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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:

I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Frankly, as one of the folks who generally pushes for more commissions over research since I'm not grabbed by a lot of the research, I don't think the Sea Gate is worth it especially if it means we trade a 4+ action research project for it. Which we would absolutely have to, right in the middle of the first ever period where we've actually made significant progress in cutting through our research list in the entire quest that I can remember.

A lot of people have raised complaints about not getting more research in, then in the period between this turn and turn 38 we will have to give up doing one of the bigger projects on our list.

And, frankly when the other option is Ogra Wardmaker, the matron who has been explicitly called out as doing stuff similar to Snorri with Static Runes which she has a specialty in that he does not I think its fine to let this pass when there is some one else to do it.

The first found worthy and only discovered in the tattered journals of Kemma Starlocks, was one Ogra Iggunsdottir. And more noticeably, the only candidate that was, currently, housed in a minor hold. Only two years shy of 700, Ogra had a specialty in Static Runes and an extensive history of working on learning the secrets of the Ancestor Runes. The only reason her home of Karak Krum survived was due to a massive Runic array similar to the one on your banner that she had made. Trading its mobility to turn the Karaks surface defences into an unassailable fortification for enemy mages. Forcing a more traditional siege that Krum's defenders would more easily handle. Speaking of tradition, the woman was about as conservative as you got in the North. You frankly didn't expect Kemma to have picked her, but you suppose that she wasn't one to let a difference of ideals stop her choices.


Oh, you mean colored/tiered Epic, I misunderstood. Anyways, it's a little late for that. Wyrm's Hide, which is both the king's and the one in the Set, is "only" Epic.

If making it Legendary is most important, keep in mind it's already benefitting from being made with Zharrgal and Barak Azamar. If you want to clinch it just use a bar of Adamant as it's composite material (I'm honestly a little surprised no one wanted to. . Between all that and the reagents, well...we've made Legendary items from less.
Might want to go back and read the plan for it in a little more detail then.

E: Rik Hunken's design has already been specified to contain Adamant.
 
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Oh, you mean colored/tiered Epic, I misunderstood. Anyways, it's a little late for that. Wyrm's Hide, which is both the king's and the one in the Set, is "only" Epic.

If making it Legendary is most important, keep in mind it's already benefitting from being made with Zharrgal and Barak Azamar. If you want to clinch it just use a bar of Adamant as it's composite material (I'm honestly a little surprised no one wanted to. . Between all that and the reagents, well...we've made Legendary items from less.
It is using Adamant. Moreover there is no way this thing won't be T4, it's using a Master Rune, it has a Runic Combo, uses Adamant, has extra Reagents boosting its power, and we're using Barak Azamar and Zharrgal to craft it.

With all that even just a single action would make it a T4 easily.
 
On another topic I am genuinely surprised we didn't lose any Standing with Ogra or Brynna and other more conservative Runelords we know about over what we did with the Brana. I wasn't sure it would happen, but there was an expectation there that it could.

This might be because the news hasn't spread far, but it has gotten into Kraka Drakk itself proper and there's been no reaction from Brynna. And that's... nice. Gives me hope for the future honestly that we'll be able to navigate the precedent this sets and that the overall nature of the Hearth Guard will blunt most issues. When the murderkitties want to be helpful and are surrounded by a bunch of other helpful folks, I think things will generally go okay.

Not just Brynna herself, or the Far North as a whole, but that it will turn out alright for the entire Karaz Ankor given enough time and effort.

E: Also! Snorri's Brana names have been added to his titles!

Titles:
Runelord of Kraka Drakk, The Gift Giver, The Greed Slayer, The Earth Mover, Shadowkiller, Hold Warder, Eldest Runelord of the North, Grimunbakazi a Dum (Unyielding Breaker of Darkness), Azrilgromthi a Vengryn (Silver Ancestor of Vengeance), He Who Gives Gifts and Quiets the Winds, Elder Windstiller
 
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Not just Brynna herself, or the Far North as a whole, but that it will turn out alright for the entire Karaz Ankor given enough time and effort.
I see the Brana as being something of a proof of concept. Beings that don't live like Dawi, beings that don't think or act like Dawi should, but at the same time find their niche in and around dwarven society. It offers a hope that we can put together similar relationships with elgi, and more generally not burying the Karaz Ankor into mountains, but instead working together to deal with orks, chaos, undead, and anything else that is out there skittering in the night, and give it a good hard axing.
 
-[] Understand The Master Rune of Purification: Understand our own, personally invented rune. How far do we have to go? 1 Action.
My understanding is that this action would be about translating the master rune from a Talismanic rune to some other type. What type would we be translating it to?
 
My understanding is that this action would be about translating the master rune from a Talismanic rune to some other type. What type would we be translating it to?
I think, don't quote me on this lol it's just speculation, the way it works is that we vote to understand it and then when that is done it generates a vote to put it into another category in the turn results.

Personally I think it'd fit best as either a Banner or Weapon version, but I don't have a strong preference for either of those two.
 
On another topic I am genuinely surprised we didn't lose any Standing with Ogra or Brynna and other more conservative Runelords we know about over what we did with the Brana. I wasn't sure it would happen, but there was an expectation there that it could.

This might be because the news hasn't spread far, but it has gotten into Kraka Drakk itself proper and there's been no reaction from Brynna. And that's... nice. Gives me hope for the future honestly that we'll be able to navigate the precedent this sets and that the overall nature of the Hearth Guard will blunt most issues. When the murderkitties want to be helpful and are surrounded by a bunch of other helpful folks, I think things will generally go okay.

Not just Brynna herself, or the Far North as a whole, but that it will turn out alright for the entire Karaz Ankor given enough time and effort.
Justification
-2/3rds died for us in battle
-Friends for about 1/3rd of Kraka Drakks existence
- Useful, intelligent, powerful, magical.
-Provide scouting and heavy mid air cavalry support.
-Will allow Dawi to ride when personal friendship has been established.
-Smites the Dawi's enemies with thunder!
-New Gold wind means Material transmutation option for crafting!
- Thungni vetted, approved and even GIFTED WITH ANCESTOR WORK.
-Thungi Acknowledging that they have thoughts worth respecting.

Seriously. Acceptance is only a matter of time. Perhaps they aren't citizens in the traditional sense, but they have proven and aquitted themselves without reproach and have been honored for it.

Now maybe we should head off future issues like legal disputes and the right to hold property, but we'd have to go to the High king for that.

Future vote([ ] Brana Citizens???)
 
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I think, don't quote me on this lol it's just speculation, the way it works is that we vote to understand it and then when that is done it generates a vote to put it into another category in the turn results.

Personally I think it'd fit best as either a Banner or Weapon version, but I don't have a strong preference for either of those two.
This might be the correct reading of what soulcake said. I've compiled all of soulcake's comments about Understanding Master Runes, but the first one is what is relevant. Specifically the orange underlined part is where I think that belief comes from. I am not sure if that was a more general statement or if we want 2 different new variants we have to take Understand twice. I could see that being the case

Master Runes are the epitome of Runework. Understanding the how or why of a master rune's function gives insight into a variety of effects and abilities. Most importantly, understanding a master rune can allow you to create a variant that will work on another type of equipment, with the same or similar effects. For instance, Master Yorri did the work for you with the Master Rune of Waking/Animation, but otherwise it would have just been an engineering Rune used to animate Rune Golems and anything that fell under the category of a War Machine by whatever weird definitions Runes use. Yorri gave you a permutation of that master rune, he personally discovered after who knows how long worth of research, for the Talismanic category. Greatly expanding its utility. Doors that can close whenever or they want, things like that. It won't make a hammer float in the air to let it strike something, but if that hammer was on a lever, the rune would let the lever move on its own. Of course, the rune still requires an input of some sort otherwise the hammer sits there doing nothing.

Uh think of a mechanism that would require energy to function, the Rune of animation would sort of fill in for that. Turning pullies, moving joints, it does that sort of stuff.

Before you ask, it isn't enough to jumpstart an industrial revolution. The rune is definitely potent, but for a host of reasons that sort of upheaval is uh...not in the cards for you.
You'd have to do the "Understand A Master Rune" research option. Though as the maker of the rune you'd get a bonus to it.
Research doesn't consume mats, but what it rewards you with can, and in this case will, need resources to make.

No comment on doing voidstone research beforehand
Snorri knows for sure that an Ancestor Rune or Banner Rune make it stronger, no clue on whether the effect would linger once the water left the area the Rune affects. Snorri at least knows its possible that a Rune could impart a permanent effect like that due to his Master Rune of Purification and its ability to transmute Gromril to Adamant. But that's an avenue of research he has no idea where to begin with save examining the Rune in question and understanding it.
Yes.

It requires a great deal of work and an absolute, and I mean absolute, understanding of the Rune in question.

But yes.

Theoretically.
Contrary to popular belief the action labelled Understanding a Master Rune actually does more to help understand a Rune than an action that has, at best, a vague connection based on half-understood principles. Also I'm not sure what's being implied by the point of it not being understandable, why wouldn't you be able to do the "Understand" action with the Rune you literally made. Runelords have gone a long time without being able to see or understand magic and get by just fine.

EDIT: to be clear, you can actually do Understand a Master Rune on the Master Rune of Purification, which is the main point I'm refuting here. (If pucflek meant to imply that). Durin's Consternation is an acknowledgement of the "fact" that the Dwarfs were not able to understand the underlying mechanics behind what exactly made their Runes work the way they did.
 
My own view is that I would like to progress on places of the Odd along with taking care of the rest. We have a standing bonus that sometimes procs progress on any places of the odd research and right now we have nothing for that to proc on. So we should probably grab the 9th location this turn when we can spare the action. Also the places of the odd mats have been good at reducing other research as well.
 
[X] Plan A Gift from the Past, a Gift for the Future
-[X] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. You formed these Hearthguard to combat all the ills that befall the dwarfen people. Send them out, render aid, earn goodwill and spread the word of your retainers and their stated mission beyond the borders of Kraka Drakk.
- [X] Valayan Crisis: Gain 50 Favour +? with the Cult of Valaya. There have been a string of issues passing through the rumour mills. The local Clergy of Valaya find themselves on the lookout for key medicinal herbs needed in the brewing of their healing ales. Parties are being sent out, but there are simply not enough guards to defend every caravan adequately in your opinion. Send your retainers, help the Valayans help others and let everyone benefit.
-[X] Suneater's Brain: [Cost: 4 actions] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. What could you do with this cursed thing? While untainted, you can only shudder at the atrocities it has seen and ordered. Fitting then that it's ultimate will be aiding the very people he saw to destroy. 3 actions
-[X] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 36. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional structural materials and any aesthetic changes here. Gain 100 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. Rik Hunken waits patiently within your mind's eye, ready to be wrought into existence. 1 Action
- [X] Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact (Stonehorn's Horn), Rune of Grimnir (Grimnirzan)



[X] Plan Playin' with Raven
- [X] [Simple] Gate to the Sea: [Cost: 5 actions] Due end of Turn 38. Productivity like No Other will proc. Gain 1 Standing with Kraka Ravsnvake. Snorri thinks another patron might be found by the end of turn 37. Knowing of your predilection and obsessive meticulous mind for incredibly robust and powerful defensive structures, King Villi has asked if you would be willing to lend your expertise and Runic knowledge for when his Hold builds the great gates that will lie between the Varn Wyrren and the Canal from the Dumaraz. 3 actions
- [X] Accept
-[X] Dreng Them: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Additional actions add bonus modifier. The Hearth Guard will go out and slay [Write-in] monster. Gain mats, reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. While your Hearth Guard were also meant to clear all the ills that assailed dwarfkind, you must admit there are many a mundane foe to slay. Send these brave dawi out on a quest to slay beasties on your behalf, earn glory and give you materials to make ever more wonders.
- [X] Dumaraz: Gain Random Monster Mats, 10 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. In preparation for King Sindri's grand ambition, he has called for a great culling of the beasts that would lurk and prey on the work crews tasked with rendering the Dumaraz more easily navigable. The King has even offered any would-be hunters the chance to lay claim to the beasts killed in their work.
-[X] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 36. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional structural materials and any aesthetic changes here. Gain 100 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. Rik Hunken waits patiently within your mind's eye, ready to be wrought into existence. 1 Action
- [X] Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact (Stonehorn's Horn), Rune of Grimnir (Grimnirzan)




[X] Plan Two Odd Places, One Odd Step
-[X] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. You formed these Hearthguard to combat all the ills that befall the dwarfen people. Send them out, render aid, earn goodwill and spread the word of your retainers and their stated mission beyond the borders of Kraka Drakk.
- [X] Valayan Crisis: Gain 50 Favour +? with the Cult of Valaya. There have been a string of issues passing through the rumour mills. The local Clergy of Valaya find themselves on the lookout for key medicinal herbs needed in the brewing of their healing ales. Parties are being sent out, but there are simply not enough guards to defend every caravan adequately in your opinion. Send your retainers, help the Valayans help others and let everyone benefit.
-[X] Odd Places 9/10: [Cost: 1 action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness. Look on Master Yorri's map and try and discover one of his marked locations. The locations will certainly be odd, but whether they'll be useful will remain to be seen. 2 Actions
-[X] Dronril, Dronwut: [Cost (6 -5) =1 actions] Journeyman of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc. The amber that you have come to call Dronril, and the wood, creatively named Dronwut, are intrinsically tied to each other, and learning more about one is sure to teach you something about the other. 1 Action
-[X] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 36. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional structural materials and any aesthetic changes here. Gain 100 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. Rik Hunken waits patiently within your mind's eye, ready to be wrought into existence. 1 Action
- [X] Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact (Stonehorn's Horn), Rune of Grimnir (Grimnirzan)




[X] Plan Odd Things, Many Possibilities
-[X] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. You formed these Hearthguard to combat all the ills that befall the dwarfen people. Send them out, render aid, earn goodwill and spread the word of your retainers and their stated mission beyond the borders of Kraka Drakk.
- [X] Valayan Crisis: Gain 50 Favour +? with the Cult of Valaya. There have been a string of issues passing through the rumour mills. The local Clergy of Valaya find themselves on the lookout for key medicinal herbs needed in the brewing of their healing ales. Parties are being sent out, but there are simply not enough guards to defend every caravan adequately in your opinion. Send your retainers, help the Valayans help others and let everyone benefit.
-[X] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 36. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional structural materials and any aesthetic changes here. Gain 100 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. Rik Hunken waits patiently within your mind's eye, ready to be wrought into existence. 1 Action
- [X] Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact (Stonehorn's Horn), Rune of Grimnir (Grimnirzan)
-[X] Dronril, Dronwut: [Cost (6 -5) =1 actions] Journeyman of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc. The amber that you have come to call Dronril, and the wood, creatively named Dronwut, are intrinsically tied to each other, and learning more about one is sure to teach you something about the other. 1 Action
-[X] Firebird's Feather [Cost: 2 actions] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. You've got a feather! Its an odd little piece of deep red flaming plumage that emanates a faint heat and sometimes combusts into flames that do no lasting damage to it. Transported at great expense, barely a dent in your coffers though, and with a few notes and tales about the animal in question that it came from. A simple enough task to figure out what this thing will do. There's a large body of work regarding the firebirds of the north already, and you can use that as a good starting point in your own research. 2 Actions


[X] Plan A Good Gift and Some Understanding
[X] Plan: Journeyman of the Odd v2
 
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Not really a fan of only putting one action into the Wedding Gift.

[X] Plan A Good Gift and Some Understanding
[X] Plan A Good Gift and Odd Places
 
[X] Plan Playin' with Raven
- [X] [Simple] Gate to the Sea: [Cost: 5 actions] Due end of Turn 38. Productivity like No Other will proc. Gain 1 Standing with Kraka Ravsnvake. Snorri thinks another patron might be found by the end of turn 37. Knowing of your predilection and obsessive meticulous mind for incredibly robust and powerful defensive structures, King Villi has asked if you would be willing to lend your expertise and Runic knowledge for when his Hold builds the great gates that will lie between the Varn Wyrren and the Canal from the Dumaraz. 3 actions
- [X] Accept
-[X] Dreng Them: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Additional actions add bonus modifier. The Hearth Guard will go out and slay [Write-in] monster. Gain mats, reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. While your Hearth Guard were also meant to clear all the ills that assailed dwarfkind, you must admit there are many a mundane foe to slay. Send these brave dawi out on a quest to slay beasties on your behalf, earn glory and give you materials to make ever more wonders.
- [X] Dumaraz: Gain Random Monster Mats, 10 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. In preparation for King Sindri's grand ambition, he has called for a great culling of the beasts that would lurk and prey on the work crews tasked with rendering the Dumaraz more easily navigable. The King has even offered any would-be hunters the chance to lay claim to the beasts killed in their work.
-[X] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 36. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional structural materials and any aesthetic changes here. Gain 100 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. Rik Hunken waits patiently within your mind's eye, ready to be wrought into existence. 1 Action, 1 Bar of Adamant
- [X] Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact (Stonehorn's Horn), Rune of Grimnir (Grimnirzan)
[X] ORDER: White Lion Corpse
 
[X] Plan A Good Gift and Some Understanding
[X] Plan Wedding Gifts and Strange Feathers

I don't have to vote for a plan after the plan was posted right?
 
[X] Plan Wedding Gifts and Strange Feathers
-[X] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. 1 Retainer Action.
--[X] Valayan Crisis: Gain 50 Favour +? with the Cult of Valaya. There have been a string of issues passing through the rumour mills. The local Clergy of Valaya find themselves on the lookout for key medicinal herbs needed in the brewing of their healing ales. Parties are being sent out, but there are simply not enough guards to defend every caravan adequately in your opinion. Send your retainers, help the Valayans help others and let everyone benefit.
-[x] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 36. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional structural materials and any aesthetic changes here. Gain 100 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. Rik Hunken waits patiently within your mind's eye, ready to be wrought into existence. 2 Actions.
--[X] Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact (Stonehorn's Horn), Rune of Grimnir (Grimnirzan).
-[X] Firebird's Feather [Cost: 2 actions] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. You've got a feather! Its an odd little piece of deep red flaming plumage that emanates a faint heat and sometimes combusts into flames that do no lasting damage to it. Transported at great expense, barely a dent in your coffers though, and with a few notes and tales about the animal in question that it came from. A simple enough task to figure out what this thing will do. There's a large body of work regarding the firebirds of the north already, and you can use that as a good starting point in your own research. 2 Actions.

So with this plan the idea is to crank out Gimli's super belt in two actions, both plans do that in fact, but this plan goes out to clear the Firebird Feathers to see what stuff they do and if there's any useful regeneration-y bits. I like @Jreengus's idea of grabbing the Almanacs now but I don't think we can unless we put an action into it so I'm leaving that off.

[X] Plan A Good Gift and Some Understanding
-[X] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. 1 Retainer Action.
--[X] Valayan Crisis: Gain 50 Favour +? with the Cult of Valaya. There have been a string of issues passing through the rumour mills. The local Clergy of Valaya find themselves on the lookout for key medicinal herbs needed in the brewing of their healing ales. Parties are being sent out, but there are simply not enough guards to defend every caravan adequately in your opinion. Send your retainers, help the Valayans help others and let everyone benefit.
-[X] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 36. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional structural materials and any aesthetic changes here. Gain 100 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. Rik Hunken waits patiently within your mind's eye, ready to be wrought into existence. 2 Actions.
--[x] Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact (Stonehorn's Horn), Rune of Grimnir (Grimnirzan).
-[X] Dronril, Dronwut: [Cost (6 -5) =1 actions] Journeyman of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc. The amber that you have come to call Dronril, and the wood, creatively named Dronwut, are intrinsically tied to each other, and learning more about one is sure to teach you something about the other. 1 Action.
-[X] Understand The Master Rune of Purification: Understand our own, personally invented rune. How far do we have to go? 1 Action.

This plan is different from the above in that it bonks Dronril over the head since we're using it decoratively in Rik Hunken and it's also useful for Skundaz and other Grungni related stuffs. Then it grabs the Master Rune of Purification in order to get to grips with how long that thing is going to take, and to give us some neat and nifty weird esoteric stuff to read in the doot.


[X] Plan A Good Gift and Some Understanding
[X] Plan Wedding Gifts and Strange Feathers

I don't have to vote for a plan after the plan was posted right?
Nope! Only thing to keep in mind is that if you copy paste the whole plan, the tally will treat your vote as different from the original creator's if the creator ends up editing the plan.
 
I'm on mobile, so I'm hoping this vote is for the plan with 1 on Purification Understanding, 1 on Dronril, and 2 on Rik Hunden. If not, I'll edit it later. Can't properly copy paste on this thing.

And it is, good!

[x] Plan A Good Gift and Some Understanding
 
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