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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Dark as Silver said:
Even assuming that clans is a misspeak here it seems to suggests that all Runesmiths are Rune scribes but not vice versa. Interesting to see guilds within guilds and I wonder how Rune scribes relate to Thungni.

And I think what soulcake was hinting at was that making them for the Runescribes guild enabling them to do more work and in doing so making it more accessible would have trickle on effects of other dwarves learning to read through greater exposure and cultural relevance.
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The Runescribes Guild has no relation to the Runesmiths Guild institutionally (at least for this quest). It's more that Runesmith Clans, as a rule, teach their members literacy very early on for very obvious reasons, and because of the environment they grow up in Runesmith Clans produce Dwarfs very well suited to the type of temperament, memory and work ethic a Runescribe requires by accident. To no one's surprise, both Runescribes and Runesmiths need a vast encyclopedic knowledge of Runes, the only difference is that a Runesmith can make the Runes spit fire literally while a Runescribe can only do so literarily.

Some Runesmith Clans have deeper ties to the Runescribes Guild, like Karaz a Karak's, wherein Clansdwarfs who don't have The Gift that go into the Runescribes as their vocation is seen as acceptable as becoming a regular smith.
 
soulcake said:
Some Runesmith Clans have deeper ties to the Runescribes Guild, like Karaz a Karak's, wherein Clansdwarfs who don't have The Gift that go into the Runescribes as their vocation is seen as acceptable as becoming a regular smith.
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Presumably this then means that some of their future descendants born to Runescribe parents then move back in the other direction...
 
kinglugia said:
Do Runescribes become Reckoners, or are both roles different?
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Runescribes usually end up as one of or the sole Loremaster of a Hold or stay in the Guild.

Reckoners require a similar skillset though. What with the vast library of laws a Hold may have and all that. Really, most of the Runesmith and Noble Clans provide the majority of the candidate pool for these kinds of careers.
 
MrHobbit said:
What are Runepriests then? I've seen it mentioned a few times as distinctive to Runesmiths, but it didnmt really mention what they do.
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The term Runepriest is the domain of either 40k or Warhammer Online.

Every Runesmith is technically a priest of Thungni. Whereas things like the Engineers Guild and the Metalsmiths Guild have a technical degree of legal and career separation from the Cults of Morgrim and Smednir respectively, not so for the Runesmiths. The Guild and the Clergy are one in the same.
 
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Probably be the dedicated 'enemy magic dispellers' compared to Runesmiths, but also possessing the skillset of one. Just you know, they prefer dispelling enemy magic fuckery and using their own Runic bullshit instead of making Runic Items.
 
soulcake said:
The Runescribes Guild has no relation to the Runesmiths Guild institutionally (at least for this quest). It's more that Runesmith Clans, as a rule, teach their members literacy very early on for very obvious reasons, and because of the environment they grow up in Runesmith Clans produce Dwarfs very well suited to the type of temperament, memory and work ethic a Runescribe requires by accident. To no one's surprise, both Runescribes and Runesmiths need a vast encyclopedic knowledge of Runes, the only difference is that a Runesmith can make the Runes spit fire literally while a Runescribe can only do so literarily.

Some Runesmith Clans have deeper ties to the Runescribes Guild, like Karaz a Karak's, wherein Clansdwarfs who don't have The Gift that go into the Runescribes as their vocation is seen as acceptable as becoming a regular smith.
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Yeah that more reflects what we've seen in the apprentice process, i.e. we pick children rather than a 200 year old scribes. Except for the part where I think you mixed up literally and metaphorically/figuratively.
Honestly the runesmiths being a subsection of the rune scribes makes sense if its still basically the same skill + making it do something, except for the part where they're priests.

Runes being the same as dwarf written language kinda raises questions, like "If Runesmiths don't share secrets, how would scribes read new runes?" and if Runesmiths do share the shapes but not the order to make the Rune so that people can recognise it but not replicate it, how did dwarves write things like dictate (which would probably be needed to say who was taking meeting notes a lot)? And of course, with Khazalid being a compound language, are we able to glue Runes together in the same way, is that what a master rune is? Are runescribes able to discover new words and then its up to runesmiths to find the right way to make that a proper Rune?
 
soulcake said:
Every Runesmith is technically a priest of Thungni. Whereas things like the Engineers Guild and the Metalsmiths Guild have a technical degree of legal and career separation from the Cults of Morgrim and Smednir respectively, not so for the Runesmiths. The Guild and the Clergy are one in the same.
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Huh, how did the separation of Guild and Clergy come about in regards to Smednir and Morgrim? I guess they didn't have as intimate of a connection as with Runesmiths and Thungni?
 
Dark as Silver said:
Yeah that more reflects what we've seen in the apprentice process, i.e. we pick children rather than a 200 year old scribes. Except for the part where I think you mixed up literally and metaphorically/figuratively.
Honestly the runesmiths being a subsection of the rune scribes makes sense if its still basically the same skill + making it do something, except for the part where they're priests.
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LiteRALLY spitting fire
LiteRARILY spitting fire

Runes being the same as dwarf written language kinda raises questions, like "If Runesmiths don't share secrets, how would scribes read new runes?" and if Runesmiths do share the shapes but not the order to make the Rune so that people can recognise it but not replicate it, how did dwarves write things like dictate (which would probably be needed to say who was taking meeting notes a lot)?
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Khazalid has an alphabet component of the Klinkarhun, but there's also a pictographic component Agrurhun as well. Runescribes deal with these, and they aren't bound by the same laws of secrecy.

And of course, with Khazalid being a compound language, are we able to glue Runes together in the same way, is that what a master rune is?
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I mean I posted the entire Rune Magic thing in the informational. Unless this is rhetorical.

Are runescribes able to discover new words and then its up to runesmiths to find the right way to make that a proper Rune?
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Thats not how it works.

For any Dwarf Language minutae and details I point you towards Boney. They have a better grasp on this than me, and while I won't say our ways of writing Khazalid are the same, they're similar enough to get by.
Dark as Silver said:
I thought that was canon, but then theres this bit:

So it may not be quest canon.
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I am referring to two different sets of Runes here. There's just a lot of overlap for the simpler and earlier discovered magical Runes with Khazalid.
 
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MrHobbit said:
Huh, how did the separation of Guild and Clergy come about in regards to Smednir and Morgrim? I guess they didn't have as intimate of a connection as with Runesmiths and Thungni?
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Off the top of my head, the difference is historical and inventional. And religious.

Engineering and Smithing existed before Morgrim and Smednir. Dwarfs have been mining and smithing and tinkering forever ago; the Ancestor Gods were just the best at it.

Runesmithing? Did not exist before Thungni. (Or at least, maybe it existed, but in far lesser or far rarer form or far more unreliable. Whereas after Thungni, it meant that everybody descended from Thungni could use runes for sure.)

So, Morgrim and Smednir became the chief gods of something that already existed. Hence, they added or codified a clergy and religious aspect to already existing parts of Dwarf life. Morgrim and Smednir are simply the great exemplars of engineering and metalworking, like Grungni is of mining and kingship, Grimnir of war and battle, Valaya of brewing and queenship and so on.

The Glittering Realm though, that was discovered. And then harnessed by Thungni and the Ancestor Gods. There were no Runesmiths before Thungni. Or perhaps, they existed, but were so damn rare and with much less power and ability. If Runes are an innate power of the Dwarfs, then maybe Dwarfs had runes all along (or the capability of such), and they occasionally had Dwarf scribes that were able to do a bit more with mysticism then it was expected to be possible, but. But then, the Ancestor Gods took that and made it a torrent of power.

Maybe it was a tiny cottage industry or artcraft before. But now, now it is a profession and cultural keystone in truth. Made possible because Thungni did something big enough that made it so that any and all descendants of his could manifest the potential for runecraft.

So, the difference is that Runesmithing was the sort of profession that a legendary Culture Hero could have a huge impact in it, beyond that of a legendary Smith or Engineer. Because magic itself is receptive to such legendary deeds and efforts.
 
Hmm now that i think about it, are there any religious rituals dedicated to Ancestor Gods? And if so, will we ever see Snorri acting in his role as main priest of thungi in Karak drakk?
 
Garlak said:
Off the top of my head, the difference is historical and inventional. And religious.

Engineering and Smithing existed before Morgrim and Smednir. Dwarfs have been mining and smithing and tinkering forever ago; the Ancestor Gods were just the best at it.
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Morgrim was the first engineer, Smednir did suborn the Metalsmiths Guild.

The reason all Runesmiths are priests of Thungni is for a variety of reasons. The largest reason is the fact that the Gift is a requirement to become an initiate or higher in the cult, this ended up meaning the traditions of the Craftguild have become madly intertwined with the traditions of the Cult. Moreover the blood requirement also sorta finagles things as well; while any dwarf can become an engineer or metalsmith theoretically, only Thungni's descendants can become Runesmiths. Paired with the fact that Thungni has no true temples but rather shrines inside workshops and Runesmith Clanhalls and like a very small one in the temple district* means there's also a degree of exclusivity.

*Generally speaking. Winterhearth Hold is a Runesmith Clan populated place and therefore the Hold is technically its Clanhall.
 
Aigloss said:
Hmm now that i think about it, are there any religious rituals dedicated to Ancestor Gods? And if so, will we ever see Snorri acting in his role as main priest of thungi in Karak drakk?
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Creation of runes is worship of Thungni. The nearest thing to mass worship is Snorri making a ton of Rune enhanced tools so that the dwarfs of the hold can do their work better. The Lay-dwarfs using runes and being thankful for them is indirect mass-worship of Thungni.
 
So on a different note, it looks like we may have saved Kislev some grief by killing Kholek.

According to the 8E book, he "smashed his way into the city [Praag] with pure brute force" and then "stalked the Old Quarter of the City, demolishing each and every temple within the city walls."

So that's nice.
 
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Voikirium said:
So on a different note, it looks like we may have saved Kislev some grief by killing Kholek.

According to the 8E book, he "smashed his way into the city [Praag] with pure brute force" and then "stalked the Old Quarter of the City, demolishing each and every temple within the city walls."

So that's nice.
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That's just the last incident that didn't happen.

Kholek is a a periodic calamity that this Old world doesn't have to deal with ever again.
 
IronFist said:
That's just the last incident that didn't happen.

Kholek is a a periodic calamity that this Old world doesn't have to deal with ever again.
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Sure, but considering how badly Praag got done, not having Kholek around will probably help. Every second they have to putz around more cause they can't just knock down the wall with Dragon Ogre Hax is a second longer Magnus' cavalry would have to arrive.
 
soulcake said:
Now, aiding the Scribes Guild in fulfilling their task and maybe pushing them to expand their remit to other pursuits that would inadvertently increase the output of and therefore the amount of writing available, which via osmosis would slowly improve the literacy rate among Dawi!?
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Wait, do illiterate dwarves exist in enough numbers for that to be an issue? During their Golden Age, no less? Huh, I suppose that even with such long childhoods they might not find someone to teach them how to read and write. It's just disconcerting for me to think about them as such.

Edit: Just read through the explanations up above. Sorry, I didn't think to refresh before I posted.
 
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Voikirium said:
Sure, but considering how badly Praag got done, not having Kholek around will probably help. Every second they have to putz around more cause they can't just knock down the wall with Dragon Ogre Hax is a second longer Magnus' cavalry would have to arrive.
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That's assuming the northern Holds and the Brana don't get there first.
 
Voikirium said:
Sure, but considering how badly Praag got done, not having Kholek around will probably help. Every second they have to putz around more cause they can't just knock down the wall with Dragon Ogre Hax is a second longer Magnus' cavalry would have to arrive.
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I'm sure.

But that's just th last cherry on the Kholek free cake.

Assuming Kholek sleeps 400 years, and then goes wrecking Order factions' days for about a century (generous), we've prevented ~10 such occasions.
 
IronFist said:
I'm sure.

But that's just th last cherry on the Kholek free cake.

Assuming Kholek sleeps 400 years, and then goes wrecking Order factions' days for about a century (generous), we've prevented ~10 such occasions.
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Eh. With the world of Warhammer, good odds he spent most of his time fighting the Dark Elves or the Orcs or the Skaven or some other thing we want dead. :V
 
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