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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Captain Spatula said:
Snorri did inspire... Bara I think it was? She saw his Adamant and got inspired and started to work for it herself. She was still working to it and trying to figure out why Snorri's 'processed' Gromril seemed brighter? shinier? than hers. So yeah, its happening, kinda.
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I can't wait for her to approach Snorri with her results. That's gonna be a great scene.
 
I think with dwarfs, trying to get the elders approval is always the secondary unspoken goal.
We had it spelled out with Kraka Dorden: the runesmiths most prone to making ginormous war machines got their elders approval (by being made runelords) so the younger runesmiths are trying to get their approval by making more big warmachines.

Its Beardlings all the way down, and elders all the way up.
 
It seems to me that trading the rune of forged limb to Valma should not be a problem. Her expertise in golems is well established. She could likely figure it out on her own if she hasn't already so we would only be saving her time.
 
fictionfan said:
It seems to me that trading the rune of forged limb to Valma should not be a problem. Her expertise in golems is well established. She could likely figure it out on her own if she hasn't already so we would only be saving her time.
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Political issues, if it seems like we are promoting use of Forged limbs in order to trade the rune for shinnies bad things will happen as it would be persieved very badly by the guilds.

At the moment we are getting away with it because people think Snorri is get doing the best he can to be helpful even if it's in a bleeding heart beardling way. If it starts to look like we are doing it for personal gain... well let's just say it could end very badly, as in civil war badly.
 
fictionfan said:
It seems to me that trading the rune of forged limb to Valma should not be a problem. Her expertise in golems is well established. She could likely figure it out on her own if she hasn't already so we would only be saving her time.
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Due to our big team-up with the Cult of Valaya to give prosthetics to everyone who needs them, we have to be especially careful propagating that rune. The only politically safe way to do it is to teach it to our apprentices.
 
Shaper47 said:
Political issues, if it seems like we are promoting use of Forged limbs in order to trade the rune for shinnies bad things will happen as it would be persieved very badly by the guilds.

At the moment we are getting away with it because people think Snorri is get doing the best he can to be helpful even if it's in a bleeding heart beardling way. If it starts to look like we are doing it for personal gain... well let's just say it could end very badly, as in civil war badly.
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The political issues were specifically that we were trading that rune in exchange for other Rune smiths who received it had to do things with it.
soulcake said:
if the House of Runelords has any probable cause to believe you're teaching Runesmiths the Rune of Prosthesis on the condition that they be made to partake in your little gambit, you're getting called to explain yourself.
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The key problem is that its on the condition.
Not even Thungni told Runesmiths how to act so we are both possibly forcing them to act in conflict with their interpretation of the Rule of Pride but also that we are implying that we know the right way to do Runesmithing.

The problem was always that we were assuming authority that we shouldn't have had.
Without the context that we are doing that, are no issues in trading that rune that are different to trading any other rune of similar difficulty.
 
Dark as Silver said:
The political issues were specifically that we were trading that rune in exchange for other Rune smiths who received it had to do things with it.

The key problem is that its on the condition.
Not even Thungni told Runesmiths how to act so we are both possibly forcing them to act in conflict with their interpretation of the Rule of Pride but also that we are implying that we know the right way to do Runesmithing.

The problem was always that we were assuming authority that we shouldn't have had.
Without the context that we are doing that, are no issues in trading that rune that are different to trading any other rune of similar difficulty.
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Reading that Soulcake post I'd be okay trading it to Valma as she is a gronti specialist but I am a little leery because of how radical she is. I definetly wouldn't trade it to any other runelords unless they are a gronti specialist from another region or a staunch conservative just to avoid any of the problems he mentions popping up.
 
Eh, the debates between the different (until the Snorrist faction takes over :p ) Runesmith/Lord factions seems more on priority and focus rather than outright telling each other stuff on that level like what we risked skirting.

I feel like the only reason *we*could have risked that was quest power, otherwise any Dawi wouldn't risk that much.
 
That was an awesome read. Let Snorri's legend grow further with each Dawi he helps.

Regarding the rune exchange, I feel like there's a good chance this could lead to Dwarven Mechs. A pilotable Gronti or heavy lifting machine able to work at much larger capacities without loss of wualoty dwarven skill.

With Gazul's trinket how many Ancestors has he met??

I'm really excited to see him read the Elven Books and his take. There will be plenty of grumbling about all the fanciful fluff with no solidity, flowery language etc. But it will probably prove useful. Maybe even garner enough interest to find one with some common sense and grit to exchange ideas with. If you're a baddy, you never want Elves and Dwarves to combo anything.

With the Father of Mammoths free, the northern Karaks going strong and getting stronger, the final(?) crushing of Hashut, and the culture developing, this is gonna be a VERY different situation if/when the Norsii are driven North through what will be Kislev. I can't imagine how dwarves and elves will see that series of events. So many changes adding up is gonna be amazing if it's played out in this story.
 
Though he hasn't had any meaningful interaction with Thungni and Morgrim, I don't think either of them has even spoken a word directed at Snorri. So it would be nice to get something closer to what he had with Grungi/Valaya with those two as well as Smednir.
 
T_blazian said:
I'm really excited to see him read the Elven Books and his take. There will be plenty of grumbling about all the fanciful fluff with no solidity, flowery language etc. But it will probably prove useful. Maybe even garner enough interest to find one with some common sense and grit to exchange ideas with. If you're a baddy, you never want Elves and Dwarves to combo anything.
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The elven magical language Anoqeyån, is apparently exceptionally precise and rich, as it's closest to the Old One's self-extending language which could apparently describe any concept. Their regular language, Eltharin, is a simplified form of that.

Eltharin and Khazalid have also been called out to have strong similarities, being closely related descendants of the same source language, probably the Old Ones'.
 
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It's curious, if I remember correctly, when Snorri met Morgrim there was a counter that appeared. However, there is no such counter in the latest update.
I wonder...
 
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Jreengus said:
Though he hasn't had any meaningful interaction with Thungni and Morgrim, I don't think either of them has even spoken a word directed at Snorri. So it would be nice to get something closer to what he had with Grungi/Valaya with those two as well as Smednir.
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We got a meaningful look though.
soulcake said:
Whatever the case, you will not fail the expectations of the House, and mayhaps even Thungni's?

Even as you sit down you dare glance at your, no matter how distant, Ancestor. Trying, with what little skill you have, to guess how he may have voted.

(Roll, Thungni: ???? +50[Perception beyond Reckoning] +???[Eyes of The Glimmering King] +???[??? Mind] -4??[Gr?f?] -???[???] =He notices)

Only to stare back at the full gaze of the Ancestor, watching you with inscrutable intent.

(Roll, Perception: 93 +30[Runelord] +2[Sniffer] +???[???] -???[???] =93)

It feels like blasphemy in a way, for one such as you to dare assume you know what Thungni of all dwarfs is feeling or thinking. But the feeling deep in the roots of your beard hairs cannot be denied, you are certain about what he transmits through his gaze. So certain, that you'd swear on your Ancestors, your Honour, your Beard that it could only be that message.

Prove me right.
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Jreengus said:
Yup, and we got a look from Morgrim too, and that's way beyond what most dwarves would even dream of but I'm kind of greedy so I'd like a full conversation or even just a few lines and a gift like Grimnir/Gazul gave us.
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I can't find where we met Mogrim, I think we warded the Aeires that he designed, but I think that was a couple years after he'd moved on. Could you remind me what update I should look at?
 
Dark as Silver said:
I can't find where we met Mogrim, I think we warded the Aeires that he designed, but I think that was a couple years after he'd moved on. Could you remind me what update I should look at?
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soulcake said:
"If Grimnir the Valiant gave you that ring beardling you've already proven yourself. Save your death Adamant Wyrm," he replies, glancing at you for a moment before returning to stare at Otrek and continuing, "save it for something better."
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It was worse than I remembered. We got a glance, clearly we need to build a super-weapon that combines engineering and runecraft so Morgrim senpai will properly notice us.
 
Dark as Silver said:
The political issues were specifically that we were trading that rune in exchange for other Rune smiths who received it had to do things with it.

The key problem is that its on the condition.
Not even Thungni told Runesmiths how to act so we are both possibly forcing them to act in conflict with their interpretation of the Rule of Pride but also that we are implying that we know the right way to do Runesmithing.

The problem was always that we were assuming authority that we shouldn't have had.
Without the context that we are doing that, are no issues in trading that rune that are different to trading any other rune of similar difficulty.
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So, we have no way to interact with this consideration when making the exchange. Snorri isn't one to trade the rune of Prosthesis on the condition of joining. Perhaps we might get the option to recruit Valma into the Arm Them wagon later and that is also a problem.

And Soulcake has mentioned as well that if someone else does what you quote, we'd get called in just the same.
soulcake said:
If for some reason a Dwarf you shared this Rune with expands the operation and does the above, you're getting called to explain yourself.
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We must be able to trust someone won't do that, ever.

Another consideration here is that since we cannot set the condition, and Snorri is not one likely to set the condition without our input, and it isn't an inevitable problem we have no current means to avert (as that is bad design), that must mean it is a problem we can interact with through some means currently available to us. The only things we can do at the moment that interact with that last point involve decisions over the trade of the Rune of Prosthesis and actions after that: don't give it out, give it out, and give it out to people who won't ever pull a fast one with authority. And decisions about collaboration on Arm Them which requires that the collaborator have the Rune of Prosthesis in the first place.

E: To be as clear as I can, when I say interact I meant either avert or worsen.

Another bit that's important to this.
soulcake said:
AGAIN. What a Runesmith does on his own time is not the Guild's business. If you keep this to yourself and just your apprentices there will only ever be grumbling since they will believe this is just in line with how you act normally. If other Runesmiths start doing it, and they start to collectivise, even without your input, that risks the Guild literally splitting itself in a schism because the Conservatives will no longer abide this very obvious break of tradition and the Rule of Pride, nor would the Radicals support a departure on such a scale.
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If it gets out beyond our apprentices and their apprentices then the risk increases and this clearly indicates along with the above that it is a problem of optics and perception. If we give the wrong outward perception of our actions, the other runelords of the house will stand up and start asking very pointed questions.

In my opinion since this has some of the most severe potential consequences if it goes bad, so it makes the most sense to me to take the safest route and the safest route is to just not give either rune of Prosthesis or Forged Limb.
 
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Notes on the mechanics of movement-motion, however, would likely aid Valma better than the Runes of Prosthesis-Forged Limb. After all, it isn't a Rune, but still aids her in improving her gronti beyond the scope of M-Waking! I mean, didn't Bara and Brynna give us some of their notes when we inadvertently aided them in their own bottlenecks?
 
BungieONI said:
So, we have no way to interact with this consideration when making the exchange. Snorri isn't one to trade the rune of Prosthesis on the condition of joining. Perhaps we might get the option to recruit Valma into the Arm Them wagon later and that is also a problem.

And Soulcake has mentioned as well that if someone else does what you quote, we'd get called in just the same.

We must be able to trust someone won't do that, ever.

Another consideration here is that since we cannot set the condition, and Snorri is not one likely to set the condition without our input, and it isn't an inevitable problem we have no current means to avert (as that is bad design), that must mean it is a problem we can interact with through some means currently available to us. The only things we can do at the moment that interact with that last point involve decisions over the trade of the Rune of Prosthesis and actions after that: don't give it out, give it out, and give it out to people who won't ever pull a fast one with authority. And decisions about collaboration on Arm Them which requires that the collaborator have the Rune of Prosthesis in the first place.

E: To be as clear as I can, when I say interact I meant either avert or worsen.

Another bit that's important to this.

If it gets out beyond our apprentices and their apprentices then the risk increases and this clearly indicates along with the above that it is a problem of optics and perception. If we give the wrong outward perception of our actions, the other runelords of the house will stand up and start asking very pointed questions.

In my opinion since this has some of the most severe potential consequences if it goes bad, so it makes the most sense to me to take the safest route and the safest route is to just not give either rune of Prosthesis or Forged Limb.
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I think you are overstating the threat. If someone we trade the rune to starts doing that stuff with it we will be called up but at that point we just need to be able to defend ourselves and the trade. Trading an animation related rune to a gronti expert is a perfectly reasonable and defendable action. I think the real thing we have to be careful about is what the dwarves we trade it to take from our actions as this is a key part of how elders pass on their wisdom. If we trade the rune to Valma, as a gronti expert that only really says we think she can be trusted with a rune that has interesting impacts on her specialty. And if she does start taking the wrong idea from it and doing something problematic we can have a word with her about it.

I doubt any issues will crop up though unless we do something like trade the rune to one runelord in each hold in that north, that would imply to them we expect each runelord we traded it to to do Arm Them for their own hold, or if we trade it to a bunch of radical runesmiths that work together and or live in nearby karaks, that would imply we want them to work together on the rune.

This is why I think we should stick to trading it to gronti specialist runelords from different areas and/or diehard conservatives, the first makes it clear we are simply giving it to them due to it's applicability to their specialty and avoids the issues of collaboration; the second can be trusted not to do anything stupid with it. If either causes problems with it we can step in to stop them and our hands will be clean.
 
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Personally I feel the non-dwarfoid Gronti research would be just as useful to Valma, ..and not politically perilous like the forged-limbs.

I just find it amusing that Valma (and Lorna) get the wierd stuff Snorri has no idea what to do with, "it's your speciality you figure it out".

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We really want to keep the forged limbs on the down low; we have Valaya is "compelled to provide bandaids" vs Thungni's "make unique artisinanial bandaids" these oaths kinda conflict.
I mean a solution could be a runesmith dedicated to Valaya instead of Thungni, but that feels like another can of extraordinary spicy noodles.
 
So... where's Grungi's Axe? IIRC one of the Princes from this place had it, and he died in a cave where Gotrek eventually found it. Which implies it's still somewhere here.
 
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