[] Find out what happens when grief outside our control is allowed to coalesce in sufficient quantities.
-[] If it's possible to release our hold on grief that is still within our range, then do this inside our range so we can regain control if anything goes catastrophic. Otherwise, move grief to the edge of our range and be ready to quickly move closer if necessary.
--[] Begin by releasing small amounts of grief at a time and increase until it's dense enough to do something
... could we please?
Edit: Changing to Aranfan, because why the hell not.
[x] Try willing a witch's worth of Grief into being Rochelle.
We should expose one of the "clean" grief seeds to magic. Is this "apathy" state induced only when it happens to a witch, or can it be done after the defeat?
I want to, but I'm worried that our poor enchantment skills might break her.
I also want to add Mura's suggestions, but I feel like my own vote is pushing the edge of viable for a single update. The tests shouldn't take too long, though, so we should have plenty of time for another round of experiments.
Has anyone suggested transmuting Grief into Magic yet? They're intrinsically linked, and if we can figure that out we can try pumping the Seeds with Magic.
I can tell you this, at least; if you broke down every other starting from the OP, just a bit? You would be able to figure out almost everything about PMAS. You don't even need to do it that much - high school level, if that.
Although, speaking as someone who writes with the QM a lot, I can say there will be esoteric and very subtle shoutouts to everything and their shite spin-offs.
The trouble with that is that might lead to general paranoia, shadowderps, or reaching. You can't really tell for sure if you are really right or wrong.
For instance, I noticed certain parallels during the first encounter with Kyoko, but I could just be reaching or maybe it was just coincidence.
There was also Oriko's statement waaaaay back long ago about Kyuubey already knowing that Homura was making things worse. Seriously guys, just think about that carefully and consider the implications. Although, this could also just be me shadowrunning.
What Kyubey does and doesn't know is a bit of a blank slate as ever- I suspect it's onto us knowing about Grief Seeds and Witches from its reaction to watching our experiments- but don't want to outright confirm anything it's guessing at.
I think "The colorful pretty not-soul-rapey magic Puella Magi use is basically Hope energy" is atleast as viable as anything else anyone in canon or in the thread has ever posited, Ugo. You're free to disagree, but the degree to which you're going out of your way to do so is like...weird?
I've read through the post-update thread and compiled all the ideas we want to test:
-disguise grief from MG senses (Suppressing the 'signal' somehow? Contain in a shell of magic? Trick the detection? Disguise it somehow?)
-remove the "witchy" property from grief. separate to the above, in case the "witchy" property is a thing in itself.
-touch completely empty seed to normal seed
-figure out why grief seeds don't feel "witchy" when by rights they should
-teleport grief within our range -alter a witch directly
-examine grief in our gem
-examine what happens to grief as it enters our gem (tiny quantities, for safety) -does grief energy exist? does radiated heat from a grief-hot construct feel like grief?
-can we create objects with magical properties?
-can we make grief invisible?
-can we make grief into complex machinery? without knowing how said machinery works? start with, say, a laser pointer. scale up.
-can we will a barrier into being from diffuse grief? don't stand in the target area.
-can we will a familiar into being from grief? should we wait until we can examine a live familiar? I don't think it will hurt to make the attempt. -can we give grief abnormal physical properties like gravity, repulsion, magnetism. Can we target those effects, for example, gravity that only attracts a specific object, or gravity that only affects a specific class of objects or type of matter? -grief to light.
-grief to tesseract. -can grief be enchanted? will require someone who can actually do enchantment, which isn't us.
-can grief be dematerialized and held in that state until we want to rematerialize it?
-can we convert grief into magic by reversing the process that creates grief in the soul gem when magic is used?
-how far can we modify grief without transmuting it? where's the line?
-does solid grief that we aren't controlling remain when outside our range?
-does solid grief that we order to remain solid do so when outside our range? in other words, can we give commands to our grief to persist?
-if there's a way to have grief persist outside our range, to what degree can we automate grief commands when outside our range? -can we create warped space? see this experimental design, at the end of the post. -can we create areas of warped time? -what happens to a soul on death?
-can we replicate a witch's kiss?
-is a grief seed a transformed soul gem, or a broken soul gem? In other words, is there an extra container to the soul gem that no longer exists on a grief seed, or is the container merely warped?
-what happens to grief as we draw it from a soul gem / grief seed? examine the compression process in reverse. -if we can warp space with grief, how does a witch produce the "separation" effect that a barrier has? in other words, can we will a spatial pocket into being, or give the grief used the property of being segregated from the normal world except through a single entrance? -are grief prosthetics possible? or are they possible but useless outside our range? or are they not possible?
-how do transformation scenes work? -is hope a thing or just a synonym for magic?
-Inspect your soul gem with your senses. Inspect the 'container'. How is it made? What feels like magic? What feels like grief?
-Inspect your grief seeds. Same questions.
-Summon your war hammer. How did you make it? Where did you pull it from? Scan with your grief senses. Can you alter your war hammer at all?
-Can we make or substitute a 'container'? With Magic? With Grief?
-can we will a grief seed into being?
-can grief be given properties that mimic specific types or properties of magic?
-can grief simply be specific types or properties of magic? no mimicry involved.
The ones highlighted in red could backfire without proper precautions, although there are hardly any that we shouldn't do anyway. The ones in yellow can't be done right now.
So based on this list, here's most of the items in vote form. We'd have to decide what to cut and what to leave for later.
[x]Test the permanence of grief. Place a standardized grief cube and an identical cube except that you order it to remain solid. Move out of range, then return. If any remain, test mechanical behavior (metronome), grief with altered properties (grief glass, combinations of substances, our new compression trick), controlled intent (instruments), intent plus transmuted substances.
[x]Your grief works according to your will. In that case, can you...
-[x]Grant or take away properties of grief. Start by simple physical properties like slight magnetism, slight gravity, slight repulsion. Increase the magnitude but not to dangerous levels, and extrapolate mentally to figure out what would be required for dangerous levels. Make the properties selective.
--[x]Attempt to disguise grief from MG senses. Either by removing how it's sensed or by adding the property of un-senseable by MGs. If that fails, can it be contained to dampen detection, or give off a deceptive feeling rather than the feeling of 'grief'?
--[x]Attempt to remove the "witchy" property from grief, in case that itself is a thing.
-[x]Grant magical properties to grief. Invisibility, for example.
-[x]Grant magical effects to grief. Grief-enchanted-items, basically. A grief-object that heals or helps regenerate wounds.
--[x]Create or modify grief so that it mimics magical potential in a way that can be stored and released on command, based on powers of magical girls we've seen so far. On command by people without grief powers, too.
---[x]Make those magical properties actual magic rather than a simulacrum.
-[x]Create things with grief that you don't actually understand. Household objects. Start with, say, a ballpoint pen. Then a laser pointer? A functioning smartphone?
-[x]Create things with grief that don't actually exist except in the imagination. A sci-fi ray-gun. Fictional items.
-[x]Create grief-constructs that you know exist but don't understand how they work.
--[x]Create a small barrier.
--[x]Create a familiar.
-[x]Warp space using grief. Create two small but identical designated chambers with grief, and transmute one into a hallway that is longer on the inside than the outside. Roll balls down each. Observe and time them.
--[x]Warp time in an area using grief. Same as above, but with slowed time, or a specific period of time designated.
-[x]Teleport grief within our range.
--[x]Dematerialize and rematerialize grief in our range, and hold it in the un-materialzied state.
(I suggest we cut things here and leave the rest for the next update)
[]The conversion of grief by the grief seed and soul gem remains a bit of a mystery...
-[]Inspect your soul gem with your senses. Inspect the 'container'. How is it made? What feels like magic? What feels like grief?
-[]Inspect your grief seeds. Same questions.
-[]Closely examine our soul gem as we generate grief in it by using magic. What changes? What is lost? What is gained? Where does it come from? How? Conjuring hammers is an easy magical expense.
-[]Closely examine a tiny quantity of grief as it enters our soul gem.
-[]Closely examine grief as it leaves a grief seed and as it leaves our soul gem. Don't break Irene, though.
-[]Can we create a 'container' like a soul gem's, or even a grief seed's?
[]Some items are too risky except to try last.
-[]Can we conjure a grief seed?
-[]Grief-matter comes from a grief-reaction (the fire). Does grief-energy exist? Well away from us & flammable things, create a piece of hot grief metal. Observe it in your grief senses, seeing if the heat it radiates is also grief, or merely energy.
-[]Being very careful with shields and distance, convert the smallest quantity of grief we can to light. If it was safe, repeat with a slightly larger quantity.
I think "The colorful pretty not-soul-rapey magic Puella Magi use is basically Hope energy" is atleast as viable as anything else anyone in canon or in the thread has ever posited, Ugo. You're free to disagree, but the degree to which you're going out of your way to do so is like...weird?
The trouble with that is that might lead to general paranoia, shadowderps, or reaching. You can't really tell for sure if you are really right or wrong.
For instance, I noticed certain parallels during the first encounter with Kyoko, but I could just be reaching or maybe it was just coincidence.
There was also Oriko's statement waaaaay back long ago about Kyuubey already knowing that Homura was making things worse. Seriously guys, just think about that carefully and consider the implications. Although, this could also just be me shadowrunning.
I want to, but I'm worried that our poor enchantment skills might break her.
I also want to add Mura's suggestions, but I feel like my own vote is pushing the edge of viable for a single update. The tests shouldn't take too long, though, so we should have plenty of time for another round of experiments.
Your permanence tests are actually really simple to summarize. If it works, then test properties. If it doesn't work, then move on.
Similarly, any "create X" test takes no more than a minute and is basically "it works" or "it doesn't work and Sabrina puzzles over why for a second or two".
Bah, that post was kind of stupid and I think that I may have worded it wrong, or maybe the meaning got lost somewhere. The prospect of silliness never stopped me from trying to figure things out. And it isn't what keeps me from arguing.
What Kyubey does and doesn't know is a bit of a blank slate as ever- I suspect it's onto us knowing about Grief Seeds and Witches from its reaction to watching our experiments- but don't want to outright confirm anything it's guessing at.
Yeah, but how did he figure out that Homura was a time traveler and that her repeated loops are what caused Madoka's huge potential? Unless, I misinterpreted what Oriko said, anyway...
I was under the impression that he didn't figure that all out until near the end of the series.
Then again, didn't Firnagzen say that Oriko didn't know about Kriemheld Gretchen? Man, now I'm really confused.
Technically, sure, but there's no real reason to doubt that explanation. It would certainly explain Madoka's steadily rising power over the course of the loops, and the logic is fairly sound.
Well, don't keep it to yourself, share it with everyone! What parallels? What are we missing? What the hell am I missing? Seriously, man, the one time I call for shadowruns no one actually does the shadowrunning.
It's always good to have you around, especially when there's SCIENCE/MAGIC research to be done. I, uh, I was kinda fangirling over your analysis of Gems/Seeds/etc earlier, speaking of which.
Well, don't keep it to yourself, share it with everyone! What parallels? What are we missing? What the hell am I missing? Seriously, man, the one time I call for shadowruns no one actually does the shadowrunning.
Meh, it was more like the sequence of events felt vaguely familiar.
Temporary going into another's territory. Save from a witch. Free grief cleanse. Food afterwards. I think there's a little more, but I can't really think right now. Been a while since I read both of them. I'm basically talking about the first meeting between Kyoko and Mami in Different Story.
Incidently, idealistic Kyoko is really freaking adorable from what I remember of the manga.
