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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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It sounds like they might straight up abandon the hold which actually might be a good precedent to set now where they straight up decide to never go back. If the Time of Woes dwarfs were willing to give up lost holds instead of trying to constantly reclaim them and continuously failing that would help a lot with the attrition. Setting the precedent up now would definitely help with that.
 
I imagine they'll pay lip service to the idea of recolonizing it at some point... in the distant future... look, we'll get to it eventually.

Edit: Also, with Dum being the only hold in the region, and bordering the chaos wastes, I wonder if it provided a buffer against chaos in cannon, that will no longer exist if it is abandoned as many expect. Wonder if that'll lead to chaos being more adventurous, or coming at us from that general direction.
 
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In canon, particualrly the book DaemonSlayer, the Dum dwarves were evacuated with great losses from Dum and abandoned the hold due to the fact they simply couldn't hold it against the endless hordes of daemons, chaos men, and beastmen so even in canon they did have limits to what they were willing to try to save.

It might be in this case that Dum gets evacuated really early as opposed to cannon where it never went through the Betrayal and was ground down to a nub instead.
 
I am really worried those deep underground holds will be prime skaven city in future/well how impromant is dum strategically? if it was abandoned and never returned to would that be a huge loss? could they come back later connect it to underway or exc? or is it not much gain for a lot of pain
 
I am really worried those deep underground holds will be prime skaven city in future/well how impromant is dum strategically? if it was abandoned and never returned to would that be a huge loss? could they come back later connect it to underway or exc? or is it not much gain for a lot of pain
The furthest north that the Skaven ever set up an Undercity in canon was the Hell Pit, near Praag. Karak Dum is quite a bit further north from that. So I'd call it rather unlikely, even without taking into account the distinct possibility of a much stronger Northern Holds Dawi that is actually capable of power projection, and perhaps even an uncollapsed Underway.
 
Well in Daemonslayer the beastmen and chaos tribes used the sections of Dum they controlled to forge arms and armor of the black and corruptly runed variety with the skaven not being able to handle being so far in the waste with the one skaven stowaway that they'd picked up (long story) ending up massively mutated by just being exposed to the air of the Chaos Wastes alone.
 
Yeah, in the book they could only take limited people and artifacts due to using a zeppelin to go over the wastes...here we have not only the survivors, a mammoth god that might be willing to help out, but a very big Throng that can set up convoys and such to carry everything of value out of Dum this time.
 
one skaven stowaway that they'd picked up (long story) ending up massively mutated by just being exposed to the air of the Chaos Wastes alone.
Sounds like the seeds to an entirely new faction.

It depends on how well we can salt the earth as we leave. We don't want anyone using this place.
Yep. Let's ensure all structures here are taken down and no connecting routes left for others to take advantage of.
 
I'd like for Snorri to use Zharrgal and Barak Azamar to just straight up destroy Dum. If we leave it intact it will just act as a forward operating base for any force that comes down from the Chaos Wastes.

Just have Snorri use Zharrgals abilities to call up magma over and over again to cause a small artificial volcanic eruption. Barak Azamar should let him survive such a thing easily.

This is of course assuming Gazul doesn't just do the same thing he did before and turn Dum into a flaming hole in the ground.
 
Its also worth considering that since this is out near the wastes that once all the rune craft and other stuff that might prevent it from being swallowed up will likely be gone, so when the shadow of chaos next moves down and swallows it up the place may just be mutated beyond all recognition and lost entirely.
 
Its also worth considering that since this is out near the wastes that once all the rune craft and other stuff that might prevent it from being swallowed up will likely be gone, so when the shadow of chaos next moves down and swallows it up the place may just be mutated beyond all recognition and lost entirely.
Yeah, and unless we rush the Underway connecting to here, which has its own host of dangers as the Chaos Wastes expand, Dum will just be isolated if they do stay at best and ad worst they'll just get overrun later.

Might be better to take *everything* from it and use our hammer to essentially flood the place with lava and turn the mountain to a volcano to prevent it from serving the Great Enemy.
 
Do widowed Dwarves ever remarry?

How unprecedented would it be for us to try and collaborate on a research project towards a particular type of rune? I want to try and invent a Palantir style object for long range communication.
 
Do widowed Dwarves ever remarry?
Widows have a better chance of doing so than widowers due to demographics. Lots more men than women.
But they probably have just as hard a time getting over the loss.
So i'd say it's quite uncommon, but possible.

How unprecedented would it be for us to try and collaborate on a research project towards a particular type of rune? I want to try and invent a Palantir style object for long range communication.
You and half the thread ;).

We have done research collaboration with the brotherhood, so there is precedent. It just requires shared interest and enough standing with each other to trust that they can pull their own weight on the project.
 
The North becoming the land of weird sapient animals is a cool thought. What's next after Griffons and Mammoths?
My guess?
"Have you found that which you seek then?" he asks the Elder, taking the criticism with ease and committing it to memory.

The hooded dwarf was silent for a while still, staring out into the crystalline desert, Drakk bones larger than any living thing had seen in aeons, jutting out of the multihued sand.

"Of a sort Beardling," the dwarf rumbled, sheathing his burning blade, "of a sort. Omdra was too arrogant to be bargained with, but her eldest daughter was not. Regardless, just know that you will have your fire when the time comes. Hurry along now, this strife will not be quelled with our dallying."
The cavern rumbles around them, the sounds of battle echo through the halls and galleries above. The roar of dragons intermixing with the bellow of bulls over the din of Khazalid chanting and screaming.

"Come," the Ancestor orders, hefting his blade and picking up Astrogoth's head, "Our work is not yet done here."
Dragons.

Probably not on the level of the North Dwarfs-Griffons relationship. But the East Dwarfs might have occasional friendly dealings with Omdra's daughter's brood. Or maybe it was a one-time thing.

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The current situation is basically what happened to the Eastern Dwarfs in canon. They were able to take over and establish themselves as they have in Dum because of how isolated it is. There are no other Dum's though, this is basically the Chaos Dwarfs last hurrah and attempt to be a separate faction that can operate in the open thus allowing for the beast men slave army.

Once we finish here the Chaos Dwarfs as we know them in canon simply won't be possible because if they become able to do the same thing they have here and takeover a Karak they would have to hide themselves if they don't want the rest of Dwarf kind to come down on them which means no slave armies which means no need for creating superior slaves which means no Black Orcs.
I hope so, though I don't know for sure.
"This battle draws to a close, but the war continues. I saw only three of his apprentices present before we assaulted them. The other five, they're still out there, biding their time until sorrow returns and faith falters. You must remain vigilant," he says.
After all, Gazul said that there were apparently five apprentices unaccounted for. For all we know, the other 4 went the equivalent of deep underground and secretive, rather than trying for a last gasp major attempt.

So we could see this happen as many as 4 more times. If not more, if they leave successful apprentices or lineages of their own.

Maybe another will start enslaving Orcs instead of Beastmen. Or enslaving, or using as cats' paws, humans.

Or maybe they'll try to start something between the Dwarfs and the High Elves. Wouldn't that be ironic? It's not like the Dwarfs would want to be upfront about what's going on, after all. Especially since this isn't a huge split-in-half civil war which is impossible for them to hide or ignore; instead, it's a private shame and a threat that skulks in the shadows and depths and spreads faithlessness and preys upon desperation. It's the very epitome of a dark secret.

I have a feeling that if the Dwarf-High Elf war comes, it'll be a lot nastier for some Dwarf Holds. As they'll risk falling to Hashut as a consequence of the War or the Time of Woes that follows.

Or maybe they'll try to target the Brana. Figuring that if they can sacrifice their Ancestor-God, maybe they'll be able to resurrect Hashut.

Or go steal from the Lizardmen, thus getting the Slann pissed at the Dwarfs.
 
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Definitely in favor of reducing the place to rubble. For both the practical reasons stated above and because I want to have it crushed for all the horrible things that happened here, leaving not even a trace of this terrible betrayal behind.
 
Well the thing is that this is the golden age right now. The dwarfs could retake Dum they have the resources. In this time line the North and East are still part of the dwarf realm. Honestly the corruption would be fixable. We would just need put up a master rune of purification or maybe waystones would get developed in response to the problem. If the dwarfs of Dum decide to stay then the hold will be held. It might be the target and battleground for the first ever choosen.
 
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