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On Thread Etiquette:

I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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I'm not married to the Retinue options save for Playin' with Raven, but past experience says the thread would want the Valayan option, so...

[] Plan A Gift from the Past, a Gift for the Future
-[ ] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. You formed these Hearthguard to combat all the ills that befall the dwarfen people. Send them out, render aid, earn goodwill and spread the word of your retainers and their stated mission beyond the borders of Kraka Drakk.
- [ ] Valayan Crisis: Gain 50 Favour +? with the Cult of Valaya. There have been a string of issues passing through the rumour mills. The local Clergy of Valaya find themselves on the lookout for key medicinal herbs needed in the brewing of their healing ales. Parties are being sent out, but there are simply not enough guards to defend every caravan adequately in your opinion. Send your retainers, help the Valayans help others and let everyone benefit.
-[ ] Suneater's Brain: [Cost: 4 actions] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. What could you do with this cursed thing? While untainted, you can only shudder at the atrocities it has seen and ordered. Fitting then that it's ultimate will be aiding the very people he saw to destroy. 3 actions
-[ ] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 36. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional structural materials and any aesthetic changes here. Gain 100 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. Rik Hunken waits patiently within your mind's eye, ready to be wrought into existence. 1 Action, 1 Bar of Adamant
- [X] Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact (Stonehorn's Horn), Rune of Grimnir (Grimnirzan)

[] Plan Playin' with Raven
- [ ] [Simple] Gate to the Sea: [Cost: 5 actions] Due end of Turn 38. Productivity like No Other will proc. Gain 1 Standing with Kraka Ravsnvake. Snorri thinks another patron might be found by the end of turn 37. Knowing of your predilection and obsessive meticulous mind for incredibly robust and powerful defensive structures, King Villi has asked if you would be willing to lend your expertise and Runic knowledge for when his Hold builds the great gates that will lie between the Varn Wyrren and the Canal from the Dumaraz. 3 actions
- [ ] Accept
-[ ] Dreng Them: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Additional actions add bonus modifier. The Hearth Guard will go out and slay [Write-in] monster. Gain mats, reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. While your Hearth Guard were also meant to clear all the ills that assailed dwarfkind, you must admit there are many a mundane foe to slay. Send these brave dawi out on a quest to slay beasties on your behalf, earn glory and give you materials to make ever more wonders.
- [ ] Dumaraz: Gain Random Monster Mats, 10 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. In preparation for King Sindri's grand ambition, he has called for a great culling of the beasts that would lurk and prey on the work crews tasked with rendering the Dumaraz more easily navigable. The King has even offered any would-be hunters the chance to lay claim to the beasts killed in their work.
-[ ] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 36. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional structural materials and any aesthetic changes here. Gain 100 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. Rik Hunken waits patiently within your mind's eye, ready to be wrought into existence. 1 Action, 1 Bar of Adamant
- [X] Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact (Stonehorn's Horn), Rune of Grimnir (Grimnirzan)

[] Plan Two Odd Places, One Odd Step
-[ ] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. You formed these Hearthguard to combat all the ills that befall the dwarfen people. Send them out, render aid, earn goodwill and spread the word of your retainers and their stated mission beyond the borders of Kraka Drakk.
- [ ] Valayan Crisis: Gain 50 Favour +? with the Cult of Valaya. There have been a string of issues passing through the rumour mills. The local Clergy of Valaya find themselves on the lookout for key medicinal herbs needed in the brewing of their healing ales. Parties are being sent out, but there are simply not enough guards to defend every caravan adequately in your opinion. Send your retainers, help the Valayans help others and let everyone benefit.
-[ ] Odd Places 9/10: [Cost: 1 action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness. Look on Master Yorri's map and try and discover one of his marked locations. The locations will certainly be odd, but whether they'll be useful will remain to be seen. 2 Actions
-[ ] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 36. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional structural materials and any aesthetic changes here. Gain 100 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. Rik Hunken waits patiently within your mind's eye, ready to be wrought into existence. 1 Action, 1 bar of Adamant
- [X] Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact (Stonehorn's Horn), Rune of Grimnir (Grimnirzan)


[] Plan Odd Things, Many Possibilities
-[ ] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. You formed these Hearthguard to combat all the ills that befall the dwarfen people. Send them out, render aid, earn goodwill and spread the word of your retainers and their stated mission beyond the borders of Kraka Drakk.
- [ ] Valayan Crisis: Gain 50 Favour +? with the Cult of Valaya. There have been a string of issues passing through the rumour mills. The local Clergy of Valaya find themselves on the lookout for key medicinal herbs needed in the brewing of their healing ales. Parties are being sent out, but there are simply not enough guards to defend every caravan adequately in your opinion. Send your retainers, help the Valayans help others and let everyone benefit.
-[ ] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 36. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional structural materials and any aesthetic changes here. Gain 100 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. Rik Hunken waits patiently within your mind's eye, ready to be wrought into existence. 1 Action, 1 bar of Adamant
- [X] Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact (Stonehorn's Horn), Rune of Grimnir (Grimnirzan)
-[ ] Dronril, Dronwut: [Cost (6 -5) =1 actions] Journeyman of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc. The amber that you have come to call Dronril, and the wood, creatively named Dronwut, are intrinsically tied to each other, and learning more about one is sure to teach you something about the other. 1 Action
-[ ] Firebird's Feather [Cost: 2 actions] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. You've got a feather! Its an odd little piece of deep red flaming plumage that emanates a faint heat and sometimes combusts into flames that do no lasting damage to it. Transported at great expense, barely a dent in your coffers though, and with a few notes and tales about the animal in question that it came from. A simple enough task to figure out what this thing will do. There's a large body of work regarding the firebirds of the north already, and you can use that as a good starting point in your own research. 2 Actions

If anything available is going to provide another bonus to the Rune Metal, it's Dronril and/or Dronwut. Or research progress in general.
 
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.. Well, although it would not be the most action-efficient, what do you think of spending 2 actions on Understanding the Master Rune of Purification and 1 Action on studying the Adamant Maker Combo? (Effectively a Compress Combo action, targeted at the Adamant Maker combo.)

Since both lines of research deal with MPurification and Adamant, and since both relate to the Rune Metal research chain, it could be an interesting line of research to take, no?

Though, admittedly, it's much more tempting to put 2 Actions into either MPurification or Adamant Maker. Since Soul of the Earth would then proc on it. On the other hand, putting in an action into both of those would mean finally, finally, revealing exactly how long it would take to finish it.
I don't particularly see the point right now in doing both, or putting more than one action in it. Not like its gonna finish it unless we get really surprised, so might as well put the action on something else. I'm more interested in doing exploratory activities with them and definitely don't want to touch Adamant Maker right now. I don't want *another* master rune of our invention that just sits on the back burner for 20 odd turns.
 
[] Plan Scienceing the Material
-[] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. 1 Retainer Action.
--[] Valayan Crisis: Gain 50 Favour +? with the Cult of Valaya. There have been a string of issues passing through the rumour mills. The local Clergy of Valaya find themselves on the lookout for key medicinal herbs needed in the brewing of their healing ales. Parties are being sent out, but there are simply not enough guards to defend every caravan adequately in your opinion. Send your retainers, help the Valayans help others and let everyone benefit.
-[] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 36. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional structural materials and any aesthetic changes here. Gain 100 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. Rik Hunken waits patiently within your mind's eye, ready to be wrought into existence. 1 Action.
--[] Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact (Stonehorn's Horn), Rune of Grimnir (Grimnirzan).
-[] Firebird's Feather [Cost: 2 actions] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. You've got a feather! Its an odd little piece of deep red flaming plumage that emanates a faint heat and sometimes combusts into flames that do no lasting damage to it. Transported at great expense, barely a dent in your coffers though, and with a few notes and tales about the animal in question that it came from. A simple enough task to figure out what this thing will do. There's a large body of work regarding the firebirds of the north already, and you can use that as a good starting point in your own research. 2 Actions.
-[] Dronril, Dronwut: [Cost (6 -5) =1 actions] Journeyman of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc. The amber that you have come to call Dronril, and the wood, creatively named Dronwut, are intrinsically tied to each other, and learning more about one is sure to teach you something about the other. 1 Action.

For this one, I am really thinking that one or both of the materials science will play into either Valaya's Runes or Rune Metal 2b, which will hopefully free up some actions going forward. Overkilling the belt is just not worth it compared to the potential to free up actions over the next few turns.
 
I don't want to get into a huge thing about this, but Snorri does plenty of "I made it in a short period of time" limbs as part of his general re-limbing policy for his hold. If those aren't shoddy work then a temporary set for Orra wouldn't have been shoddy work.

Sometimes the timescale of these decade turns gets to me. I know dwarves live longer than humans, but they don't live so long that a decade isn't still a long time to them. It's more like maybe 2 to 2 1/2 years would be for us. Not so long that you'd freak out over it, but still a significant portion of your life.
Those things cannaturally come out when Forged Limbs become normalized (or maybe even done through total mechanical and npn runic means). As it is now, Snorri cannot afford to make any limbs which aren't personalized and permanent at the same time.
 
I'm not married to the idea of two actions on the belt. Any suggestions for my 4th action then?
Well, based on that I'd say either finish Dronril and Dronwut, or put it on Odd Places to finish that up with two actions in total.


Alright, I'll give you props on this plan because ignoring a dead line for a royal wedding gift takes serious balls.
Well, you can relax, I just forgot to include the Wedding Gift. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
Hm, if we get lucky we could accidentally cut down action requirements for either 2B of Valaya's Runes at some point before we take them meaning if we did 1 Dronril action to finish that up and used the other action on Firebird Feathers we'd have the potential to finish both before we get to the commissions doing it the other way around could also work where you finish Firebird Feathers and if a spare action pops up finish Dronril.
 
[] Plan A Good Gift and Some Understanding

This is my preffered plan. 2 actions is about right for the King's stuff and it knocks out the dronril and starts purification which is nice.
 
For this one, I am really thinking that one or both of the materials science will play into either Valaya's Runes or Rune Metal 2b, which will hopefully free up some actions going forward. Overkilling the belt is just not worth it compared to the potential to free up actions over the next few turns.
This doesn't save up actions over the coming turns in the least. Maybe one. One, Dronwut was never mentioned that it would have a connection with gromril, and even if it does we'll still have to put 4 actions to get all 6 progress. I doubt that the Firebird feathers will lessen the cost for Valaya's Runes, but even if it does it will probably be only by one or two. In either scenario we'll still only gain one action.

(*Updated*)[ ] The Rune Metal Pt. 2b: [Cost: (14 -7) =7 actions] Journeyman of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc. You can and now have done it, made Gromril chain and chainmaille. It required extremely unique circumstances and felt more a fluke than true success to you. No, you will not be satisfied unless you can create something any hypothetical Runesmith could do. Beyond that? Who knows?
- [ ] Brotherhood Expertise: [Cost 10 Favour from Brotherhood of Dron] Gain 1 progress. Can be taken multiple times and without actions. Call upon the expertise of the Brotherhood to aid in your research.

[ ] Understand Valaya's Runes: [Cost: (12 -6) =6 actions] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. On the basket that bears her Master Rune, Valaya or perhaps some other Runesmith put down two other Runes. You can make a guess as to their purpose, but aren't too sure. One bears a similarity to the Rune of Load-bearing, the other the Rune of Healing.

Hm, if we get lucky we could accidentally cut down action requirements for either 2B of Valaya's Runes at some point before we take them meaning if we did 1 Dronril action to finish that up and used the other action on Firebird Feathers we'd have the potential to finish both before we get to the commissions.
We can do that without making a mere one action item that will be used by the Royal Line of Kraka Drakk until the literal world is broken.
 
Hm, if we get lucky we could accidentally cut down action requirements for either 2B of Valaya's Runes at some point before we take them meaning if we did 1 Dronril action to finish that up and used the other action on Firebird Feathers we'd have the potential to finish both before we get to the commissions doing it the other way around could also work where you finish Firebird Feathers and if a spare action pops up finish Dronril.
Out of the two Dronril is probably most likely to add onto 2B and Bird Feathers onto Valaya's Runes. But between the two of them I think Bird Feathers is the most likely to give no reductions at all, its more useful as reagent poking for Master Runes.

If they do, which is very up in the air.
 
I don't want to put another epic level piece of wargear on the future king's regalia if I can help it after all.
That seems conflicting in this context.

So something I'm going to point out.

Consistency. We have consistently put in more than the minimum required effort to do the deed on the royal stuff, which is why it consistently comes out as good quality. The fact that its a bit of extra prose is not all there is as there are mechanical and narrative benefits for doing so. You know this, and its frustrating to see it painted as such.

This is something that Gimli will use until he dies, and every King after him, and is the piece that will complete our first Set and it will be a Set that carries on for thousands of years.

We don't have untranslated tomes on the Winds with which to use Eltharin and we won't be able to get the Almanacs until after turn 40 more than likely. So we would be mostly idle in terms of actually using Eltharin beyond communicating with our tutor for however long they remain.
I realize that, and I don't want to get heated over it, but most of those were in periods of dangerous necessity, or first-time events of some kind making them special. At this point another gift, another wedding gift at that, isn't really special.
 
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Well, based on that I'd say either finish Dronril and Dronwut, or put it on Odd Places to finish that up with two actions in total.
Updated plans thn

[ ] Plan: Journeyman of the Odd v1
-[ ] Odd Places 9/10: [Cost: 1 action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness. 1 action
-[ ] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. 1 retainer action
--[ ] Valayan Crisis: Gain 50 Favour +? with the Cult of Valaya.
-[ ] Eltharin?: [Cost: 5 actions, 20 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. Gain chance at an Elf teacher and proficient understanding of Eltharin. 1 Action
--[ ] Looking for a Native: [Cost: 30 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Gain Elf teacher and -fluent understanding of Eltharin.
-[ ] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 36. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional structural materials and any aesthetic changes here. Gain 100 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. 2 actions
--[ ] Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact (Stonehorn's Horn), Rune of Grimnir (Grimnirzan)

[ ] Plan: Journeyman of the Odd v2
-[ ] Odd Places 9/10: [Cost: 1 action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness. 1 action
-[ ] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. 1 retainer action
--[ ] Valayan Crisis: Gain 50 Favour +? with the Cult of Valaya.
-[ ] Eltharin?: [Cost: 5 actions, 20 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. Gain chance at an Elf teacher and proficient understanding of Eltharin. 1 Action
--[ ] Looking for a Native: [Cost: 30 Favour from Kraka Ravnsvake] Gain Elf teacher and -fluent understanding of Eltharin.
-[ ] [Difficult] A Princely Wedding Gift Pt. 2: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of Turn 36. If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional structural materials and any aesthetic changes here. Gain 100 Favour with Kraka Ravnsvake. 1 action
--[ ] Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact (Stonehorn's Horn), Rune of Grimnir (Grimnirzan)
-[ ] Dronril, Dronwut: [Cost (6 -5) =1 actions] Journeyman of the Odd and Soul of the Earth will proc. 1 action
 
We can do that without making a mere one action item that will be used by the Royal Line of Kraka Drakk until the literal world is broken.
Huh? I can't tell if you're agreeing with my post or not because it was made with the assumption that we'd spend two actions on the royal commission.
Out of the two Dronril is probably most likely to add onto 2B and Bird Feathers onto Valaya's Runes. But between the two of them I think Bird Feathers is the most likely to give no reductions at all, its more useful as reagent poking for Master Runes.

If they do, which is very up in the air.
Agreed on the Dronril part and after doing the math for both I can confirm that if either action had its cost reduced by one we'd be able to do finish up both Firebird Feathers and Dronril.
That seems conflicting in this context.
Hm? How is what I said conflicting? All I said is that I don't want to put an epic level piece of gear on the future king because I consider that to be too low.
 
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That seems conflicting in this context.


I realize that, and I don't want to get heated over it, but most of those were times of dangerous necessity, or first-time events of some kind making them special. At this point another gift, another wedding gift at that, isn't really special.
...

Hmmm.

First Set we've personally succeeded in devising, first item we will make which will complete a Set, the item that will basically complete the King of Kraka Drakk's panoply, the item that will protect the life of a prince for hundreds of years until he eventually and hopefully takes the kingship, something that will be used as a storied item for a thousand years, the first time we made a talisman explicitly for war, the gift directly related to the talk we had with Gimli on the way to Dum.

At this point it is special, because I can pick at least two and arguably three things from that list which none of our previous items did or will in fact ever do again.
 
I realize that, and I don't want to get heated over it, but most of those were times of dangerous necessity, or first-time events of some kind making them special. At this point another gift, another wedding gift at that, isn't really special.
Of course it is special. That belt is going to be used by every King of Kraka Drakk after Gimli.

Each and every single one. That is why we made a belt, so it would go with Trollslayer and the rest of the Royal Panoply.

Well, unless Gimli dies before becoming the King, but that would not be a Good Thing.

Huh? I can't tell if you're agreeing with my post or not because it was made with the assumption that we'd spend two actions on the royal commission.
Ah.

I sincerely apologize for misreading your post.
 
I'm thinking we learn Eltharin and accept the Sea Gate request. Throw ourselves into Elf friendship funtimes
 
Hm? How is what I said conflicting? All I said is that I don't want to put an epic level piece of gear on the future king because I consider that to be too low.
Oh, you mean colored/tiered Epic, I misunderstood. Anyways, it's a little late for that. Wyrm's Hide, which is both the king's and the one in the Set, is "only" Epic.

If making it Legendary is most important, keep in mind it's already benefitting from being made with Zharrgal and Barak Azamar. If you want to clinch it just use a bar of Adamant as it's composite material (I'm honestly a little surprised no one wanted to. . Between all that and the reagents, well...we've made Legendary items from less.
 
Oh, you mean colored/tiered Epic, I misunderstood. Anyways, it's a little late for that. Wyrm's Hide, which is both the king's and the one in the Set, is "only" Epic.

If making it Legendary is most important, keep in mind it's already benefitting from being made with Zharrgal and Barak Azamar. If you want to clinch it just use a bar of Adamant as it's composite material (I'm honestly a little surprised no one wanted to. . Between all that and the reagents, well...we've made Legendary items from less.
I already know that, that's why I specified I don't want to put another piece of epic gear on a future king one is enough shame as is. And I think at this point we're beyond the point where I can insert adamant into the project so I'd prefer to clinch my chances with an extra action instead.
 
In regards to a potential brana runesmith, maybe just send the brana, if they ever ask, to thugni? let him decide? or we send a letter to ask?
 
I already know that, that's why I specified I don't want to put another piece of epic gear on a future king one is enough shame as is. And I think at this point we're beyond the point where I can insert adamant into the project so I'd prefer to clinch my chances with an extra action instead.
Mmm, it says right in the action to "Apply optional structural materials and any aesthetic changes here."
 
If making it Legendary is most important, keep in mind it's already benefitting from being made with Zharrgal and Barak Azamar. If you want to clinch it just use a bar of Adamant as it's composite material (I'm honestly a little surprised no one wanted to. . Between all that and the reagents, well...we've made Legendary items from less.
When did we ever make a Legendary item by just putting one action into it? The only item that I can think of would be the Wyrmheart Amulet.

Which is far less important than what this belt will be. As I have already said, this belt will be worn by the Kings of Kraka Drakk until the end of Clan Ironarm. Just throwing an action in, as an afterthought, is basically unacceptable to me.

In regards to a potential brana runesmith, maybe just send the brana, if they ever ask, to thugni? let him decide? or we send a letter to ask?
I don't think that Snorri would do that. There are some things that are just Too Radical for him. Like, I could see him doing it if in the case of exploding dice, he rolled about fifteen successive nat100s.

Actually that is probably low balling it.
 
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