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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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AuraTwilight said:
...Oh my god befriending Dedolere is how we overcome our range limit isn't it.
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I mean, we already have methods to overcome our range limits: Everything we've seen about our magic, from enchantment, to pushing it into Mami's ribbons, to magic constructs, show that it can have effects outside our range quite easily. In fact, it seems like raw, unenchanted grief is the only thing that can't. So it seems that beating our range is a simple matter of figuring out how to use our magic to do so.
 
The Phoenixian said:
I mean, we already have methods to overcome our range limits: Everything we've seen about our magic, from enchantment, to pushing it into Mami's ribbons, to magic constructs, show that it can have effects outside our range quite easily. In fact, it seems like raw, unenchanted grief is the only thing that can't. So it seems that beating our range is a simple matter of figuring out how to use our magic to do so.
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you are very wrong about that
cause the only way we have found to go outside our range is
1) nonmagical effects of grief lime light and sound can exit our range
2) if we are in contact with another magical girls construct we can project grief through it but we cant lose contact with the medium we are using
3) unhacked enchanted grief can leave our control range but we cant control it unless it returns

so we really dont have a way of manipulating things outside of the hundred meter range
 
Trying to do a model based on this image (see spoiler), which was posted by @Godwinson a few days ago. Can't quite figure out the geometry of the crystal at the top of the soul gem – from outside in, I'm reading it as flat, toward-camera, ???. Table cut doesn't make sense, with the lines meeting in the middle. A hollow just seems weird. Or is that supposed to be the back of the stone, visible through the front? The badge version doesn't have the extra lines (but then, it's also proportioned slightly differently).

Also, is there an explicit statement anywhere of what Sabrina's Soul Gem looks like in expanded gem form, or is that drawing just extrapolation from the SV logo (and not sure where the diamond part came from)? I mean, I like the diamond design, but given that I can't tell from the drawing I'd like to either be sure of what it's meant to look like, or know that it's unset.

 
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Firnagzen was repeatedly consulted while that reference drawing was made - to the best of my knowledge, the drawing is a canonical source in and of itself for Sabrina's appearance, even if it contains details that weren't mentioned in any of the updates.
 
soulsguardian said:
you are very wrong about that
cause the only way we have found to go outside our range is
1) nonmagical effects of grief lime light and sound can exit our range
2) if we are in contact with another magical girls construct we can project grief through it but we cant lose contact with the medium we are using
3) unhacked enchanted grief can leave our control range but we cant control it unless it returns

so we really dont have a way of manipulating things outside of the hundred meter range
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Please reconsider:

When we enchanted grief, it remained existent and did not dissolve when it was outside our range. It lost shape, but that was a an effect we had forced on it with our will, rather than enchanted it with.

When we were in contact with Mami, we were pushing magic into her ribbons. So long as the magic was there being pushed in, the effect was active.

Lastly, when we formed wings out of magic rather than grief, they locked on to a spot in Mitakihara, a target well outside our range, where our attempts at tracking devices before had failed at the 100 meter mark.

Between all of these one factor remains: Magic effects are not bound by our range limits, nor is grief in contact with our magic.

This is what I mean when I say we have methods to bypass our limits.

We have not explored those methods, but they do exist.
 
It's actually rather strange. No other magic that we know of runs into the 100m hard range limit, except for soul-gem disconnection. Our grief range is measured from our soul gem, and our sense of it is purely proprioception. It's almost as though grief was being treated as if it was part of our body. Which, sure, that can be a thing, grief only exists within a soul or a witch and her barrier, but...
Firnagzen said:
You keep one of the spikes going straight up, observing it as it continues upawards. As it leaves your sphere of influence, it dissipates, thinning out into the air - but not before a moment of coherence, where it seems to try to shift... It's there and gone in a flash, though. Perhaps something to be investigated later.
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...if that was the case, why does it seem to try to stay together? If grief outside a soul/witch dissipates, what has it trying to stick together and change into something else?
 
Ok, I got a reply from Sabrina!



Kamihama is the city that the Magia Record Madoka spinoff takes place in. I didn't really mean to force Firn's hand here about confirming or denying exactly how much of Magireco is canon to PMAS (assuming this is even him and not some rando who snagged the name). I assumed that even if literally none of the Magia Record girls existed the city itself would still exist. Or alternatively some of the girls could be canon (eg Yachiyo, Hinano and (gulp) Alina) without any of the events of the Magia Record plot like the Wings of Magius happening. I chose it primarily because I lack a solid mental image of where Mitakihara is in relation to real Japanese cities but I knew that Kamihama is close enough for the Mitakihara group to visit since they do so in the Magia Record plot.

So how to we proceed from here? I'm not particularly inclined to force the issue.
 
blast flame said:
Ok, I got a reply from Sabrina!



Kamihama is the city that the Magia Record Madoka spinoff takes place in. I didn't really mean to force Firn's hand here about confirming or denying exactly how much of Magireco is canon to PMAS (assuming this is even him and not some rando who snagged the name). I assumed that even if literally none of the Magia Record girls existed the city itself would still exist. Or alternatively some of the girls could be canon (eg Yachiyo, Hinano and (gulp) Alina) without any of the events of the Magia Record plot like the Wings of Magius happening. I chose it primarily because I lack a solid mental image of where Mitakihara is in relation to real Japanese cities but I knew that Kamihama is close enough for the Mitakihara group to visit since they do so in the Magia Record plot.

So how to we proceed from here? I'm not particularly inclined to force the issue.
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...we're about to get some mic feedback, aren't we.
 
blast flame said:
So how to we proceed from here? I'm not particularly inclined to force the issue.
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I think we mostly just keep assume that anything sourced from MagiReco is going to be very questionable as PMAS canon. (IIRC Firn's words from the times he's spoken on the subject were to the effect that characterization was most likely to be canonized and everything else was less likely.)

This isn't too exciting news anyways: Firn had mentioned a while back when the discord was still a thing that he was leaning towards declaring Kamihama non-canon, and this lines up with that.
 
The Phoenixian said:
I think we mostly just keep assume that anything sourced from MagiReco is going to be very questionable as PMAS canon. (IIRC Firn's words from the times he's spoken on the subject were to the effect that characterization was most likely to be canonized and everything else was less likely.)

This isn't too exciting news anyways: Firn had mentioned a while back when the discord was still a thing that he was leaning towards declaring Kamihama non-canon, and this lines up with that.
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I meant like, what does the thread want me to reply to the email?
 
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Canonicity of MagiReco
  • Informational
    • Qwertystop said:
    Trying to do a model based on this image (see spoiler), which was posted by @Godwinson a few days ago. Can't quite figure out the geometry of the crystal at the top of the soul gem – from outside in, I'm reading it as flat, toward-camera, ???. Table cut doesn't make sense, with the lines meeting in the middle. A hollow just seems weird. Or is that supposed to be the back of the stone, visible through the front? The badge version doesn't have the extra lines (but then, it's also proportioned slightly differently).

    Also, is there an explicit statement anywhere of what Sabrina's Soul Gem looks like in expanded gem form, or is that drawing just extrapolation from the SV logo (and not sure where the diamond part came from)? I mean, I like the diamond design, but given that I can't tell from the drawing I'd like to either be sure of what it's meant to look like, or know that it's unset.

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    Redshirt Army said:
    Firnagzen was repeatedly consulted while that reference drawing was made - to the best of my knowledge, the drawing is a canonical source in and of itself for Sabrina's appearance, even if it contains details that weren't mentioned in any of the updates.
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    Yep, that's pretty much the canonical character sheet for Sabrina. The Soul Gem tip is more like the badge form - the badge form is a truncated rhombic pyramid, the Gem form is two of those attached together at the base.

    Though anyway, yes - I'm calling Kamihama off-canon in the same way Homura Tamura is. The events didn't happen as I can't square them up, the characterizations are mostly canon (I reserve the rights to veto parts, as I see it. Like Nagisa's backstory in MagiReco; what the hell is up with that?) and the abilities/reveals about magic are... well, ask me before assuming anything from MagiReco counts.
     
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    • Firnagzen said:
    Yep, that's pretty much the canonical character sheet for Sabrina. The Soul Gem tip is more like the badge form - the badge form is a truncated rhombic pyramid, the Gem form is two of those attached together at the base.

    Though anyway, yes - I'm calling Kamihama off-canon in the same way Homura Tamura is. The events didn't happen as I can't square them up, the characterizations are mostly canon (I reserve the rights to veto parts, as I see it. Like Nagisa's backstory in MagiReco; what the hell is up with that?) and the abilities/reveals about magic are... well, ask me before assuming anything from MagiReco counts.
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    Ok, I'll try to keep it ambiguous as to whether Kamihara exists in my email response so you still have the freedom to decide it is canon later.
     
    I mean, Magia Record is basically canonically non-canon. The whole point is that it's a unique timeline (or record, heh, geddit?) that doesn't connect to the overall Madoka Magica -> Wraith Arc -> Rebellion progression. That's why it's possible for Walpurgis to be defeated and Moemura to win, despite Madokami being a thing.

    So yeah, it's literally impossible for the events of Magia Record to occur in PMAS, or even have ever occurred in any of Homura's past timelines. A few of the characters are noted to be unique to that timeline and are thus absolutely cannot appear in PMAS either, and the rest are subject to the usual Firnagzen touchup for side-materials. (See also the Pleiades.)
     
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    Redshirt Army said:
    I mean, Magia Record is basically canonically non-canon. The whole point is that it's a unique timeline (or record, heh, geddit?) that doesn't connect to the overall Madoka Magica -> Wraith Arc -> Rebellion progression. That's why it's possible for Walpurgis to be defeated and Moemura to win, despite Madokami being a thing.

    So yeah, it's literally impossible for the events of Magia Record to occur in PMAS, or even have ever occurred in any of Homura's past timelines. A few of the characters are noted to be unique to that timeline and are thus absolutely cannot appear in PMAS either, and the rest are subject to the usual Firnagzen touchup for side-materials. (See also the Pleiades.)
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    I wasn't so much surprised by not being in the Magia Record universe so much as how little of Magia Record appeared to be canon. As I said I expected at least the city to still be a thing. Maybe getting a reply from Sabrina along the lines of "I probably won't be able to get to Kamihama for a while unless there's a crisis, I have a lot on my plate at the moment. Though if you're willing to travel to Mitakihara I might be able to assist you."
     
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