I really don't have time to type something up after every update, but since Rook is on our case...

You finish cracking your knuckles, and bounce lightly on your feet. Science, or SCIENCE! A question for the ages...

You grin to yourself.

So many ideas, so little time.

Well, first things first. Though you're fairly bad about that sometimes, you admit to yourself. Eh. You cleanse your Gem, pulling the filmy layer of darkness out and leaving it gleaming again. You trail the Grief around your left pinky, forging a solid ring snug against your skin.

The soul gem doesn't just clear out when its cleansed. It gleams. Contrast with:

"Mmm, there's more room out here," you say. Aurora and Hildegarde don't look particularly different, two clear, glassy orbs surrounded by the delicate, impossibly detailed filigree of a Grief Seed.

They're merely clear. Empty.

You wander into the slowly rusting warehouse, hunting for implements which you can use to measure things. The building feels... melancholic, somehow, the faint tang of rust in the chill air seeming to spell out the regrets of days long past. You wonder if there might have been a Witch here, once?

Might there have been a Witch here once? Or might this be a location that's familiar to us, like where H.N.Elly spawned?

Ooooooor, more likely, this is a hint on the nature of grief. Remember how post-Madokami humanity's ambient grief accumulates, eventually forming miasma and demons? The Witch system is a way of collecting this ambient grief into barriers and then into grief seeds. But in areas where ambient grief builds, it should give a grief-bender a feeling. That doesn't preclude this being the location of a past witch (makes sense, even). But it hints that ambient grief exists, along with every other hint we've gotten about the same subject.

You pull a sphere of Grief from the enormous mass lurking on the edge of the parking to you, and drop it on the asphalt in front of you with a thunk. Grief is what Barriers are made of, so you should be able to change its properties... And you already have, haven't you? Transparency and acoustic properties. You note down that thought on some paper.

You focus, reaching for instincts whispering on the edge of your consciousness. Ephemeral strands of your will twist at the blob of Grief, a crystal clear image of the result bobbing up in your mind's eye and-

The control is instinctual, but it relies on our will and on our mental image. If we can't envision or conceptualize the form properly, does that mean we can't create/mold it?

Fwoosh.

A gout of clear, orange flame explodes in a conflagration in front of you, pounding into your senses as Witch. You flinch back from the incandescent heat, the skin of your face suddenly dry and tight.

The flame burns soundlessly, something more akin to a luminous gas fire than anything, albeit one hovering a handspan above the ground and without any apparent fuel source. It's definitely producing heat, certainly, and... You look around the parking lot, and spot a discarded plastic wrapper blown here by the wind. You snag it and toss it into the flame, where it crisps and burns with foul smelling smoke as expected.

You squint at the fire. Where's the energy coming from? The first thought that springs to mind is that it's somehow burning Grief into energy - that particular thought's been kicking around your mind for a while, anyway. But if it is, it's not doing it quickly enough for you to notice. You hurriedly write all that down, too.

You wave your hand, and send the flame zipping around the parking lot. The flame is distorted by the rush of air until you focus, on it, at which point it burns steadily as if there weren't air rushing past it. A twist of will turns it from a pseudo gas flame to a crisp wood fire, and then a smoky, oily conflagration belching out black smoke.

The smoke lights up on your senses just as strongly, and you guide it into a wispy, smoky circle - it's as much Witch-stuff as is the fire itself.

The energy released from the chemical reaction of the fire wouldn't convert something directly into energy at a rate that would be noticable. However, the presence of grief-smoke in the later part suggests that grief is in fact being converted, because the grief smoke cannot come from nowhere. That means the fire is in fact consuming grief, just not at a significant rate to our senses.

Going to skip the Mami conversation.




"Eh? Nothing to apologize for, Mami," you hastily reassure her. Irene's a solid black sphere embraced in the same silvery latticework. And hiding inside, past the dense screening layers of Grief... Irene.

"Oh," Mami says. "Umm... Will I see you at lunch?"

"Mami, I'm not offended," you say. "And of course you will. I wouldn't miss it for the world."

"OK," Mami says, sounding marginally more reassured. "See you later."

"See you, Mami," you say.

You sigh out loud. Expected. You'd absolutely expected that. Just...

You shake your head, and hold up Aurora's Grief Seed, letting it balance on the tip of your finger. You tentatively poke a little blob of Grief at it. The Grief passes seamlessly into the Grief Seed as if the boundary weren't there. You nod - seems to be about what you'd expect. You reach for the primary mass of Grief, and start pouring it in, an endless torrent pouring down a bottomless drain. You watch that Grief intently as it flows in.

It changes as it passes that boundary. Changes into... well, you'd call it Witch stuff.

You blink, pausing the influx of Grief. It can't be that simple, can it?

You transfer your gaze to a basketball sized sphere of Grief, and instead of trying to compress it will it into a denser form. The difference between squashing a sponge and, well, turning it into an equivalent mass of lead. With an abrupt jolt, it suddenly shrinks into a tiny, pebble sized grain. And you know you can make it smaller.

It also feels exactly as Witchy as that fire you'd made earlier.

Which makes sense - you're doing the same thing. You changed the Grief into a denser form, as opposed to trying to compress it.

You look consideringly at the masses of Grief around you, absently picking up the process of refilling Aurora's Seed again. You pull a string out of Grief and pluck at it - it makes a dull thwacking noise. A twist of your will, and you pluck it again. This time, it twangs musically - but it doesn't feel like a Witch.

Will. Our will. That seems to the primary factor in controlling grief. Our intent. How much does conceptualization matter?


Hmm.

You seem to have some control over Grief as it is, but it only goes so far as Grief. But you can also... transmute it into different forms with different properties. Interesting.

You stop filling Aurora's Seed when it's half full. Holding it by its point, you tap it to Irene's Grief Seed.

Irene tears Grief from Aurora, a substantial portion vacuumed from one Grief Seed to the other in an instant, and you hastily jerk them apart. You bring your powers to bear, and confiscate the 'stolen' Grief from Irene, returning it to its unused state.

... huh.

That... was interesting, too.

You need to think about that a little more, though, so for now, you settle down on the asphalt floor, crossing your legs comfortably, and set the three Grief Seeds aside, letting them balance on their points. You pick up a small, fist sized rock instead.

Enchantment, then, while you ruminate about how to proceed with the Grief Seeds. You focus on your hand, on the magic coursing within, and start warping it as Mami had shown you the other day, pushing it into rock. It's... something like starting with a melon and deciding that you need to somehow infuse it with sugar all at once, except you need to do it without even breaking the melon open-

Crack!

Dammit.

The lump of asphalt shatters violently into three, the pieces zinging away with violent force. You sigh, and pick up one of the shattered chunks, and start again.

Half an hour later, you've reduced that first chunk into loose gravel, and started on a fresh piece of rock.

There's nothing for this except practice. Mami suggested she put hours upon hours into it when she first started. We should schedule half an hour to an hour every day.

"Sabrina?" Mami again, her voice querulous and worried.

"Hi, Mami!" you say, keeping your voice cheery. You set aside the rock for now.

"Hello, Sabrina!" That edge of worry softens, immediately reassured by just your voice.

I think that although part of this is clingyness, a fair bit is genuine worry. When Sabrina goes off on her own, she gets into trouble, doubly so if she intends to experiment.


(Very Witchy) Transmuted stuff, loose/gaseous Grief, solid Grief, Grief Seeds (not at all).

We've gone over this one a half dozen times. The only additional thing I can think of really, is putting it this way:

(Very Witchy) Transmuted stuff, loose/gaseous Grief, solid Grief, Soul Gems (not at all).

Another common feature between Grief Seeds and Soul Gems?
 
Speaking of shadowruns, there was also that Sabrina-was-Walpurgisnacht theory.

1.) Color scheme matches
2.) True name of Walpurgisnacht unknown
3,) It was in close proximity when Madoka made her wish
4.) Sabrina was apparently dying at the beginning
5.) Kyuubey makes comparison of well worn road walked by multiple people or something

Coincidence?:p

In all seriousness, I don't think I completely buy that Madoka created Sabrina. Meh, who knows? This does kind of support the whole "Sabrina was created" thing though, or at least that Sabrina is "new" in a way.
Clarification, since some discussion has informed me that I wasn't clear enough:

The character you are playing is a straight up insert into the PMMM world. You had no history until about... well, a little while ago.
 
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I need to see more bird
I'm trying, but Mami + birds is a bit more difficult that I'd like.

Edit: Oh, you found a yellow bird. That works too.
The energy released from the chemical reaction of the fire wouldn't convert something directly into energy at a rate that would be noticable. However, the presence of grief-smoke in the later part suggests that grief is in fact being converted, because the grief smoke cannot come from nowhere. That means the fire is in fact consuming grief, just not at a significant rate to our senses.
Couldn't the smoke just be Grief adhering to our expectations of a wood fire? The smoke was also Witch stuff.
 
I like how Firnagzen can toss the most prominent hints and shoutouts--the latter of which is his personal thing--every other update, then totally make the thread ignore them under the stampede of SCIENCE!
I am not going to read through the story-only thread again. I'm no good at the ninja 'look underneath the underneath' thing and I doubt I'd get many of the references anyway.
Besides, I've got other things that I should really be doing instead and I've got more self-control than that.
Nope. Not gonna do it. Nuh-uh, no way, no how.
...
*sigh* You win this round Rook! *Opens up tab and starts sleuthing*

Re: Science.
  • Try to slow down or halt grief production when using magic - application: stop grief spirals without having to pull out a ridiculous amount of grief (see the Masami healing episode for a moment when straight-up cleansing would have upset the delicate situation).
  • How does grief get into/out of gems/seeds anyway - can it go intangible and pass through any object or is the seed/gem special somehow (or porous, I suppose)?
  • How long could a small amount of grief remain as 'flames' that give off energy? Does that energy come from the grief itself or from our magic?Does the energy of the grief run out?
  • What does QB think of eating witchified or denser forms of grief compared to our normal marbles? Better/worse/comparable to a seed?
  • Can we interact with the dormant witch in an empty seed and not have a freakout like when we did it to (a-not-emptied-at-the-time) Hildegard?
  • What happens to a larger amount of grief when outside of our range/when we stop actively controlling it (further investigation of the 'it seems to attempt to do something, but vanishes' phenomena previously noted)?
  • Can we influence emotional grief/negativity?
  • Can we influence the 'barely there shadow of grief' in a mundane person?
Colour coded into -safe, -probably want someone there with a seed as a spotter just in case and -dangerous to yourself and/or others.

Will vote later.
 
Isn't that what I said? If the smoke is grief, it has to come from an existing source of grief.
...right. Sorry, I was trying to get at the fire not necessarily consuming anything. It could just look like its doing that. The fact that there's smoke may not mean anything beyond some of the Grief!fire is turning into smoke because we think it should. Not through a chemical process but the same transmutation that made the fire in the first place.

Doesn't even need to be Grief from nowhere since we just saw that the density of Witch stuff is highly variable.
 
Speaking of shadowruns, there was also that Sabrina-was-Walpurgisnacht theory.

1.) Color scheme matches
2.) True name of Walpurgisnacht unknown
3,) It was in close proximity when Madoka made her wish
4.) Sabrina was apparently dying at the beginning
5.) Kyuubey makes comparison of well worn road walked by multiple people or something

Coincidence?:p

In all seriousness, I don't think I completely buy that Madoka created Sabrina. Meh, who knows? This does kind of support the whole "Sabrina was created" thing though, or at least that Sabrina is "new" in a way.
A little shadowrun-y, but it would explain the conflicting personalities and wealth of knowledge in her head.
 
Somewhat off topic but has no one mentioned this yet?

Sure, this isn't the most complex math that's shown in the 'doka verse in Mitikihara (or however you spell that) High, but dang. What kind of insane learning curve is their math program tailored for? :o

EDIT: un-accidentally the double copy paste
Bit of a latecomer, but any school that has the funding to mount Anor Londo on their roof probably would have a learning curve about as steep as a Dwarf Fortress simulation of EVE Online.
 
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...Why is this exclusive of the "Madowish theory"?

Like, you could make Madokami's interference even more subtle by way of hijacking a wish made by herself and/or putting the idea in her head or something.
So apparently I missed this somehow. To be frank, it isn't. It could very well be the case, and given what we know our possible origins, it might even be likely. The major problem that I have is that people keep treating the Madowish as the sole cause of Sabrina'sexistence, regardless of all the inconsistencies, and make no attempt to expand on that.
Speaking of shadowruns, there was also that Sabrina-was-Walpurgisnacht theory.

1.) Color scheme matches
2.) True name of Walpurgisnacht unknown
3,) It was in close proximity when Madoka made her wish
4.) Sabrina was apparently dying at the beginning
5.) Kyuubey makes comparison of well worn road walked by multiple people or something

Coincidence?:p

In all seriousness, I don't think I completely buy that Madoka created Sabrina. Meh, who knows? This does kind of support the whole "Sabrina was created" thing though, or at least that Sabrina is "new" in a way.
Well, it could be. Remember that theory I floated awhile back about Sabrina being inserted into the timeline from the post madokami world? Perhaps Sabrina is composed from the girls who originally made up Walpurgis?
/crackpot intensifies
 
Meta-knowledge seems weird if we're Wally.
What's more meta than "all the world's a stage"? :D

her nature is helplessness. She symbolizes the fool who continuously spins in circles...will continue to rotate aimlessly throughout the world until she completely changes the whole of this age into a drama

It tries to get rid of the all fates of misery. By covering all around the world with her magic. A moving stage set. Which trying to take all humans into the play. There is no need to grieve if all of it is just a play.
 
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Like, we got a reaction some months ago at the QB appreciation day so... :D
Which update was that?
You wander into the slowly rusting warehouse, hunting for implements which you can use to measure things. The building feels...

...

A gout of clear, orange flame explodes in a conflagration in front of you, pounding into your senses as Witch. You flinch back from the incandescent heat, the skin of your face suddenly dry and tight.
Ooh. This is unexpected. And pleasing. Go Firn :)!

You hurriedly write all that down, too.
We can give them to Mami! "Look what I did."
You wave your hand, and send the flame zipping around the parking lot. The flame is distorted by the rush of air until you focus, on it, at which point it burns steadily as if there weren't air rushing past it. A twist of will turns it from a pseudo gas flame to a crisp wood fire, and then a smoky, oily conflagration belching out black smoke.
That is such bullshit.
With a roll of your wrists, you turn half of the Grief making up the fire into water, and it promptly extinguishes the fire with an angry hiss. Until you decide that the fire should burn anyway, and it reignites with a spiteful pop, water sitting on top of fire with no noticeable effect to each other.
Psychosomatic twist of wrist?

MAGIC >>>>>>>>>>SCIENCE
"Ah, I'm in math class," Mami replies. "Miss Sakaguchi's teaching us integration by parts today!"
Used to be math without memorization. Then "remember all those integrals/derivates" -.-
Oh. Goodness.

Well, she won't be very dangerous to Sabrina
"Ah, sorry, I should have thought of that," Mami says, worrying leaking into her voice again.
And here I had small hope she was just bored.

"Mami you do realize Kyubey hears all this?"
It changes as it passes that boundary. Changes into... well, you'd call it Witch stuff.
Haha. Oh yeah! Wresting control from witches' barriers inside seeds, here we come!
And you know you can make it smaller.

It also feels exactly as Witchy as that fire you'd made earlier.
...oor that. Witchiness of feeling correlates linearly to grief?
This time, it twangs musically - but it doesn't feel like a Witch.
Could we just wik the witch-feeling stuff to not feel like a witch?
Irene tears Grief from Aurora, a substantial portion vacuumed from one Grief Seed to the other in an instant, and you hastily jerk them apart.
How Walpurgisnatch was born.
Very well, let's see how easy this is.
"I guess I did," you say.
Sort of.
(Very Witchy) Transmuted stuff, loose/gaseous Grief, solid Grief, Grief Seeds (not at all).
Neat. Can we reverse that ranking, make witch seed witch and transmutated stuff not at all?
 
I don't want to begin the apology until we can truly begin making amends by healing her and releasing her house arrest.
I hadn't even thought about that: If we apologize now, before healing her, it's not gonna be worth much, seeing as we're in a position of strenght. We should make our apologies after Oriko's healthy and free.
Edit: holy shit I just had an idea. @Muramasa we should try to will grief to become a grief seed- make a grief seed (the container, not the contained grief) out of grief. If we can get the concept right, it should work, and if not it's valuable research information.
Meh, grief seeds.

[] Will grief to become an empty soul gem. Attempt to insert Hildegarde/Aurora/Irene in the empty gem.
The energy released from the chemical reaction of the fire wouldn't convert something directly into energy at a rate that would be noticable. However, the presence of grief-smoke in the later part suggests that grief is in fact being converted, because the grief smoke cannot come from nowhere. That means the fire is in fact consuming grief, just not at a significant rate to our senses.
Not necessarily, the smoke-grief could've been create wholesale, just like everytime we use magic, we create grief.



EDIT: Another thing. I know Oriko's used Hildegarde's emptied seed to cleanse her own Gem, but then Oriko's Gem didn't have a lot of grief in it, I think, so:

[] Fill own Gem to 20%, empty/fill Aurora to 5%. Make contact.
 
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The energy released from the chemical reaction of the fire wouldn't convert something directly into energy at a rate that would be noticable. However, the presence of grief-smoke in the later part suggests that grief is in fact being converted, because the grief smoke cannot come from nowhere. That means the fire is in fact consuming grief, just not at a significant rate to our senses.
Uh, did you miss the bit where there wasn't any smoke until AFTER we willed smoke into being? The original flame that we created was smokeless, it wasn't until we started experimenting that it started smoking, and the smoke reeks of the same sort of witch matter that our fire is made of.

Hell, we even made the smoke dance abit for us. Even when it's smoke it's still fundamentally grief, and can be reverted back into raw grief at will.
 
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So we're still experementing with grief, and Mami pics have somehow factored in. Just another day on SV, I suppose.
 
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