other in bitter blood feuds that see entire lineages wiped out and Holds erased.
- The Ancestors effectively end the Clan Wars and reshape Dwarf Culture into what you see currently.

Zorn's archives are mostly related to recording gifts or grudges from this time. Though many are scrubbed because part of the Grudge was literally erasing a Clan's history from existence sometimes.
- Is there anything worth mentioning south of Zorn? Or in area of Zorn?
Jungle, beastmen, weird animals. Don't ask about reagents, Zorn isn't finding anything new, that stuff is in the market already so to speak.
- The description of in-quest runic system is interesting - but a question: normal runesmiths can have knowledge but not willpower and skill for master runes. Is Snorri aware of any known examples of something similar on runemaster and runelord level? Knowledge present, skill and will not there?
Runemaster is a weird term. I haven't read the books that use it, but the implication seems to be it being used analogously as a Runelord. As for the term, it'd just be a Master. You having the knowledge means diddly if you can't apply it. They don't make a distinction worth a new name for it.
- Quest operates on terms such as 'far north' - but what is exact definition of those geographically? What is really 'north'? What is 'far north'? What is south? How many holds are there compared to rest? Is there any 'center'? Is there 'west'?
North of Vlag, basically Canonical Norsca.
- The 'Pillars' in character sheet signifying the age - what they refers to exactly? Date of founding of KaK? Date of formal founding of Karaz Ankor as a realm? I've seen them referred as 'Valaya Pillars', but what are those exactly? (and what calendar was used before?)
Pillars of Valaya at Karaz a Karak to signify it's finished founding. Though not the end of the construction going on in it.
- Would it be possible to Study rune that Grimnir struck and left for Snorri during incursion? It opened the Master rune of Grimnir system-wise, but this is rune struck by Grimnir himself - it represents all aspects of an Ancestors, not only those usually associated with him. The intent and meaning rather than the form of rune. Is there anything to find if Snorri looked deeper?
Nope. Just the Master Runes. Trying to divine anything deeper is not gonna happen. Besides, the intent and meaning of the individual striking the Rune mean nothing; the result and effect is still the same Rune even if you struck it feeling mad or feeling like imparting some wisdom.
- What is location for upcoming Kraka Grom geographically?
Central Norsca, not a map guy, anything more precise is liable to either be invalidated or changed as my mind goes mad.
- Nightfeather was stated to serve as Elgi translator. He is now part of retinue. Does it mean anything for Snorri in terms of learning Eltharin?
Can speak (with the help of magic because you know, vocal cords morphology), but cannot read. No opposable thumbs you see.
- How old are Ancestors at this point? I'm not asking exactly (obviously), but in general terms? How many millenias? How many generations since their first children?
Old.
- I'm certain Snorri is curious about Yorri's past - while he won't dig into that out of respect, he would put pieces he have together if at all possible. Yorri is ancient. Does Snorri suspect what could be the event that made Yorri cut ties? Not based on anything Yorri said directly - but on history and legends of runesmiths?
He knows about as much as you know. The man's thorough enough to erase his existence from effectively any extant record, he knows how to keep his mouth shut about the details as to why the way he is.
- Joll... what does this dwarf do, actually? Outside being invisible voice from out nowhere? Does he actually take any commissions? (and does he remain invisible when talking with customer?)
He's a Runesmith, and he has to eat so yes he does take commissions. Though no one's ever seen him deliver or get them. For all you know he could be living a perfectly normal life outside of the times Snorri, Fjolla, Dolgi and co see him.
- Rune of Brotherhood - it was nerfed, but I wonder whether it can be used on a banner to unite like-minded individuals. Not give skill, but share intent, coordination, purpose, strength of spirit. Bond of brotherhood at its best. "We are stronger together" type of approach. With 'Supreme+ Morale' of Hearth Guard, banner able to share it could be incredible for those they help. And in fight? They would be even stronger. Is it viable?
Try it and find out.
 
...8-12 Adamant, huh. That's not infeasible.

If we do the Understanding, we might want to invest in a greater net production using that, assuming the Understanding doesn't tell us "yeah no you put this on Adamant things go bang" or something. It'd pay off in the long run.
 
Rune of Brotherhood - it was nerfed, but I wonder whether it can be used on a banner to unite like-minded individuals. Not give skill, but share intent, coordination, purpose, strength of spirit. Bond of brotherhood at its best. "We are stronger together" type of approach. With 'Supreme+ Morale' of Hearth Guard, banner able to share it could be incredible for those they help. And in fight? They would be even stronger. Is it viable?

My personal goal is a banner with the runes of MGrimnir, Brotherhood and Fate, which will involve the Gazul research.
 
My personal goal is a banner with the runes of MGrimnir, Brotherhood and Fate, which will involve the Gazul research.
Good combination, though I'm not really certain whether MGrimnir is best if goal is to support one another. Grimnir+Fate in a banner can become effect such as 'die taking enemy with you', which is entirely in line with Grimnir. Add brotherhood and it becomes 'all brothers die to take enemy with them'. It can boost group immensly, allow it to take down most of anyone and become the legend - but they would pay in blood for it. Such combination would be great for slayers, but not necessarily for Hearth Guard.

If fate+brotherhood runes are used, it may be better to make it Valaya + Brotherhood + Fate. Runic array focused on group, with grim fate being averted, life saved, traits they embody as Heart Guard shared through bond of brotherhood.
 
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MGrimnir is best if goal is to support one another. Grimnir+Fate in a banner can become effect such as 'die taking enemy with you', which is entirely in line with Grimnir. Add brotherhood and it becomes 'all brothers die to take enemy with them'.

No, I was worried about that myself before, but quest canon treats different variants of MGrimnir differently. On a weapon, the effect is something like that - inexhaustible pursuit of enemies until they're dead, or you are. On a banner, the Rune draws on Grimnir the general, enhancing the skill of those in its effect.

The goal here is a hyper-boost of the skills and coordination ability of the Hearthwardens.
 
...Idle, terribly silly thought.

Snorri's name in Eltharin should be Annatar.

Why?

He's the Lord of Gifts.

Those are alternate names for Sauron.
 
Wait, I thought birds of prey had a kind of thumb.


Or do they have lion paws for the front feet?
Fun fact, birds need to flex to open their toes, rather than close then like mammals. So there are probably some subtle biological differences between a Brana's feet and regular eagles so that they can walk around everywhere.
 
You know, i got some inspiration.

Snorri had an idea about soundwaves breaking things

We should build a Runic Bagpipe (and earplugs)

ARMIES WILL SHATTER BEFORE OUR MAGNIFICENT DEVICE
 
You know, i got some inspiration.

Snorri had an idea about soundwaves breaking things

We should build a Runic Bagpipe (and earplugs)

ARMIES WILL SHATTER BEFORE OUR MAGNIFICENT DEVICE
That's Dwalin's domain. Not ours. He's the LOUD one. And ho boy is he LOUD.

EDIT: Also, quick bit of math: Given Adamant is about a 50% increase in Runic power, an Adamant Dragonblooded Smelter would vomit out 1.5 Bars and cost 8-12.

So it would pay for itself in 6 turns to 8 turns.
 
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EDIT: Also, quick bit of math: Given Adamant is about a 50% increase in Runic power, an Adamant Dragonblooded Smelter would vomit out 1.5 Bars and cost 8-12.
Closer to 2 or evem 3, I think. Runes inscribed with Barak Azamar / Zhargal were said to recharge faster. It's it's x2 faster, then 1.5 bars due to rues in adamant would end up as 3 bars per turn.

I think 2 is more probable though. Well, outside of possible material synergy - we would be inscribing runes of purification into purified material it is meant to produce. Current smelters have the same rune inscribed on comparatively 'tainted' medium, which I think may make it less effective.
 
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