Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

[SynchronizedWritersBlock]

Uh, did you miss the bit where there wasn't any smoke until AFTER we willed smoke into being? The original flame that we created was smokeless, it wasn't until we started experimenting that it started smoking, and the smoke reeks of the same sort of witch matter that our fire is made of.

Hell, we even made the smoke dance abit for us. Even when it's smoke it's still fundamentally grief, and can be reverted back into raw grief at will.

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For the second time, I'm not trying to make a statement about the nature of the smoke, jesus fucking christ. I know the smoke is transmuted grief and that it got transmuted because we expected it to. My point is that it must have originally been non-transmuted grief, which implies that we transmute grief automatically in the first place

 

[Random832]

Like, we got a reaction some months ago at the QB appreciation day so...

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Did we? I don't remember that, and I don't know what day it was so I have no way to check.

 

[EtchedSteel]

Did we? I don't remember that, and I don't know what day it was so I have no way to check.

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Look for Firn's last post, in this very page.

 

['Lement]

If grief acts like how we imagine it does, can we will it to teleport maybe?

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Plz yes.

*Zone of FUCK YOU intensifies*

If we can create items with magical properties, we can probably bullshit our own healing.

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*Creates RPG healing items from Grief*

From the simple light to Phoenix Down...

Pure grief registers on senses...I think we'd have better luck /mimicking/ barrier grief as a first step if we wanted to do that.

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Hmmm. What if
a)we examined grief in our own gem
b)examined if grief changes when we add it to our own gem- in VERY small amounts

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*Turns 10 seeds worth of grief into a sandgrain*
*Hides sandgrain in gem*
*turns gem into barrier*

Probably a bad idea without testing if our gem wrests control of grief like a seed does.

Another idea is to try and teleport or dematerialise and then rematerialise grief elsewhere. If that works, can we simply keep it de-materialized and resummon it when we need to?

Finally (I swear), we should potentially be able to create witches. Familiars are formed from pure grief, and by absorbing grief they can grow into witches. This means.... well we can create souls.

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Cool idea and yes.

Creepy thought: Does a soul gem contain a soul, or is it a soul. If it shatters, have you released a soul or destroyed one?... Not that we have much idea of how souls work outside puella magi and witches although ive heard it suggested they are likely far from indestructible)

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If it is a soul, we can make one!

*MAD SCIENCE*

#ETERNAL TORMENT

Information control with Kyubey though- and we don't want to tip our hand if we don't have to.

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By default I assume that Kyubey, being Clarketech civilization, observeres everything we do outside of timestop and perhaps barrier - and probably in barrier too.

Besides, it is not like he wouldn't benefit from our goal.

Bad thoughts:

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...Eh, I guess it is about fourth as bad as taking Tomoe for our last name. Bad Crasian01. But at least it doesn't give me internal terror.

We now have a means of basically making whatever the hell we want.

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Sabrina had a grief power.
She can make anything,
is anything she wants to make?
Please...Cake, grief wings and more!

Look, you are basically telling us to will grief into "something" that will let up speed up healing, without a clear idea of the mechanisms involved, the end product, or what would even allow us to accomplish that. Do you honestly not see how this can go horribly wrong?

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Iirc there is a SCP that heals people - then overheals them into hive-mind monsters.

Buuut SCPs - made mostly to horrify people.

@techsy730 :
Your High school didn't have integration by parts?

...Weird.

You must be even more impressed then.

What principle would healing be based on? Our grief magic's roughly comparable to the Witches make barriers, but healing seems different to that unless we try and make the limbs out of said grief.

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Sayaka could heal->Sayaka could turn into a witch->Witch stuff can heal, just doesn't want to heal you.

Stored healing magic seems slightly more...possible. Grief is bullshit, yes, but it's bullshit that we know works in a certain way. If we want to make a ring of regeneration out of grief, first we need to know how a ring of regeneration works in the first place, yes?

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We don't actually know how fire that doesn't affect water works.

I know we're supposed to be OP, but there's OP and then there's God mode (being able to enchant grief with whatever the hell we wanted would allow us to replicate nearly any magic effect, which would snap any non-negotiation challenge like a twig)

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See our combat in Sendai.

Snapping like a twig...Arguably yes.

[Q] Grief hair extensions

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We need to do this.

Dammit Sayaka, no don't contraaacK!

Have we tried bumping them with *ahem* unoccupied bodies, and seeing what happens?

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Asunaro!


...No, we have not.

A little shadowrun-y, but it would explain the conflicting personalities and wealth of knowledge in her head.

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Dedolere makes me think otherwise.

Why haven't we added coalescing grief to our science list? It's an obvious plot hook.
I just don't understand!

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We have. Grief gems come first.

 

[Onmur]

We have. Grief gems come first.

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I want this to happen.

Say, if we create a grief-familiar, we'd likely make it something simple and non-intelligent so we can destroy it with no moral issues.

If manage to make a grief-Soul Gem and manage to 'transfer' a seed core into one, or in some other way manage to un-witchify* a Witch, I assume we would then try and regenerate the reborn soul gem out of scratch, which might pose problems on it's own. Now the question is: What the hell do we do with the resulting meguca? I'd guess most of them would be out of time and need a lot of getting used to a modern life-style. How do we explain the megucas to Mami, Homura, etc.?

*un-witchify? Dewitch? Witch-back-in?

 

[Cannongerbil]

Frankenvote time:

This vote is basically Kine's first half, only stripped down to a manageable length. Seriously, that thing was longer than some story updates, and almost half the lines could've been discarded without impacting the experiment.
[x] Place grief cube at point A
[x] Go to a point 150m away, called point B
-[x] Create a small metronome on point 2. Set it in motion.
[x] Return to Point A. Is the cube still intact?
-[x] Either change or create a glass cube at point A.
[x] Return to Point B. Is the metronome still active?
-[x] If so, change it to a small instrument and have it start playing a tune.
[x] Return to Point A. Is the cube still glass-like?
-[x] If so, create a more complex construct composed of multiple simple properties (glass, gold, sand, stone, etc).
[x] Return to Point B. Is the instrument still playing?
-[x] Change the physical properties of the instrument (eg: a brass horn).
-[x] Leave the instrument in place and playing.
-[x] Periodically verify that it's still active during the remainder of our testing.
[x] Return to Return to point B. Verify status and clean up.

Despite the length of this vote, it really shouldn't take more than half an hour. This next segment is from Mura's vote, primarily dealing with trying to understand the structure of grief seeds and soul gems.

[X] Inspect your soul gem with your senses. Inspect the 'container'. How is it made? What feels like magic? What feels like grief?
[X] Inspect your grief seeds. Same questions.
[x] Can we make or substitute a 'container'?
-[x] With Magic?
-[x] With Grief?

After this segment is done, it's probably time to head back to Mami for lunch. Time to start testing what grief does when it tries to pull together.

[x] Find out what happens when grief outside our control is allowed to coalesce in sufficient quantities.
-[x] If it's possible to release our hold on grief that is still within our range, then do this inside our range so we can regain control if anything goes catastrophic. Otherwise, move grief to the edge of our range and be ready to quickly move closer if necessary.
--[x] Begin by releasing small amounts of grief at a time and increase until it's dense enough to do something

Somebody run a word count on this, I think we might have broken Dungbeetle's record for the longest vote ever proposed in PMAS.

 

['Lement]

A tally would be helpful.

Vote tally:
##### 3.19
[x] Acquire two 55-gallon drums that we can put stuff on (or tables, but I know that there were drums around from the last time we dropped by here).
[x] Place drum 1 at point A.
-[x] Place 1-marble cube on top of drum.
-[x] This will test whether grief itself can be maintained in solid form outside of our range.
[x] Take drum 2 150m away, so that we're well outside the control range of the cube on drum 1.
-[x] Create a small metronome on drum 2. Set it in motion.
-[x] This will test whether simple mechanical behavior persists out of our range.
[x] Return to drum 1. Is the cube still intact?
-[x] If not, further behavioral testing is probably not viable. Still test the altered property version, though.
-[x] If so, change the properties of the cube to a glass-like substance.
-[x] This will test whether property changes persist outside of our range.
[x] Return to drum 2. Is the metronome still active?
-[x] If so, change it to a small instrument and have it start playing a tune.
-[x] This will test whether controlled intent can be persisted outside of our range.
[x] Return to drum 1. Is the cube still glass-like?
-[x] If so, create a more complex construct composed of multiple simple properties (glass, gold, sand, stone, etc).
-[x] This expands on the test for whether property changes persist.
[x] Return to drum 2. Is the instrument still playing?
-[x] Change the physical properties of the instrument (eg: a brass horn).
-[x] Leave the instrument in place and playing.
-[x] Periodically verify that it's still active during the remainder of our testing.
[x] Return to drum 1. Verify status and clean up.
[x] Create two designated square areas, about 2 meters long each with openings on the front side, and a couple golf ball-sized balls of grief placed at the entrance of each one.
[x] Inside one of the grief areas, add grief that we try to transmute into the space of a long hallway (note: not tesseract or other high-dimensional stuff).
[x] Roll the golf balls through each block at the same speed and see how long each one takes to reach the other end.
[x] Repeat, but this time create the concept of a period of time (eg: 1 minute).
[x] Check for altering grief to generate other energy fields, like gravity and magnetism. Should be similar to how the fire generated heat.
No. of votes: 4
Kinematics, Higure, Krecart, Gadjo

[X] Play grief orchestra as backdrop to !!!SCIENCE!!!:
No. of votes: 1
aeqnai

[x] Find out what happens when grief outside our control is allowed to coalesce in sufficient quantities.
-[x] If it's possible to release our hold on grief that is still within our range, then do this inside our range so we can regain control if anything goes catastrophic. Otherwise, move grief to the edge of our range and be ready to quickly move closer if necessary.
--[x] Begin by releasing small amounts of grief at a time and increase until it's dense enough to do something
No. of votes: 1
Silver

[x]Test the permanence of grief. Place a standardized grief cube and an identical cube except that you order it to remain solid. Move out of range, then return. If any remain, test mechanical behavior (metronome), grief with altered properties (grief glass, combinations of substances, our new compression trick), controlled intent (instruments), intent plus transmuted substances.
[x]Your grief works according to your will. In that case, can you...
-[x]Grant or take away properties of grief. Start by simple physical properties like slight magnetism, slight gravity, slight repulsion. Increase the magnitude but not to dangerous levels, and extrapolate mentally to figure out what would be required for dangerous levels. Make the properties selective.
--[x]Attempt to disguise grief from MG senses. Either by removing how it's sensed or by adding the property of un-senseable by MGs. If that fails, can it be contained to dampen detection, or give off a deceptive feeling rather than the feeling of 'grief'?
--[x]Attempt to remove the witchy property from grief, in case that itself is a thing.
-[x]Grant magical properties to grief. Invisibility, for example.
-[x]Grant magical effects to grief. Grief-enchanted-items, basically. A grief-object that heals or helps regenerate wounds.
--[x]Create or modify grief so that it mimics magical potential in a way that can be stored and released on command, based on powers of magical girls we've seen so far. On command by people without grief powers, too.
---[x]Make those magical properties actual magic rather than a simulacrum.
-[x]Create things with grief that you don't actually understand. Household objects. Start with, say, a ballpoint pen. Then a laser pointer? A functioning smartphone?
-[x]Create things with grief that don't actually exist except in the imagination. A sci-fi ray-gun. Fictional items.
-[x]Create grief-constructs that you know exist but don't understand how they work.
--[x]Create a small barrier.
--[x]Create a familiar.
-[x]Warp space using grief. Create two small but identical designated chambers with grief, and transmute one into a hallway that is longer on the inside than the outside. Roll balls down each. Observe and time them.
--[x]Warp time in an area using grief. Same as above, but with slowed time, or a specific period of time designated.
-[x]Teleport grief within our range.
--[x]Dematerialize and rematerialize grief in our range, and hold it in the un-materialzied state.
No. of votes: 1
SynchronizedWritersBlock

[x] Place grief cube at point A
[x] Go to a point 150m away, called point B
-[x] Create a small metronome on point 2. Set it in motion.
[x] Return to Point A. Is the cube still intact?
-[x] Either change or create a glass cube at point A.
[x] Return to Point B. Is the metronome still active?
-[x] If so, change it to a small instrument and have it start playing a tune.
[x] Return to Point A. Is the cube still glass-like?
-[x] If so, create a more complex construct composed of multiple simple properties (glass, gold, sand, stone, etc).
[x] Return to Point B. Is the instrument still playing?
-[x] Change the physical properties of the instrument (eg: a brass horn).
-[x] Leave the instrument in place and playing.
-[x] Periodically verify that it's still active during the remainder of our testing.
[x] Return to Return to point B. Verify status and clean up.
[X] Inspect your soul gem with your senses. Inspect the 'container'. How is it made? What feels like magic? What feels like grief?
[X] Inspect your grief seeds. Same questions.
[x] Can we make or substitute a 'container'?
-[x] With Magic?
-[x] With Grief?
[x] Find out what happens when grief outside our control is allowed to coalesce in sufficient quantities.
-[x] If it's possible to release our hold on grief that is still within our range, then do this inside our range so we can regain control if anything goes catastrophic. Otherwise, move grief to the edge of our range and be ready to quickly move closer if necessary.
--[x] Begin by releasing small amounts of grief at a time and increase until it's dense enough to do something
No. of votes: 1
Cannongerbil

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289 words, Cannongerbil. I think few Kine's votes have been longer.

 

[Onmur]

Frankenvote time:

This vote is basically Kine's first half, only stripped down to a manageable length. Seriously, that thing was longer than some story updates, and almost half the lines could've been discarded without impacting the experiment.
[x] Place grief cube at point A
[x] Go to a point 150m away, called point B
-[x] Create a small metronome on point 2. Set it in motion.
[x] Return to Point A. Is the cube still intact?
-[x] Either change or create a glass cube at point A.
[x] Return to Point B. Is the metronome still active?
-[x] If so, change it to a small instrument and have it start playing a tune.
[x] Return to Point A. Is the cube still glass-like?
-[x] If so, create a more complex construct composed of multiple simple properties (glass, gold, sand, stone, etc).
[x] Return to Point B. Is the instrument still playing?
-[x] Change the physical properties of the instrument (eg: a brass horn).
-[x] Leave the instrument in place and playing.
-[x] Periodically verify that it's still active during the remainder of our testing.
[x] Return to Return to point B. Verify status and clean up.

Despite the length of this vote, it really shouldn't take more than half an hour. This next segment is from Mura's vote, primarily dealing with trying to understand the structure of grief seeds and soul gems.

[X] Inspect your soul gem with your senses. Inspect the 'container'. How is it made? What feels like magic? What feels like grief?
[X] Inspect your grief seeds. Same questions.
[x] Can we make or substitute a 'container'?
-[x] With Magic?
-[x] With Grief?

After this segment is done, it's probably time to head back to Mami for lunch. Time to start testing what grief does when it tries to pull together.

[x] Find out what happens when grief outside our control is allowed to coalesce in sufficient quantities.
-[x] If it's possible to release our hold on grief that is still within our range, then do this inside our range so we can regain control if anything goes catastrophic. Otherwise, move grief to the edge of our range and be ready to quickly move closer if necessary.
--[x] Begin by releasing small amounts of grief at a time and increase until it's dense enough to do something

Somebody run a word count on this, I think we might have broken Dungbeetle's record for the longest vote ever proposed in PMAS.

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Uh... Shouldn't the third part go before the first? The first one calls to place a grief made object outside our range, followed by further actions based on success. The third one is the experiment about leaving grief out of our range. There might or might not be a difference whether the grief was transmutated before leaving our range or not, but the third part of the vote realy should go before the first one.

Despite the length of this vote, it really shouldn't take more than half an hour. This next segment is from Mura's vote, primarily dealing with trying to understand the structure of grief seeds and soul gems.

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Would it take that long? I'd give fifteen minutes if it works, one if it fails at the first step.

Somebody run a word count on this, I think we might have broken Dungbeetle's record for the longest vote ever proposed in PMAS.

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There's a word counter under the reply box.

 

[EtchedSteel]

[x] CannonGerbil

 

[Cannongerbil]

Uh... Shouldn't the third part go before the first? The first one calls to place a grief made object outside our range, followed by further actions based on success. The third one is the experiment about leaving grief out of our range. There might or might not be a difference whether the grief was transmutated before leaving our range or not, but the third part of the vote realy should go before the first one.

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The first one is to test what happens when grief materials is pushed outside our range, and it's deliberately using small quantities to avoid things from backfiring too much. The third bit concerns releasing large amounts of grief until it does whatever it's trying to do, and it's placed at the end due to the large risk of something bad happening. The first bit is basically confirming what we know, the last bit is basically treading entirely new ground.

 

[Onmur]

The first one is to test what happens when grief materials is pushed outside our range, and it's deliberately using small quantities to avoid things from backfiring too much. The third bit concerns releasing large amounts of grief until it does whatever it's trying to do, and it's placed at the end due to the large risk of something bad happening. The first bit is basically confirming what we know, the last bit is basically treading entirely new ground.

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'Confirming what we know'. I expect the grief-objects to dissolve?

 

[defenestrator]

Not much to add on the science vote, but could we try to make relays for our grief control? Will/transmute some marbles to amplify or extend our grief control range. If this is actually possible, and we can 'stack' the relays with very little or no degradation in control, then we've just solved our logisitcal problems in providing free cleansing.

 

[Onmur]

Not much to add on the science vote, but could we try to make relays for our grief control? Will/transmute some marbles to amplify or extend our grief control range. If this is actually possible, and we can 'stack' the relays with very little or no degradation in control, then we've just solved our logisitcal problems in providing free cleansing.

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There was a mention of attempting this by using grief to warp space.

I guess it would work by making grief tubes inside of which space compressed, so the distance between both ends of the tube would be very short, or non-existant on the inside, while at the same time, on the outside, the tube would be, say, about 100m long or so. Then Sabrina, standing close to one end of the tube, could somehow be considered to be also standing very close to the other end, which would expand her range.

Could this work? I don't know. Can we even warp space like that? Who knows.

 

[CompassJimbo]

So we're starting back up with the necromancy again? First we think of seeing if Sabrina's Soul Gem can be used to control other people, and we're once again considering finding a way to make witches human again (or at least, human to some extant). Why am I getting the feeling that this is gonna end horribly?

 

[defenestrator]

There was a mention of attempting this by using grief to warp space.

I guess it would work by making grief tubes inside of which space compressed, so the distance between both ends of the tube would be very short, or non-existant on the inside, while at the same time, on the outside, the tube would be, say, about 100m long or so. Then Sabrina, standing close to one end of the tube, could somehow be considered to be also standing very close to the other end, which would expand her range.

Could this work? I don't know. Can we even warp space like that? Who knows.

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Maybe we don't really need to warp space to create a grief pipeline? Maybe agrief marble/unit just needs an extra healthy dose of our 'will' imparted to it and some magic thrown in. It's a lot of guess work, yes, but it allows us to surpass one of our hard limits so I think it's definitely worth the extra effort.

 

[MrLZRS]

[X] Cannongerbil

 

[Krecart]

Probably a bad idea without testing if our gem wrests control of grief like a seed does.

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I think it's a bad idea because it involves putting 10 Seeds worth of Grief inside of our soul.

If you want to test our control of Grief inside of our Gem, start with Way Way Less than that. Like, a couple marbles worth or something.

 

[Random832]

Plus if we can compress that much grief down to the size of a sand grain, why not just keep it in our pockets like that?

Then we can attack our enemies with pocket sand.

 

[Onmur]

Plus if we can compress that much grief down to the size of a sand grain, why not just keep it in our pockets like that?

Then we can attack our enemies with pocket sand.

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'Cause we'd ping all the witch radars like that.

 

['Lement]

@Krecart: Hahaha. That's what testing means

And honestly, with the paranoia about Kirika turning on us, I don't think people would do it even if it was possible.It's just a fun little idea

Plus if we can compress that much grief down to the size of a sand grain, why not just keep it in our pockets like that?

Then we can attack our enemies with pocket sand.

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Still feels like as much witchy as that much grief..

 

[Kinematics]

Somebody run a word count on this, I think we might have broken Dungbeetle's record for the longest vote ever proposed in PMAS.

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Meh, I don't think it's even as long as the Don Sabrina vote.. Nope. 289 here, 515 in Don Sabrina, and Don Sabrina was a baby chick compared to Dungbeetle's monster proposals (by like an order of magnitude or more).

This vote is basically Kine's first half, only stripped down to a manageable length. Seriously, that thing was longer than some story updates, and almost half the lines could've been discarded without impacting the experiment.

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Well, part of that was for it be understandable to the people reading the vote as to what the point of each stage was. Still, compressing it doesn't do any harm now, and what you have is pretty clean. I'll update mine with this version.

[x] Find out what happens when grief outside our control is allowed to coalesce in sufficient quantities.
-[x] If it's possible to release our hold on grief that is still within our range, then do this inside our range so we can regain control if anything goes catastrophic. Otherwise, move grief to the edge of our range and be ready to quickly move closer if necessary.
--[x] Begin by releasing small amounts of grief at a time and increase until it's dense enough to do something

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I've been uncomfortable with this experiment since it was proposed. Mainly that there's no direction to it (ie: you're not testing for anything specific, just looking for 'something'), and partly because there's no 'end' to the test — it's just, "keep releasing grief until it does something", with the potential of this being outside the range of our control, and the likelihood of it simply dispersing and us being unable to recover it.

 

[Onmur]

I've been uncomfortable with this experiment since it was proposed. Mainly that there's no direction to it (ie: you're not testing for anything specific, just looking for 'something'), and partly because there's no 'end' to the test — it's just, "keep releasing grief until it does something", with the potential of this being outside the range of our control, and the likelihood of it simply dispersing and us being unable to recover it.

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As long as the dispersed grief doesn't actually do anything, it doesn't matter if we can't recover it.

About ending the experiment. Set a maximum amount of grief we want to try using? Trust Sabrina to stop when it starts looking dangerous?

 

['Lement]

As long as the dispersed grief doesn't actually do anything, it doesn't matter if we can't recover it.

About ending the experiment. Set a maximum amount of grief we want to try using? Trust Sabrina to stop when it starts looking dangerous?

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We want it to look dangerous. Then it is doing something.

And doesn't take so long, if you start with basketball and double every time. Exponential increase runs out pretty fast.

If there is anything else we want to do with large amounts of grief, like shielding for energy conversion/lasers/electricity, it'd be kind of shame to toss away now though.

 

[Kinematics]

Have updated my vote with Cannon's trimmed down version of the first experiment. Also added the first half of Mura's examination ideas, and removed the time expansion test due to safety concerns.

All of the stuff in mine should be doable in maybe 30-45 minutes, putting us close to 11:00. I assume lunch isn't til noon? Might have time for a bit more enchantment practice (might have a better chance at this if we give it some direction, the way we're doing with the grief testing).

As long as the dispersed grief doesn't actually do anything, it doesn't matter if we can't recover it.

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There's a difference between it not doing anything useful for our purposes, and it not doing anything at all. I suppose the dangers are relatively low given our location, though.

Also, the manner in which we'd want to test it might differ based on the results of the first tests of grief outside our control range.

 

[Muramasa]

[x] Kinematics