Which is too bad because I see Mami's antics as both sadly saccharine AND repulsive/annoying and I want to get rid of the problem ASAP.
Guess patience is what it takes to deal with mentally damaged people. :(
We do need to be patient, true, and her behaviors are sad, since they show how afraid she is, but I wouldn't call them repulsive or annoying. Sabrina quite likes Mami, it's not so much annoying or repulsive as it is just sad, since Sabrina doesn't like Mumisads.
 
We do need to be patient, true, and her behaviors are sad, since they show how afraid she is, but I wouldn't call them repulsive or annoying. Sabrina quite likes Mami, it's not so much annoying or repulsive as it is just sad, since Sabrina doesn't like Mumisads.
Mami acting like that's just a sign that we failed, at least in the short term, in one of our basic goals: to make things better for her and the other guas, and to make the Mitakihara group in particular happy and trauma-free. At least as I see it, Sabrina sees all of the Mitakihara girls and most gucas in general as good, likeable people, or at least with some redeeming factors, that are in a world that'll chew them up and spit them out- and doesn't like that idea one bit.

Empathy rather than annoyance...especially since this was our fault. This was entirely on us, even if it was done with the intent of damage control and is probably better in the long run. The least we need to do is help undo the harm we caused.

As for Mami in particular, I'd say making her happy's become one of the character's driving goals at this point.
 
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@Gadjo
No, Sabrina has a (very) tiny bit of annoyance at Mami.
Why?
Because I do, and thats how it works. Of course, there are so many other people here that the feeling is almost insignificantly small.

...
Or, in other words, I was talking about my feelings, not "Sabrina's".
 
We do need to be patient, true, and her behaviors are sad, since they show how afraid she is, but I wouldn't call them repulsive or annoying. Sabrina quite likes Mami, it's not so much annoying or repulsive as it is just sad, since Sabrina doesn't like Mumisads.

It actually is a little irritating. Sabrina just happens to be very understanding, empathetic, and knowledgeable of her history. In the end whether or not it's slightly irritating is irrelevant, because Mami is our BFF who needs help, so we help her and be understanding and patient.

As for Mami in particular, I'd say making her happy's become one of the character's driving goals at this point.

Well, technically, everyone's happiness is the character's driving point. One of the consequences of being Heroic Good.:p

Speaking of which, are we ever going to do anything about Akiko provided that she doesn't snap out of it any time soon?

[X] Muramasa
 
Speaking of which, are we ever going to do anything about Akiko provided that she doesn't snap out of it any time soon?

I want to recommend to Rin that she get Akiko to see a doctor, if she hasn't already. It's possible this particular problem can be medicated.

EDIT: And the reason I say this is by googling catatonia and cross-referencing several sources. This is a medically treatable condition.
 
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@Gadjo
No, Sabrina has a (very) tiny bit of annoyance at Mami.
Why?
Because I do, and thats how it works. Of course, there are so many other people here that the feeling is almost insignificantly small.

...
Or, in other words, I was talking about my feelings, not "Sabrina's".
I'd ask why you would feel revulsion and annoyance over someone having abandonment issues with what has become her only friend because she was left with no one except for a manipulative psychopath from outer space for a friend for years, but I think I'll just cut the argument short and say that given the vast amount of the thread that disagrees with you, I'd say that's not a thing that Sabrina feels. She doesn't believe or feel everything that is expressed, just things that get some amount of affirmation from the rest of the thread.
 
@Gadjo
No, Sabrina has a (very) tiny bit of annoyance at Mami.
Why?
Because I do, and thats how it works. Of course, there are so many other people here that the feeling is almost insignificantly small.

...
Or, in other words, I was talking about my feelings, not "Sabrina's".
For the most part, though, thanks to the way it works, the character cares about Mami's mental state for its own sake and wants to help her.

It actually is a little irritating. Sabrina just happens to be very understanding, empathetic, and knowledgeable of her history. In the end whether or not it's slightly irritating is irrelevant, because Mami is our BFF who needs help, so we help her and be understanding and patient.



Well, technically, everyone's happiness is the character's driving point. One of the consequences of being Heroic Good.:p

Speaking of which, are we ever going to do anything about Akiko provided that she doesn't snap out of it any time soon?

[X] Muramasa
Well, yeah, but it's a question of emphasis and reacting with pity rather than contempt since her reaction is a)very much understandable given what we know about her, b)largely our fault in this case and something we need to make up for. Breaking Mami's the closest we've come to an outright failure or setback in 1800 pages of questing.

Akiko's a problem for the near future, but she'll keep for a while. That's one reason we're checking in so regularly with Sendai, and keeping an eye out for that magical empath.
 
She doesn't believe or feel everything that is expressed, just things that get some amount of affirmation from the rest of the thread.
Eh, dunno, I can't remember if Firn gives more details somewhere in the next 1799 pages, but on the first page he only says that her mind is a blank state defined by the thread. Now, you can have multiple, conflicting feelings, as far as I know.
Just a nitpick, though, Ugo is right, it doesn't matter anyway.
 
I'd ask why you would feel revulsion and annoyance over someone having abandonment issues with what has become her only friend because she was left with no one except for a manipulative psychopath from outer space for a friend for years, but I think I'll just cut the argument short and say that given the vast amount of the thread that disagrees with you, I'd say that's not a thing that Sabrina feels. She doesn't believe or feel everything that is expressed, just things that get some amount of affirmation from the rest of the thread.

Well, it's not really that surprising at least one person feels that way. Not everyone can deal with that type of behavior for what feels like weeks and be completely free of annoyance or irritation. Anyway, like I said, it's irrelevant. I seriously doubt that anyone here has any desire to actually treat Mami with anything less than complete understanding and patience.
 
I want to recommend to Rin that she get Akiko to see a doctor, if she hasn't already. It's possible this particular problem can be medicated.

EDIT: And the reason I say this is by googling catatonia and cross-referencing several sources. This is a medically treatable condition.
Um. I'd like to point out that catatonia is an improvement over Akiko's previous condition. We need to fix the underlying problems, otherwise she's just going to go back to being uncooperative, secretive, greedy, and homicidal. Her actions directly resulted in the deaths of three innocent people already and it would have been much worse without our intervention.
 
Um. I'd like to point out that catatonia is an improvement over Akiko's previous condition. We need to fix the underlying problems, otherwise she's just going to go back to being uncooperative, secretive, greedy, and homicidal. Her actions directly resulted in the deaths of three innocent people already and it would have been much worse without our intervention.

It's understood by Sendai that they're responsible for keeping Akiko under control. This was obvious during the final negotiation. But regardless, the first step in understanding what the underlying problems even are is getting her to a point where she can be communicated with.

I'm not going to argue morals, but I'll just say that I disagree with much of your assessment of Akiko as presented.
 
We need to try and help Akiko too, if only for Rin's sake and the stability of the groups.
Stability was a poor word choice. Akiko is largely a source of instability. And more people would be happier to see her gone then vice versa. But as much as I dislike her and most of her group, yeah we have to attempt rehabilitation. Joy.
 
Just working on deconstructing our Science! ideas into a vote outline for next vote or votes, given the constraints we're operating under today. This is not really a vote suggestion but more like a bloated, horrible, word-salad-vomit of a "everything that might be useful", so we have a starting point or something to edit down later.

I think we have 2 to 2.5 hours, depending on travel time and if we get to kill a witch on the way. I'd say 2/3 of that time on dewitching, 1/3 on grief projects. There are time-consuming activities on the dewitching project where we can multitask though, so we should take advantage.

[] General: Set the Lunch Alarm. Use grief-sense constantly for each action item, so we can observe reactions of magical nature and how our magic interacts with the seed. Cleanse ourselves immediately as we accumulate corruption.
[] Pull out our soul gem and observe Dedolere in grief-sense. Compare and contrast to each seed we have on hand and to what we remember of active seeds if we aren't carrying one, and deactivated soul gems.
[] Use the method to revive a MG from unconciousness on Hildegard. Care not to damage the seed.
[] Attempt to heal Hildegard. It's possible we get insinctive feedback that this is not possible, in which case stop and move on. If no feedback or if positive feedback / interesting grief-sense observations, spend half an hour healing. Care not to damage the seed.
-[] Multitasking: While healing, attempt the following grief-constructs. Simply attempt to form each to check if they're possible. Those successful we'll have to test for functionality later.
--[] List: An item that remotely views a location (crystal ball?). An item that lists the information requested of it (book?). A compass that points as we specify it (nearest witch, named MG, specified item, etc). An item that blocks mental influence on its wearer. A set of items that lets the wearers communicate mentally. An item that allows the user to communicate with the souls in inactive grief seeds or soul gems. An item that converts grief seeds into soul gems. An item that automagically draws grief out of soul gems and stores it as marbles. An item that does the same but only upon touching a gem or seed.
[] Create a grief-body. If one can be based upon the seed/soul, do so; a grief-device might be necessary. If not, just a generic functional body. If we can get one that we think might be close to the girl's original simply try touching the seed to it first.
-[] Attempt to connect the seed to the body via magic. We once believed we could brute force kickstart a soul gem into retaking a body. Same idea. Stop if there's any indication this might harm the seed.

Reasoning:
- First, the soul gem is the ur-example of what we're trying to accomplish. I want to know in what ways the soul is active, as compared to in what ways the soul is active in a witch seed. The differences are things we have to change.
- Poke & healing are our best immediate payoff ideas.
- Multitasking I'm going with "can we make X" only, because past Science! has proven that either we can make X and X gets made instantly, or we can't and nothing happens. This kind of yes/no testing can easily be done in the background and doesn't require the attention of our specialized senses. The successful ideas we can verify once our attention is available. Yes, there are lot of items in the list that are probably impossible, but we'd kick ourselves so hard if we could make "an item that converts grief seeds into soul gems" and we found out after doing it the hard way.
- I'm just guessing on the body thing, honestly, but the idea's come up from others too.

[] Grief manipulation section:
-[] Range / Persistence:
--[] Working from the theory that enchanted objects last as long as their magic source does, attempt to imbue a grief object with a magical source that will maintain it when it passes from our direct control. Leave range, observe from distance, return, check on it up close. Since we can see magic, we should be able to see if the magical reserve was successfully placed before testing if it works.
-[] Barrier:
--[]Based on our observations of the barrier on Monday evening, attempt to create our own barrier. Manipulate the inside space until we believe it safe to enter. Send an item inside and out again, by carrying with grief. If that was safe, then enter and exit while flying and confirm safety.
--[] If we have it working, then from the outside, test moving the entrance, expanding and shrinking the barrier, creating grief-objects within, imbuing the barrier with special properties, expanding the space larger than our normal range limits, making distances inside the space correspond to and deviate from distances in the real world, making multiple entrances to the same barrier.
--[] (THIS IS PROBABLY NOT SAFE? Need an idea on how to test.) Test dismissing the barrier while non-grief objects are inside. Test dismissing the barrier while we are inside.
-[] Marginally Useful Assorted:
--[] For the objects that were successful during Multitasking, test those we can test to see in what ways they're limited. If Multitasking didn't happen, make the objects listed now.
--[] Attempt grief properties that would have been disruptive earlier. Selective antimagic fields. Selective attractive and repulsive forces.

Reasoning:
- Barrier experiments we've been meaning to get to for a while. Would be nice if someone else comes up with better though, I'm not very keen on the barrier experiment and it shows.
- Range is based on a re-reading of Mami's enchantment tutorial. Are there other ideas on how to bypass our range restriction?
- Marginally Useful is basically +combat and +utility.

[] If time remains, practice enchantment.

Reasoning:
- Enchantment skill is what we need if the 'modify or insert magic into the seed' hypothesis is correct.
 
Stability was a poor word choice. Akiko is largely a source of instability. And more people would be happier to see her gone then vice versa. But as much as I dislike her and most of her group, yeah we have to attempt rehabilitation. Joy.
Akiko in a coma is an unknown and a probable time bomb. A fixed, cooperative Akiko makes for a situation we can safely put out of mind...and her group was largely in denial even if they were complicit.
 
Akiko in a coma is an unknown and a probable time bomb. A fixed, cooperative Akiko makes for a situation we can safely put out of mind...and her group was largely in denial even if they were complicit.
Eh. I don't think we can truly fix Akiko without resolving what really happened to Kato Setsuko. As for her teammates... that is no excuse for the shit they pulled.
 
We'll need to have a lengthy talk with the Ishinomaki girls if we want to know what really happened to Kato. Maybe other independent meguca too, so we can reconstruct her last days before she 'died' or went missing. Problem is that independent meguca have a high 'turnover' rate, and it's been more than a year since then.

There's a very high chance that Kato's been a seed for awhile now and fed handed over to an incubator :(
 
We'll need to have a lengthy talk with the Ishinomaki girls if we want to know what really happened to Kato. Maybe other independent meguca too, so we can reconstruct her last days before she 'died' or went missing. Problem is that independent meguca have a high 'turnover' rate, and it's been more than a year since then.

There's a very high chance that Kato's been a seed for awhile now and fed handed over to an incubator :(
The Ishinomkai girls said that they last saw Kato, after they allowed her to hunt a witch. I don't think they know where she went.
I guess the only ones who might know for sure are Kato herself, if she is still alive and Akiko, depending on what she saw when she went out looking for Kato on her own. Maybe Oriko could find out more about Kato, if we can get a physical description or photo of her.
 
The Ishinomkai girls said that they last saw Kato, after they allowed her to hunt a witch. I don't think they know where she went.
I guess the only ones who might know for sure are Kato herself, if she is still alive and Akiko, depending on what she saw when she went out looking for Kato on her own. Maybe Oriko could find out more about Kato, if we can get a physical description or photo of her.
Since Oriko's schtick is precog, not postcog, I don't think she's gonna pick up anything on Kato unless she's still alive, and I share defenestrator's doubts about that.

Another possible source of information is Kyubey. He might be willing to give information for a Griefy snack, and I think the collective paranoia of the thread is up to the task of ferreting out the loopholes in any information he provides to us.
 
Oriko and Kirika, first meetings pt. I
I've been working on this for a few days. Firn liked it. Maybe you guys will.

Incidentally, the events within are canon. Ish. Assuming this venture goes well.



"Stand!"

Kirika Kure looked up from the book in her lap to see the rest of the class getting to their feet. She straightened up, enduring several glares from the other students, before the call of "Bow!" came and she lowered her head.

Shoving the pristine textbooks into her backpack, along with the copy of Crimson Lily Confession she'd wedged between the pages of Advanced Calculus, she walked out of the classroom, her eyes drifting to the floor as she tried to avoid eye contact.

After a few minutes of walking through glass hallways, she found herself outside and alone. She gave a slight shrug. It wasn't as if she liked the other students, but still, it would be nice to have someone to talk to.

Where did that thought come from?

Well… there was that other girl. That girl she'd met a week or so ago, the one in the store. She sure seemed like a nice person.

Well, sure, she hadn't really done much except help her pick up her change. But that was more than anyone else in the store had done. And it was the first time anyone had smiled at her in the better part of a month. And she was… well, pretty hot, if Kirika wanted to be honest.

The day it happened, she'd mulled it over the whole way back home. Her first instinct had been to ask the girl on a date, but she quashed that with some difficulty. It would just be weird, wouldn't it? What if the girl didn't remember her? Worse, what if she didn't swing that way? Sure, it always worked out in her manga, but this was real life. Not every girl liked other girls.

Eventually, Kirika had decided to just find her and ask her for her number. The first part had been easy; there weren't a lot of schools in the area with red uniforms. From there, all she had to do was wait outside Shirome for the girl to show up.

But when she'd walked up to the school gates, seen the girls in those red uniforms milling out, and caught a glimpse of sidetail… she felt her legs carrying her away. It wasn't that she didn't want to, she really did. But she knew there was no way that a girl who went to a school like Shirome would want to talk to someone like her, with a record of misdemeanors and a 22 on her last exam. And even if she could look beneath that, what would she see?

Just a shallow, angry girl with no friends.

Eventually, she tried again the next day… and the day after that… but every time, she lost her nerve. Every time, she would realize that confession was harder than it looked. Sometimes the girl would look cheerful, other times sad, and every time, she felt a profound need to find out why. Every time, she wanted to walk up to her, and ask her what had happened that day, and be asked in turn. And every time, she found her feet carrying her away again.
She sighed. Maybe today, she would…

"Excuse me?"

A voice came from behind her, a girl's voice, calm and polite. "Do you know where I can find Kirika Kure?"

Kirika smirked slightly, and turned. "Well, I'm not sure why you'd wanna look for heeeeeeeeee-"

Her dun-yellow eyes met sea-green ones. They traveled up and down the newcomer, picking out the silvery hair pulled into a sidetail, the small, almost vacant smile, the long legs, the slim shoulders, the voluptuous proportions… before traveling back to the eyes again.

Kirika was only vaguely aware of the "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" sound she had been making for a solid eight seconds. She felt that same warm feeling in her chest that she'd felt in the store. The girl, for her part, only smiled more broadly.

"When I meet Kirika Kure, I will tell her why I wish to see her. Until then…"

Kirika stuttered for a few seconds, then lowered her head. "Ah, um… that's me, I guess."

The girl's eyes showed not even a hint of surprise. Nonetheless, she gave a slight bow. "Pleasure to meet you, Miss Kure."

Kirika felt a smile creeping across her face, as the warmth in her chest intensified. She had a good feeling right now, and she pressed on, hopeful. "And? What's your name? I mean… I don't know if you remember this, but… we have met, right? And I've been wondering about it for a while."

This time, the girl's eyebrows raised noticeably. "Mikuni. Oriko Mikuni." Her eyes, once lazy and heavily-lidded, now seemed to be searching Kirika's face for signs of recognition.

Kirika, for her part, just smiled. "Great! I know your name now! Man, I've been wondering about it for, like, way too long."

Kirika wasn't the best at reading people, but she definitely saw Mikuni relax at those words. "What are you doing today, exactly?" the Shirome girl said, fixing Kirika with a curiously anticipatory gaze. "I ask, as I was… throwing a party, shall we say, for a special occasion, and I wanted to invite everyone who cared to come."

Kirika's big toothy grin was now entirely visible despite herself. "A-and you think I care?" she said, the words coming out in some strange combination of stuttering and rambling. "Because we've n-never really met, and I – I haven't been to a party in a while. I…" She tried to choose her words. "I'm not a good party guest." She could feel the heat as her face reddened – why would she introduce herself with that; just say yes!

Mikuni just nodded, looking vaguely bemused. "You have nothing much to worry about, trust me. It… isn't a very big party."

Kirika felt the redness fade. "Oh, uh... that's a good thing. I, uh... don't really like big parties. Well, I used to, but..." She shook her head again. "Well, when's it starting?"

"As soon as I get home," Mikuni said, looking down the street. "I've had something in the oven, so I'd like for us to hurry."

Kirika nodded, and walked unsteadily forward. "Well, okay, I mean, this means a lot to me, but - "

Mikuni shook her head. "Do you know where my home is?"

Kirika felt the blush return in force. "...No? I mean, I guess I probably should, I mean, if I'm going there, because what if I get lost or - "

"It's alright." Mikuni held out her hand, her face genuine and shining with energy. "You won't have to worry. I can lead you there. All you have to do is take my hand."

Kirika stretched out her own hand, her fingers twitching. Her legs felt like jelly. The warmth in her stomach and chest was replaced with coldness. She glanced at the road, at the school, at the nearby forest... and then, for the second time, her eyes met Oriko's.

She thrust her hand forward and gripped the other girl's.

Mikuni nodded. "Splendid. Now, let's go before it burns."
 
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