- Location
- United States
We increase our stat caps by having more land.
When we get a certain amount of provinces, we get more actions and higher stat caps, likely to represent having more resources to store and work with.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
When we get a certain amount of provinces, we get more actions and higher stat caps, likely to represent having more resources to store and work with.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Do we also have records of success? I.e. is Alyx going to write extensive memoirs detailing his thought processes during the campaign for future commanders to study?
Same amount of time. Half as long turns but twice as many of them.
@Academia Nut reminder ping
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I expect we have much more of those. People like writing about their success more.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
OTOH, we've only just now discovered paper. Sure, we have clay and stuff to write down stuff, but our writing output is probably not that significant and 90% administration.
Pretty sure the Sacred Forest's library got a significant amount on forest ecology, general science stuff, historical accounts, divination guides, and plays, in addition to administrative records.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
So you are saying that we can never build up a reserve. More provinces also mean more actions.
Eh. It just mean we need to find new mechanics to increase our wealth cap independent of the Guilds. We would be screwed if we don't have Wildcat Prospecting, for example.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We don't currently.
Wildcat Prospecting's mechanics are part of Personal Stewards of Nature.
Two libraries and an academy are going to solve the issue of ONE RA increase. What happens when RA is increased again? And AGAIN?
We just had Redshore build a Temple, putting us one point away from Max RA. In the next two turns, I think we are somewhat likely to gain another Temple thanks to the Priest Faction Quest, so that is another point of RA. Do you want us to somehow find three actions and a heap of stat points to counteract the RA we just got, and do it again in the next two turns? Because if so, I can assure you that we just don't have time.
To put it in perspective, the amount of work you are proposing is commensurate to how much work we would need to build 3{S} worth of Roads. And just how often have we found the time to do that? Spoiler: not often at all.
The problem with RA is that we keep earning more with no way to get rid of it. Finding a way to avoid getting rid of it at the cost of 3 actions and a dozen-plus stats does not a good solution make.
Building Significant walls gives us a Secondary Action and 2 Econ worth of output per turn. Gaining one progress on Massive Walls gives us 1/3 of a Secondary action, 1 Econ, and 1/3 Martial per turn. How is it not a waste?
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sorry, I should clarify. I'm not claiming that our existing system is a democracy, because it's clearly not. I'm just arguing that the mere fact of having a king does not automatically prevent us from having a democracy, if that king were democratically elected, which he in fact is not (our current electoral system, you're right, is definitely oligarchical).
On the one hand, that's the nominal root of it; on the other, it does increase our chances of entering a Gilded Age, which is mechanically mixed but narratively bad. So there are reasons we'd rather not lower our Wealth cap too much.
Wildcat Prospecting's ability to turn Centralization into actions was copied over, but Wildcat Prospecting triggered every time we found a mine location from a Survey, whereas PSN triggers about once per turn. There is a major difference there.
Agreed. I'm actually considering trying to go for the Khemetri Spiritual Value next since we know they have a way of replacing Stability hits for RA hits, even though I really don't like the narrative involved.
- Location
- Staring into the void
We'd probably have to re-establish contact with them first.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I agree that we need a way to let go of RA, some way to release it. But since we have no way to do that currently, I'm more interested in building an academy next main turn. We lose a refund of Myst, but we currently have no negative income for that and rarely actually spend it on anything. And everything I would be likely too is already at or greater than 3, going down to 2 and losing 1 stat point more occasionally is not a prohibitive cost for me.
I think you could be right and getting to red RA will let us develop a way to let it go actively, but I doubt it will be that easy. More than likely we simply take the option which drops it. I see it quite likely that letting the priests build temples and us build academies will sprout a theological action we can take to burn RA, or a value that lets us do the same. And I don't expect us to have to do very much of this.
I mean from a certain perspective it actually make sense we can't drop RA easily with our civ. We've at least in part designed it such that the priests are our bastions of moral certainty and protectors of our values, and that stuff should not be able to dislodge them. Thus it makes sense to me we have trouble lowering it when you combine it with our somewhat primitive theology.
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Astra Stargazer
Comma Queen
- Location
- In a book, somewhere around here...
We should pair up the academy action with building a library, as we need a few priest actions for their quest anyway. This way we can counteract the detriments of our academy building simultaneously, as well. Also, should we get the opportunity, during either a gilded/golden age or when we finish the dam, we should start on the Great Library, because it probably also significantly counteracts the academy's negatives.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's sort of the problem though. I don't think we will have the actions to fit in a library as well. Now if an Infra would get up and do it *hint hint Guilds* I'd love that.
I totally see the point of doing them, and its a good idea which makes a good lot of sense, but I'm not sure we can actually do it. If I was I'd be going for it instead.
Astra Stargazer
Comma Queen
- Location
- In a book, somewhere around here...
I guess we will need to see how all of the changes next turn affect our action economy, 'cause it's probably gonna be nuts.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We're gonna have less personal actions now, several guild actions, a few patrician actions and a buttload of passives. I think our provinces will mostly stay the same though.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We're probably going to integrate Txolla very soon after we found a few more Free Cities to boost our province count even further.
Okay. Even if we discount the issue of degrading our Mysticism discount, Academies should not be at the top of our list. Off the top of my head, a secondary spent building a GP would prompt our infrastructure policies to finish it off, and would probe FAR more useful, delivering the same RA tolerance as well as the all-important next point of Tech discount. Other top contenders for action spots include restoring stability, restoring Econ, continuing to build the dam, influencing our newest Vassal, starting repeated actions... and whatever else will come up on top of all this. And those are just the urgent things that we know about so far; I'm absolutely certain that the next turn will add more to our plate.
Oh, yes. Getting back to the Mysticism refund. If you take a look at our action, most indeed fall under 2 mysticism. The exceptions are:
{M} Study Alchemy: -4 Mysticism, -8 Wealth, -1 Econ, +1 Tech, increased chance of new discoveries x2
{M} Study Health: -1 Econ, -4 Wealth, -3 Mysticism, -1 Tech, increased odds of success x2
{S} Support Sacred Orders: -3 Econ, -3 Mysticism, -12 Wealth, +5 Martial, +1 Light Cavalry, +2 Culture, other effects
{M} Support Sacred Orders: -4 Econ, -4 Mysticism, -14 Wealth, +7 Martial, +2 Light Cavalry, +3 Culture, other effects
Critically, we also have EXTENDED PROJECTS which require Mysticism: the Library and the Observatory. These are the very libraries we need to restore said discount, so we would be losing 2 guaranteed Mysticism here right off the bat.
To make matters worse, the Great Library requires 3 Mysticism per turn as well, which is another 5-7 Mysticism sacrificed for nothing, assuming we start said Great Library before we are able to build our discounts back up. Given how hard it is to find an action to plop down a library, I suspect that this is somewhat unlikely.
In total, even if we don't take any study actions or whatnot, we are liable to lose a good half-dozen stat points due to losing this discount. That is nearly as much as a full GA Innovation purchase! Not worth it; at all.
You want to get RA tolerance? Start work on a GP.
You want an Academy in particular? Find time to build a Library in Redshore, and then spend a secondary on the Lvl2 Library (the policies will handle the rest). It would be nice to see what that next-level library does, after all. THEN, we can build an Academy for you.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
what a misleading name
they're literally just saying "we know plants can be used to clean up radiation, heavy metals, and chemical spills. We're trying it with our native Australian plants because a) no one has done it with them before, and b) our environment is something non-natives struggle to survive in.
I don't want the cent down-shift, personally.
But dat tech refund...
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ah I forgot the GP was a thing. That's a nice alternative.
As to the mysticism and its refund, like I said I don't care. I don't want to build a library, or start the Great Library(I want the Canal actually), or an observatory any time in the near future(two to three turns). I don't feel like its worth it right now to try to put our discount back when I don't plan on spending much if any Mysticism anyway. Additionally, to "lose" the half a dozen stat points you talk about we would have to do two of those extended projects or one and the mega. What would we drop from your list of urgent things in order to do them in this hypothetical next turn?
To further expand in another tangent to this, your dislike of Academies for this use and temples and such is likely to just make it harder for us to get the release valve you and I both want. The tolerance given by academies, and general theological base from temples is what in real life lets people deal with religions in their societies. Also, I find your comparison to Golden Age or Gilded Age purchases and in general your linking everything together with stat points to be a poor one since they usually give completely different things and again we would have to actually build those things you talk about in the first place. A GA Myst innovation could give a material tech for ten Myst, and then we have a Great Library which reworks a huge portion of our knowledge and intellectual structure for a cost in the next ballpark over. I find no point in comparing them based on stats.
My preference now is to start a GP now that I remember they give RA tolerance and not really spend Mysticism(While I did say that most of the actions I would take cost more than 3, I'll clarify and say that I don't really plan on taking them anyway, which is what the "likely" meant). For probably the next two turns except for GA innovations.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
well we need roads anyway, though.
We wouldn't have to do those things next turn, though, just before we rebuilt the libraries.
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Astra Stargazer
Comma Queen
- Location
- In a book, somewhere around here...
I wonder if we can get an integration passive...