Those are literally the easiest points to counter
I love how you say that, then proceed to reference TRC.
A) Magical Girl Madoka is the biggest ticking timebomb in the entire universe. Fixing 'everything' requires a chain of events where Madoka never contracts.
B) That timeline is already fucked and Homura was going to jump anyway.
Yeah, but if that is the case, it would grant Madoka the ability to jump back through time, or alternatively, reset that timeline to back before everything became unsalvagable. It wouldn't require Homura's interference at all, Madoka's wish itself would be the trigger for the reset. Even if her wish was to specifically let someone else fix everything, it still wouldn't cause the puking issue, which is pretty much the major flaw behind the "Madoka's wish" theory.
C) Sabrina being in the state she was in was necessary to force out a contract and to justify to the rest of the universe why she's amnesiac and has no backstory to weigh her down with distracting bullshit.
Wishes in PMMM usually provide either a direct result (TL1 Madoka's, Kyouko's, Mami's, and Sayaka's wishes), or give the Magical girl the ability to achieve what they want (Homura's and Madokami's wishes). Wishing that everything could be fixed wouldn't usually result in a completely unrelated entity springing into being. If anything, it would give Madoka herself the ability to break the system, not us. It isn't impossible, but it's still pretty odd and doesn't quite line up with the actual words of her wish.

The main issue I have is that there isn't a direct link between Madoka's wish and us appearing. Every other wish, you can always see the link between the wish and the result. Kyouko wished for others to listen to her father, her father gains a convincing voice. Homura wishes to redo her meeting with Madoka, therefore she gains time travelling powers. Etc, etc.

With Madoka's wish, however, there isn't a direct link between her wishing for everything to be fixed and Sabrina puking her guts out in an alleyway. There might be an indirect link between the two, but A) wishes don't normally work that way. and B) that requires us to make quite a large number of assumptions to come to that conclusion, enough that I think that proceeding as though Sabrina is definitely, 100% the result of Madoka's wish is a foolhardy thing to do.

You'll have to forgive me for replying with quotes. I'm on mobile right now and I'll be damned if I have to type all that up on a virtual keyboard.
ALLLSO YEA we completely fucking saw Madokami when we woke up so Madoka's probably responsible for our existence in some way
Funny you should mention that. This is the biggest hole in the madoWish theory, because if we were solely the result of Madoka's wish, Madokami wouldn't exist at all. There would be no reason for that vision to appear in front of us. The fact that we know about Madokami means that Madoka's wish can't be the sole reason for our existence, even if you discount all the other points I've raised.
 
Last edited:
Funny you should mention that. This is the biggest hole in the madoWish theory, because if we were solely the result of Madoka's wish, Madokami wouldn't exist at all. There would be no reason for that vision to appear in front of us. The fact that we know about Madokami means that Madoka's wish can't be the sole reason for our existence, even if you discount all the other points I've raised.
Actually, if anything, that just discredits that particular scene as evidence. We would know of Madokami to have a quick hallucination about her regardless.

However, with all of this evidence for the prevailing theory being thrown around, I'd like to know what your running theory is, if only out of curiosity.
 
By that logic, since Madokami hasn't happened and isn't likely to happen in this quest (would be a failure condition, in fact), there remains no reason for that vision to appear in front of us e: beyond hallucination.

But it did.
 
Last edited:
I love how you say that, then proceed to reference TRC.





You'll have to forgive me for replying with quotes. I'm on mobile right now and I'll be damned if I have to type all that up on a virtual keyboard.

Funny you should mention that. This is the biggest hole in the madoWish theory, because if we were solely the result of Madoka's wish, Madokami wouldn't exist at all. There would be no reason for that vision to appear in front of us. The fact that we know about Madokami means that Madoka's wish can't be the sole reason for our existence, even if you discount all the other points I've raised.
I don't know, being a transcendent being who exists outside of space and time is weird. Is the potential of her existence enough for her to exert some sort of influence perhaps?

Edit: Let me clarify a bit. If Akuma!Homura is actively interfering with Oriko's precog then she's doing so long before she should exist. Does that make any sense?
 
Last edited:
Honestly, we probably should've done all the bombs at once. Atleast then we wouldn't have to deal with further dishonesty and having to keep ripping off her fucking bandages.

Because atleast we can tell her that we're working on a cure, unlike in most timelines. The more we wait, the worse it is.
Okay, you're right in that the witch thing alone or even together with lich from Sabrina is not as bad as usual witch+lich bombs at once. As for bandages, is it better to kick Mami every week, seven times at once, or keep her as our puppet?

That said, when I attempt to imagine it, I remember Mami partly-ignoring, partly-fearing us after lich bomb. Regardless of the merits of this idea (and it does have some from storytelling perspective, Jack Slash was pretty cool guy and SB usually only slays by combat power so it'd be refreshing to slay someone this way), I don't think this would have been very possible unless we did it very quickly. Can't ping a closed port and all.

As to whether this could have resulted in a better Mami than kicking her every week....Maybe if we weren't we - again, Sabrina is not best character for this - and at a different time. With just the +witchbomb, Mami being suicidal is easy to see, but with all the other ones too viewpoints like solipsism or "nothing I do matters" are options too.

Anyway, thank you for posting this. I may not agree but it is an interesting thing to ruminate on - how much like a story.

@theauthor: We're going to be a little more meta.
 
I love how you say that, then proceed to reference TRC.

To be entirely honest I had no problems understanding TRC. But I've come from a backround of growing up on Neil Gaiman and Alan Moore.

Yeah, but if that is the case, it would grant Madoka the ability to jump back through time, or alternatively, reset that timeline to back before everything became unsalvagable. It wouldn't require Homura's interference at all, Madoka's wish itself would be the trigger for the reset. Even if her wish was to specifically let someone else fix everything, it still wouldn't cause the puking issue, which is pretty much the major flaw behind the "Madoka's wish" theory.

The problem is that Madoka is still a Magical Girl.

Wishes in PMMM usually provide either a direct result (TL1 Madoka's, Kyouko's, Mami's, and Sayaka's wishes), or give the Magical girl the ability to achieve what they want (Homura's and Madokami's wishes). Wishing that everything could be fixed wouldn't usually result in a completely unrelated entity springing into being. If anything, it would give Madoka herself the ability to break the system, not us. It isn't impossible, but it's still pretty odd and doesn't quite line up with the actual words of her wish.

The main issue I have is that there isn't a direct link between Madoka's wish and us appearing. Every other wish, you can always see the link between the wish and the result. Kyouko wished for others to listen to her father, her father gains a convincing voice. Homura wishes to redo her meeting with Madoka, therefore she gains time travelling powers. Etc, etc.

With Madoka's wish, however, there isn't a direct link between her wishing for everything to be fixed and Sabrina puking her guts out in an alleyway. There might be an indirect link between the two, but A) wishes don't normally work that way. and B) that requires us to make quite a large number of assumptions to come to that conclusion, enough that I think that proceeding as though Sabrina is definitely, 100% the result of Madoka's wish is a foolhardy thing to do.

Given how Rebellion turned out, one could argue that the only way for everything to be fixed is the intervention of a third party.

Madoka having the power to break the system doesn't work; she already tried that.

Would try that.

Whatever.

Funny you should mention that. This is the biggest hole in the madoWish theory, because if we were solely the result of Madoka's wish, Madokami wouldn't exist at all. There would be no reason for that vision to appear in front of us. The fact that we know about Madokami means that Madoka's wish can't be the sole reason for our existence, even if you discount all the other points I've raised.

You realize Firn already wrote an omake where Far-Future Sabrina talks to Madokami even though the event that lead to her existence never happened?

"Huh. How are you here, anyway?"

Madoka shrugs sheepishly, a radiant smile lighting up her face. "I will once have erased my own Witch and myself from existence. I may will never have actually done it, but I did."

Basically, no, while you could say we hallucinated (Though I doubt it because that is a plot hook if I ever saw one from a Doylist perspective), our preventing Madokami from existing doesn't necessarily stop her from existing and our knowledge of her is proof of that.

If Madoka's wish DID effect future timelines after the one it was made in, then it can probably account for things further in meta-time, even if those meta-temporal events rewrite the past.
 
However, with all of this evidence for the prevailing theory being thrown around, I'd like to know what your running theory is, if only out of curiosity.
Well, okay, but bear in mind that I'm writing most of this on mobile, so it might not be very coherent. The theory itself isn't very coherent in the first place, but, eh.

The idea is that AkuHomu and Madokami are entities that exist outside of time. As long as it is possible for them to be created, they'll be able to exert influence on the world, even if it is technically before their creation. This causes the black feathers to appear, because Akuhomu's godly powers override Oriko's precog.

If Akuhomu can do something like that, that would mean that Madoka can do something similar as well. And what she wants most of all is to prevent Akuhomu from being born. However, she can't do so with conventional means, because her very existence makes it possible to come into existence, and once it's possible, Akuhomu can start exerting influence on the timeline to make it more likely that she will come into existence.

Given that her very existence itself prevents her from winning, she had to find some other way. Enter Sabrina. The idea is that she is basically an amalgam of several of the girls that Madokami saved, perhaps even all of them. This explains her absurdly high potential. This would also explain why she has metaknowledge. She then did some causality violating shenanigans to insert us into the timeline before she got created, in the hopes of finding a way to break the system that doesn't require Madokami to be born.

Time travel shenanigans hurt my head.

Well, then something went wrong with the insertion, possibly due to Akuhomu's influence, and we ended up puking our guts out in an alleyway.

This isn't a foolproof theory by any stretch, but it does give a possible explaination for our metaknowledge, which the madoWish theory doesn't address at all. It is also consistent with how magic and wishes have been shown to work in the series, though it mostly does that by sidestepping the whole wish issue.

And I think I have tunnel vision now.
 
Well, okay, but bear in mind that I'm writing most of this on mobile, so it might not be very coherent. The theory itself isn't very coherent in the first place, but, eh.

The idea is that AkuHomu and Madokami are entities that exist outside of time. As long as it is possible for them to be created, they'll be able to exert influence on the world, even if it is technically before their creation. This causes the black feathers to appear, because Akuhomu's godly powers override Oriko's precog.

If Akuhomu can do something like that, that would mean that Madoka can do something similar as well. And what she wants most of all is to prevent Akuhomu from being born. However, she can't do so with conventional means, because her very existence makes it possible to come into existence, and once it's possible, Akuhomu can start exerting influence on the timeline to make it more likely that she will come into existence.

Given that her very existence itself prevents her from winning, she had to find some other way. Enter Sabrina. The idea is that she is basically an amalgam of several of the girls that Madokami saved, perhaps even all of them. This explains her absurdly high potential. This would also explain why she has metaknowledge. She then did some causality violating shenanigans to insert us into the timeline before she got created, in the hopes of finding a way to break the system that doesn't require Madokami to be born.

Time travel shenanigans hurt my head.

Well, then something went wrong with the insertion, possibly due to Akuhomu's influence, and we ended up puking our guts out in an alleyway.

This isn't a foolproof theory by any stretch, but it does give a possible explaination for our metaknowledge, which the madoWish theory doesn't address at all. It is also consistent with how magic and wishes have been shown to work in the series, though it mostly does that by sidestepping the whole wish issue.

And I think I have tunnel vision now.

...Why is this exclusive of the "Madowish theory"?

Like, you could make Madokami's interference even more subtle by way of hijacking a wish made by herself and/or putting the idea in her head or something.

Because as much as you like to complain about Madowish theory violating how we've seem wishes work (by way of doing something unprecedented, which is hardly an objection at all because Madoka can, will, and does break the rules with her wishes), Madokami just spawning Sabrina ex nihilo contradicts what Madokami was shown to be capable of in Rebellion.

So uhhh.
 
Last edited:
"We've Got Hostiles" pt. 51
You sigh, and nod in acceptance. You're not sure that there's anything you can do that won't make things worse, if you're honest with yourself. And some part of you thinks that it's... fitting, in a way, that Akiko's reduced to this. You force that thought aside, too.

You look up at Rin. "Let me know if anything changes?"

The healer nods.

"Alright," you say out loud, voice low. "Alright. We're going home, then." You push yourself to your feet, and Mami looks up at you, tentatively holding her hands out. You smile, and easily pull her to her feet.

"The ribbons will dissolve in about half an hour after we leave," Mami notes, gesturing at the awning.

Rin nods again, looking between you and Mami. Finally, she bows deeply to you. When she straightens again, she says softly, "I'm grateful for what you've done. But... I don't think I can thank you. Not now."

"I understand," you say.

And you suppose you do. For all that you'd done a lot of good, it's still a bitter pill to swallow. Even for yourself. And you can only hope that that bitterness isn't bitter almond, that you did do good, and that it isn't going to come back and bite you in the ass at some later point.

You bring in some Grief, enough to shape a platform big enough for yourself, Mami, and Kirika. "Mami, do you think you could..." you gesture at Kirika's sleeping form.

Mami blinks in confusion, before it clicks. "Um... OK," she says. She flicks a hand, a ribbon spooling out from nowhere to snake under Kirika's body, gently bearing her up. The blackhaired girl grumbles something, flailing a bit, and her eyes blink muzzily open.

"Huh? Wuzza?" Kirika mumbles. She rolls over to squint at you.

Oh well. "We're going home," you say. "We'll drop you off at Oriko's."

Kirika brightens sleepily. "Yay!" she says, rubbing at an eye with the back of her fist. "Wake me up when I'm home?"

"Nah, we'll just dump you into Oriko's bed," you say, grinning.

"Mmmkay, sounds good," Kirika says, letting her head slump back to the ribbons and eyes sliding closed.

You glance at Mami. A furious blush stains her cheeks. "Uh-" she stammers. "Are we actually going to..."

You smile. "Oriko will probably be waiting for us," you say as you walk to the platform. You frown for a moment, and add a roof to it, since the storm hasn't abated in the slightest.

"Oh," Mami says, considering that as she follows you. "That's true."

Rin stands, watching from the roof as you slowly lift the platform into the air. You lift your hand in a wave, and she returns it.

"Miss Tsubaki?" you reach out for telepathy as you settle into a seated position, Mami immediately cuddling into your side. Kirika's settled behind you, snoozing happily again.

"Yes, Miss Sabrina?" Chouko replies.

"Hamasaki's... she's basically catatonic," you say. "She's no harm to you, now. We're headed home."

"I see," Chouko says. "Then... thank you again, Miss Sabrina."

You sigh. "You're welcome," you reply. "I'll be seeing you sometime soon for cleansing, I guess."

"Yes. Goodbye for now, Miss Sabrina," Chouko says.

You slowly accelerate away from the roof, heading into the stormy night, pulling the enormous masses excess of Grief along with you. Eventually, transform, and raise a clear windshield, the glassy material resonating in your senses, and making Kirika snort and roll over.

Mami's only reaction is to peek up at you, before resettling herself to cuddle into your side despite your coat being in the way.

A twist of will brings up a wall separating Kirika from you and Mami, and you slowly reshape the entire structure, shifting it into a more aerodynamic shape as you will it to go faster, faint lights below whizzing past in a blur. You're fairly certain Kirika's sound asleep now, and that the wall will cut off sound effectively, and... you're stalling. You put Kirika out of your mind.

You take a deep breath.

"I'm sorry, Mami," you say softly.

"What for, Sabrina?" Mami asks, equally softly. She sounds puzzled.

"For..." you swallow. "Mami, I haven't been very considerate to you at all. I haven't... I've been an awful person, Mami, to you. To everyone around me, but you the most of all. I'm sorry."

"What?" Mami asks, face dimly lit by the faint light glowing from the suburbs below. "I don't... you're not an awful person, Sabrina!"

"No, I-" you squeeze your eyes shut in pain. "I run roughshod over everyone's opinions. I assume that my way is better, and I force everyone to follow along because... because I have the power to."

"Sabrina, I-"

You shake your head, and Mami falls silent. "Mami, you didn't want to get involved in the war. You thought Oriko might be lying. And here we are anyway. I, I. I tell you I'll be safe. That I'll be careful. Then I immediately run out into danger, and I get hurt and I."

"Sabrina..." Mami says, trailing off. "Sabrina, you're being silly."

"Mami, I. Every time you tell me not to do something. You, I. I ignore it, and I can't imagine it's easy to see me go into all these, these messes," you say. You look down at your hands, fisted in your lap, tears beginning to slide down your face as if to replace the rain you're leaving behind.

A pale hand reaches across your blurred vision, and gently takes one of your hands. Mami smooths your hand out, and holds it between both of hers.

"Sabrina," she says gently. "You wouldn't be you if you didn't do what you thought was the right thing. I'm sorry for asking that you stop. Because you care, Sabrina, and that's nothing to be ashamed of."

Even if it hurts me, you fill in the words.

You swallow. "I'm sorry, Mami," you mutter thickly. "I'm... I'm sorry."

"Don't be," she says.

But you are.

The rest of the trip is spent in silence, Mami holding your hand in hers the whole way. Her other hand strokes soothingly across the back of your hand, her fingertips ghosting across your hand in slow, gliding circles as if she's trying to memorize every contour, every skein of muscle, every vein.

When you arrive at Oriko's house, descending towards her rear garden, you find the seer standing at the glass door, her one hand already pushing it open. She looks haggard, white hair dishevelled and faint black bags starting to form under her eyes.

"Welcome back," she says tonelessly, looking up at you as you melt away your windshield so that you can talk to her unimpeded.

You stay on your platform, Mami still holding your hand and leaning her head against your shoulder. "Good to be back," you say, detaching and lowering the portion of your platform Kirika's lying on. "It's late, so I'm just dropping off Kirika. She did amazingly out there, though - we can talk about that another time."

Oriko nods, a gentle smile on her face as she looks at the sleeping Kirika. She reaches out with her hand, gently stroking Kirika's cheek.

Kirika wakes.

Citrine eyes meet and hold sea green ones, the same smile spreading across Kirika's face.

One smile, spread across two faces.

You turn away, abruptly feeling like you're intruding on something intensely private. Instead, you find golden eyes regarding you closely. Mami gives you a warm smile.

Your stomach squirms uncomfortably. She believes in you. She believes in you with a purity that almost... it shines, just as much as she said you do.

But you return the smile. Because you don't want to see hers dim.

"Good bye," you murmur in Oriko and Kirika's general direction. You don't know if they hear, or really, if they should. Your platform lifts off into the air again, homeward bound.

"Is that you, Sabrina?" Homura's voice.

"Yeah," you reply. "We're home. Talk to you tomorrow?" You peer out of the restored windshield, and maybe it's just your imagination, but you fancy you see the faintest gleam of a scope, far below in the cityscape. Almost certainly just your imagination, of course. You're too far up.

"OK," Homura says simply. "It's... good that you made it back."

It doesn't take too long to get home, and you shamble in, calling out a tired, "I'm home," Mami responding with a "Welcome home." You'd left the vast bulk of your Grief on the rooftop - there's probably enough to pack the living room full, if you brought it indoors.

"I'll make some tea," you suggest. "You can shower in the meantime?"

Mami hesitates, before nodding her agreement, and heading to the shower.

You allow the tiredness to wash over you as you busy yourself in the kitchen, the familiar surroundings comforting in that familiarity. This is home, isn't it? For all that it's been a week. A hectic week that feels like it lasted months, but just a weeks nevertheless.

Mami returns quickly, damp and clean, just as you bear two cups of tea and a plate of sandwiches out. Her stomach growls at the sight, and she blushes, before smiling at you gratefully. You return the smile, before heading off to take a shower yourself.

Her face lights up when she sees you again, her cup of tea untouched as you join her at the table. You shake your head slightly at her. She just smiles back in response.

You shouldn't have.

I did anyway.


Your tea's still warm, and you sip gratefully at it, picking up a sandwich.

A clink of ceramic on the glass tabletop, Mami's presence settling comfortably at your side.

She picks up a sandwich too.

Between the two of you, the sandwiches are gone all too quickly.

Warm and full and sleepy. Mami cuddling against you.

You sigh. "We need to talk tomorrow morning," you say.

"OK," Mami agrees.

You stand, Mami standing with you, and between the two of you, you make short work of the dishes, before headed to bed. Mami pauses at the door to her bedroom, her touch feather light on your elbow, and you pause.

You smile, and head in with Mami, collapsing into your mattress, Mami hestitating before dropping into her bed.

You lie awake for a while, with your eyes closed, as you think things over. Mami, yourself. Mami and yourself. Yourself. Who are you? What are you? Something Madoka did? Either Madoka? An abberation in the timelines? Something else?

Somewhere along the way, you hear Mami sit up, and ease onto the mattress beside you, worming under your blanket. An arm wraps around your waist from behind, and you hear Mami sigh contentedly. Her breath slowly evens out into slumber.

Well.

You really can't say you didn't expect that, you muse as you finally drift off to sleep yourself.

[] When do you want to wake up?
[] Write-in


=====​

And with that, we draw both the chapter and the book to a close. The next update begins the new chapter, "Under the Radar".
 
Last edited:
This has at least a couple meanings/implications, I think.
 
Hmm. I think one of the major reason we stop the war is to averted the accident caused by the war as predicted by oriko. Am i wrong?
I mean we still don't know who cause the eathquake after the war should we not stop it already
 
Last edited:
[]Wake up a bit earlier than usual.
-[]Eastern breakfast for the Mumi. Tea for the Mumi. If she wakes up, try and persuade her to get some rest...but if that doesn't work, make it together?
-[]Ask her what she'd like to do today. Does she feel okay with going to school today? She shouldn't feel that she has to, but does she want to?
[]Ping Homura and let her know what's happening now- and what happened. The war ended. No one died. The groups are more or less at peace and we're going back to cleanse later. We "won".
[] Madoka, and Sayaka. If Mami went to school, ask them not to bother Mami too much. She had a rough day. We promise to explain everything, soon, but for now, they should just stay away from Kyubey if they see him.
[]If she didn't go to school and if she asks...tell her the truth like we said we were going to the night before. There are things we haven't told her yet. Some of them aren't just ours to tell, some of them we're not too sure about ourselves, and some of them we're not even sure how to talk about. But she deserves to know, and we promise that we will tell her everything as soon as we've figured out how. It's...complicated.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top