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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Muramasa said:
Magic is largely instinctual to begin with. And I see nothing wrong with atleast attempting it.
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How does magic being instinctive change the fact that we have no idea what a ring of regeneration would accomplish its regenerative properties beyond "magic"? Seriously, you are smarter than this, you should know why giving grief vague instructions to turn into something that helps heal people is a bad idea.

It's the same issue with wishing for world peace. It could have the desired result, or it could lobotomise everyone or even just wipe the planet free of life, because all of them technically accomplishes the same goal. The same principle exists here, the grief could turn into a literal ring of regeneration, a glowing green ring, give everyone in a fifty meter radius cancer, create grief mutants, or anything in between.

Krecart said:
We should still try to do it. We don't know we can't until we try.
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Et tu, Dirt?
 
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@Cannongerbil Think you're being paranoid dude. If we tell it to be a ring that fixes injuries why would it do anything else? Our control has thus far proven absolute.
 
Ugolino said:
There's a difference between affecting light and "make something that can generally heal meguca"- it's the same reason I don't think we can pull a timestop.
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We might not be able to pull a timestop, but if witches can pull a space-warp, then we should be able to use a barrier-like area to slow time. e: in fact, this can be added directly to @Kinematics 's space warp experiment using the same experimental methodology.
 
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Cannongerbil said:
How does magic being instinctive change the fact that we have no idea what a ring of regeneration would accomplish its regenerative properties beyond "magic"? Seriously, you are smarter than this, you should know why giving grief vague instructions to turn into something that helps heal people is a bad idea.

It's the same issue with wishing for world peace. It could have the desired result, or it could lobotomise everyone or even just wipe the planet free of life, because all of them technically accomplishes the same goal. The same principle exists here, the grief could turn into a literal ring of regeneration, a glowing green ring, give everyone in a fifty meter radius cancer, create grief mutants, or anything in between.


Et tu, Dirt?
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...That's not dirt, but anyway, I do think that making grief into magical objects is probably a little optimistic, and it doesn't quite make sense (giving it magical properties seems a little too much to me). That said, there's no reason we couldn't test it on ourselves, or on a rat.
 
Krecart said:
@Cannongerbil Think you're being paranoid dude. If we tell it to be a ring that fixes injuries why would it do anything else? Our control has thus far proven absolute.
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Because we have no idea of what mechanism it's going to use to fix injuries? It's not like we have magical rays that heal people in the real world, we are telling one form of magic to imitate another form of magic, and hoping that it will magically accomplish what we want.
 
Firnagzen said:
"Ah, I'm in math class," Mami replies. "Miss Sakaguchi's teaching us integration by parts today!"
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Somewhat off topic but has no one mentioned this yet?

Sure, this isn't the most complex math that's shown in the 'doka verse in Mitikihara (or however you spell that) High Middle but dang. What kind of insane learning curve is their math program tailored for? :o

EDIT: un-accidentally the double copy paste
 
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Cannongerbil said:
How does magic being instinctive change the fact that we have no idea what a ring of regeneration would accomplish its regenerative properties beyond "magic"? Seriously, you are smarter than this, you should know why giving grief vague instructions to turn into something that helps heal people is a bad idea.

It's the same issue with wishing for world peace. It could have the desired result, or it could lobotomise everyone or even just wipe the planet free of life, because all of them technically accomplishes the same goal. The same principle exists here, the grief could turn into a literal ring of regeneration, a glowing green ring, give everyone in a fifty meter radius cancer, create grief mutants, or anything in between.
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...I have never seen you fall that hard into shadowruns. Anyway what you're worried about goes well against what we know of both Magic and Grief. There is no reason to believe the ring wouldn't do what we want it to do. And it's something that's worth a test, if not immediately on regeneration.
 
In terms of healing: What about prosthetic Grief constructs that we layer over wounds? They replace people's bodies with solidified, transmuted despair-made-flesh as they fight, and against a sufficiently powerful enemy, could end up with body more or less entirely made of transmuted Grief!
As a result, they'd probably be considered a Witch by whoever the meet.
But whatever.
 
Hypothetical:

The soul gem contains the soul of a meguca. We also presume that the grief seed does as well. In other words, the souls is inside two nested containers.

When we do magic, we generate grief. This is presumably a product of the contained grief seed, which implies that doing magic is actually a function of the contained grief seed. That means that the soul gem is just... 'filler', a buffer to prevent the grief seed from losing itself and turning into a witch — a magical girl insane with grief.

That means that, to rebuild the magical girl from the grief seed, we need to create a new outer buffer.

That outer buffer appears to be the quantity of 'hope' that the magical girl holds onto. They become a witch when they lose all hope. Is it possible to 'regrow' that hope?

Note that we remove grief to cleanse, we do not add hope/magic. That hope is thus presumed just sort of always be there; a fixed constant, and a representation of the girl's wish.

Is Hildegarde, with neither grief nor hope, stuck in an endless state of apathy?

How would one recreate that outer shell? Perhaps being brought back into proximity of their original wish? The thing that was their hope in the first place?
 
Muramasa said:
...I have never seen you fall that hard into shadowruns. Anyway what you're worried about goes well against what we know of both Magic and Grief. There is no reason to believe the ring wouldn't do what we want it to do. And it's something that's worth a test, if not immediately on regeneration.
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General "regeneration" is likely to just not work, though.

Kinematics said:
Hypothetical:

The soul gem contains the soul of a meguca. We also presume that the grief seed does as well. In other words, the souls is inside two nested containers.

When we do magic, we generate grief. This is presumably a product of the contained grief seed, which implies that doing magic is actually a function of the contained grief seed. That means that the soul gem is just... 'filler', a buffer to prevent the grief seed from losing itself and turning into a witch — a magical girl insane with grief.

That means that, to rebuild the magical girl from the grief seed, we need to create a new outer buffer.

That outer buffer appears to be the quantity of 'hope' that the magical girl holds onto. They become a witch when they lose all hope. Is it possible to 'regrow' that hope?

Note that we remove grief to cleanse, we do not add hope/magic. That hope is thus presumed just sort of always be there; a fixed constant, and a representation of the girl's wish.

Is Hildegarde, with neither grief nor hope, stuck in an endless state of apathy?

How would one recreate that outer shell? Perhaps being brought back into proximity of their original wish? The thing that was their hope in the first place?
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Is "hope" actually a thing for meguca or just the absence of despair? We know that despair is inherent, but other than Madoka, we don't actually see hope as a thing.
 
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techsy730 said:
Somewhat off topic but has no one mentioned this yet?

Sure, this isn't the most complex math that's shoen in the 'doka verse it Mitikihara (or however you spell that) High, but dang. What kind of insane learning curve is their math program tailored for? omplex math that's shoen in the 'doka verse it Mitikihara (or however you spell that) High, but dang. What kind of insane learning curve is their math program tailored for? :o
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Mitakihara Middle School, actually.
 
Kinematics said:
Hypothetical:

The soul gem contains the soul of a meguca. We also presume that the grief seed does as well. In other words, the souls is inside two nested containers.

When we do magic, we generate grief. This is presumably a product of the contained grief seed, which implies that doing magic is actually a function of the contained grief seed. That means that the soul gem is just... 'filler', a buffer to prevent the grief seed from losing itself and turning into a witch — a magical girl insane with grief.

That means that, to rebuild the magical girl from the grief seed, we need to create a new outer buffer.

That outer buffer appears to be the quantity of 'hope' that the magical girl holds onto. They become a witch when they lose all hope. Is it possible to 'regrow' that hope?

Note that we remove grief to cleanse, we do not add hope/magic. That hope is thus presumed just sort of always be there; a fixed constant, and a representation of the girl's wish.

Is Hildegarde, with neither grief nor hope, stuck in an endless state of apathy?

How would one recreate that outer shell? Perhaps being brought back into proximity of their original wish? The thing that was their hope in the first place?
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The problem with this hypothesis, is we have absolutely zero evidence that "hope" is a thing other than conjecture.

Grief and Magic definitely seem like opposites. If you want to call Magic "hope", sure, but the name has connotations it hasn't demonstrated.

e: neither is there definite evidence that the grief seed breaks out of the soul gem rather than simply reforming it
 
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techsy730 said:
Sure, this isn't the most complex math that's shown in the 'doka verse in Mitikihara (or however you spell that) High, but dang. What kind of insane learning curve is their math program tailored for? omplex math that's shoen in the 'doka verse it Mitikihara (or however you spell that) High, but dang. What kind of insane learning curve is their math program tailored for?
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Firnagzen said:
Mmm.
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And Mami's a year up from them, so.
 
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Ugolino said:
Is "hope" actually a thing for meguca or just the absence of despair? We know that despair is inherent, but other than Madoka, we don't actually see hope as a thing.
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Hope and despair are supposed to balance out. You can't really balance out if there's nothing on one side of the scales.

Unless you just consider despair the negative axis of some unnamed concept, in which case calling it 'hope' and 'despair' is really just saying which direction you're going on that axis, and 'balancing out' is returning to 0. However that's really hard to conceptualize in conjunction with the 'physical' nature of grief.
 
Kinematics said:
Unless you just consider despair the negative axis of some unnamed concept, in which case calling it 'hope' and 'despair' is really just saying which direction you're going on that axis, and 'balancing out' is returning to 0. However that's really hard to conceptualize in conjunction with the 'physical' nature of grief.
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Karma. As in Karmic balance, Karmic potential. Kyubey referred to it explicitly.
 
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