In the manga it implies that both witches and magical girls go to some sort of afterlife after death, even before Madokami (Sayaka and Kyoko have a little reunion after Kyoko kills them both) but that is of questionable canonicity due to some contradictions between the manga and anime.

I headcanoned those as post-Madokami epilogues, myself.

Hypothetical:

The soul gem contains the soul of a meguca. We also presume that the grief seed does as well. In other words, the souls is inside two nested containers.

When we do magic, we generate grief. This is presumably a product of the contained grief seed, which implies that doing magic is actually a function of the contained grief seed. That means that the soul gem is just... 'filler', a buffer to prevent the grief seed from losing itself and turning into a witch — a magical girl insane with grief.

That means that, to rebuild the magical girl from the grief seed, we need to create a new outer buffer.

That outer buffer appears to be the quantity of 'hope' that the magical girl holds onto. They become a witch when they lose all hope. Is it possible to 'regrow' that hope?

Note that we remove grief to cleanse, we do not add hope/magic. That hope is thus presumed just sort of always be there; a fixed constant, and a representation of the girl's wish.

Is Hildegarde, with neither grief nor hope, stuck in an endless state of apathy?

How would one recreate that outer shell? Perhaps being brought back into proximity of their original wish? The thing that was their hope in the first place?

MADOKA WISH TO BE A HOPE-BENDER FUCK YEAHRG.

We only have Sayaka's ramblings to base that on, though, and she was pretty much tripping on despair at the time.

Uh, Kyubey ALSO said it. Like, he was even paraphrasing it when Madokami was happening. Hope is totally a thing. It's PROBABLY Magic imo, but it might not be.

It's also possible that 'Magic' is just the applications of Hope and Grief; the two energies are just the fuel and the 'Magic' is applied Work.
 
I think the hope and despair thing is a bit too important to the themes of the story to dismiss out of hand-- and I'm almost certain Coobs referred to it directly at some point. Anyway, how can you people call yourselves SCIENTISTS if you're afraid to experiment? Tesla rolls in his grave, providing power for millions!
 
I headcanoned those as post-Madokami epilogues, myself.



MADOKA WISH TO BE A HOPE-BENDER FUCK YEAHRG.



Uh, Kyubey ALSO said it. Like, he was even paraphrasing it when Madokami was happening. Hope is totally a thing. It's PROBABLY Magic imo, but it might not be.

It's also possible that 'Magic' is just the applications of Hope and Grief; the two energies are just the fuel and the 'Magic' is applied Work.
With all the hope she's harnessing, she's giving birth to a new universe.
But that means her eventual despair will be so great, it would destroy another universe.
It's only natural.
Hope just seems to be a synonym for magic here. Not really weaponizable.
 
Trying science without even an idea of what approach to take is unlikely to get results though.
The approach to take is the same one we've been using this whole time. Use our powers to will the Grief to do/be what we want. If that doesn't work we find a new approach. Hell, we could bust out some healing magic and try to make Grief emulate it with a direct comparison available.

Using "We don't know how it works." as an excuse is pointless. We have no fucking idea how magic works. Nobody knows how magic works. The Clarke tech bunnycats have no idea how magic actually works.
 
The approach to take is the same one we've been using this whole time. Use our powers to will the Grief to do/be what we want. If that doesn't work we find a new approach. Hell, we could bust out some healing magic and try to make Grief emulate it with a direct comparison available.

Using "We don't know how it works." as an excuse is pointless. We have no fucking idea how magic works. Nobody knows how magic works. The Clarke tech bunnycats have no idea how magic actually works.
Stored healing magic seems slightly more...possible. Grief is bullshit, yes, but it's bullshit that we know works in a certain way. If we want to make a ring of regeneration out of grief, first we need to know how a ring of regeneration works in the first place, yes?
 
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Why are we even arguing about the magic item test? We can just attempt to make a magic item out of grief and see if it works on ourselves. Any negative effect caused by the ring would probably be able to be undone by our limited natural healing magic (and if it still scares you, we can use a lab rat). I don't think it'll work, but there's nothing stopping us from trying.
 
Stored healing magic seems slightly more...possible. Grief is bullshit, yes, but it's bullshit that we know works in a certain way. If we want to make a ring of regeneration out of grief, first we need to know how a ring of regeneration in the first place, yes?
Do you know how to turn the physical manifestation of negative emotions into fire without just telling it to do so? I don't. I feel confident saying that you don't either. Same principle should apply since we very clearly do not need to know how to do something in order to make Grief do it.
 
Most of us don't think it'll blow up in our faces so much as feeling it'll be unlikely to work.

Do you know how to turn the physical manifestation of negative emotions into fire without just telling it to do so? I don't. I feel confident saying that you don't either. Same principle should apply since we very clearly do not need to know how to do something in order to make Grief do it.
Grief forms objects. We told our grief to turn into an object with a specific, straightforward set of mundane physical properties. That's how it works for Witches too, so there's precedent.

What exactly, are the properties of a ring of regeneration other than "wishful thinking"?
 
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So we waste couple of minutes trying to do it if it doesn't work. Oh no, woe is us.

Also, Cannon seems to think it'll turn into super cancer or something unless I read that post wrong.
 
So we waste couple of minutes trying to do it. Oh no. Woes is us.

Also, Cannon seems to think it'll turn into super cancer or something unless I read that post wrong.
It's still almost certainly a waste though- which is the only point I'm making.

And yes, hence "most". Super cancer is unlikely, but no more so than "success!"
 
So we waste couple of minutes trying to do it if it doesn't work. Oh no, woe is us.

Also, Cannon seems to think it'll turn into super cancer or something unless I read that post wrong.
It has a chance, yes. Look, we are willing grief to turn into "something" that helps speed up healing without defining what that "something" is beyond vague terms. You don't write blank cheques to crystallised despair, no matter how tame or subservient it appears.
 
It's still almost certainly a waste though- which is the only point I'm making.
Can you explain why you're so certain?

It has a chance, yes. Look, we are willing grief to turn into "something" that helps speed up healing without defining what that "something" is beyond vague terms. You don't write blank cheques to crystallised despair, no matter how tame or subservient it appears.
Okay then, we bust out some healing magic and tell Grief to do that. Better?
 
I honestly think nothing will be lost by trying. I very much doubt Firn will bad-end us or whatever shadowrunny thing you're afraid of over this. I fully expect that it will even give us some positive result, even if it's just knowledge of what not to do.
 
Wait, back up. You don't see anything weaponizeable about a Madoka-tier "Magic Bender"? Are you kidding me right now?
No, I don't see anything about wishing to bend hope that'd result in your expected result.

If you think an unrelated wish to control all magic everywhere would work, or that we could get Madoka to do that...Well, more power to you? But hope in and of itself? Is just an idea. Fanon aside, Madoka just wished to remove witches with the only evidence to the contrary being taking Mami's statement that
You are not just giving us back our hope. But you are becoming hope itself, the hope of magical girls everywhere.
a lot more literally than it warrants.

@Krecart
Because there is no game plan behind it?

@aeqnai
Other than time, yes, we don't lose anything by it.
 
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Because there is no game plan behind it?
...what? I- I don't understand. What do you mean by "no game plan"? The plan is to make enchanted items out of Grief. The ring of regeneration? The thing we just were talking about? That's the plan. We try to get there the same we've gotten here; by willing Grief to do what we want. Possibly by using our healing magic as a comparison in this specific case.
 
Well, mainly I'm just trying to wrap my head around an idea that would make un-witchification work. We can do plenty of experiments to make our grief usage more powerful, but our current holy grail is to return a witch to being a magical girl. I just don't know that we can do that solely from grief; there seems to need to be some other key.

And since we're here experimenting, I'm just throwing in thoughts on what we could try to test.

Random, not-terribly-useful idea:

Empty out Aurora. Create a golden cup out of grief (which thus feels witchy). Place Aurora seed inside cup. See if it reacts.
 
Just some idea's. Obviously not complete.

[] Inspect your soul gem with your senses. Inspect the 'container'. How is it made? What feels like magic? What feels like grief?
[] Inspect your grief seeds. Same questions.
[] Summon your war hammer. How did you make it? Where did you pull it from?
-[] Scan with your grief senses.
-[] Can you alter your war hammer at all?
[] Can we make or substitute a 'container'?
-[] With Magic?
-[] With Grief?
[] Concealing active grief.
-[] Suppressing the 'signal' somehow?
-[] Contain in a shell of magic?
-[] Trick the detection? Disguise it somehow?
 
...what? I- I don't understand. What do you mean by "no game plan"? The plan is to make enchanted items out of Grief. The ring of regeneration? The thing we just were talking about? That's the plan. We try to get there the same we've gotten here; by willing Grief to do what we want. Possibly by using our healing magic as a comparison in this specific case.
It does seem a little far-fetched, from a doylist persective. I know we're supposed to be OP, but there's OP and then there's God mode (being able to enchant grief with whatever the hell we wanted would allow us to replicate nearly any magic effect, which would snap any non-negotiation challenge like a twig). But it would take only a few seconds to open a small cut on our hand somewhere, make the suggested ring, and see if it does its job nearly immediately. If it doesn't, we weren't going to get any use out of it anyway.

Edit: holy shit I just had an idea. @Muramasa we should try to will grief to become a grief seed- make a grief seed (the container, not the contained grief) out of grief. If we can get the concept right, it should work, and if not it's valuable research information.
 
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...what? I- I don't understand. What do you mean by "no game plan"? The plan is to make enchanted items out of Grief. The ring of regeneration? The thing we just were talking about? That's the plan. We try to get there the same we've gotten here; by willing Grief to do what we want. Possibly by using our healing magic as a comparison in this specific case.


In short, you want to try and get grief to passively mimic a specific kind of magic without further input from us...with that being something we have no precedent for.

...Well, I guess trying to enchant a grief object would be less likely to make it explode than, say, rocks or teacups...
 
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