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Paths of Civilization

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Sivantic said:
So your reasoning...is that you think we are going to get another pair of nat 100.
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You don't need nat 100s to convert econ into martial. You just need combat, which can happen before income.

Reminder, we will literally be at zero econ. Any costs immediately have the chance to starve us. This is before you get into the fact that Levies can just fail their plague roll and lose econ that way.

To be clear, I was all for Levies before the update. I wanted to get this done and sorted.

Then we found out we had four econ.

Levies significantly increases the chance us of outright dying now. If we can get the job done with Offense and significantly reduce the chances of that happening, why would we stay on Levies? This is needlessly dangerous.
 
Sivantic said:
So your reasoning...is that you think we are going to get another pair of nat 100.

That is what you are afraid of.

My point is that we would not win in one phase.

Phase 1
We start government projects
We remove them from the Lowlands
We have a choice what to do next
Phase 2
Income comes in
First few projects finish
We take down the Highlanders

We would have the Econ in time.
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No, we may not, since with Levy we lose econ every phase, regardless of how the war goes. And if those loses right now would come before income, starvation and stability loss. Though, actually, since it's only for less then one phase, maybe it wouldn't hurt as much? Still risky.
 
@Academia Nut, does Mass Levy convert Econ to Martial per phase by default regardless of how well we roll(except maybe outside a crit fail)? And if so how much?
 
[X] [Marriage] From one of the Forhuch tribes to secure their loyalty
[X] [Main] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Dam
[X] [Secondary] Dam x2
[X] [Secondary] Annex - Great Hall
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Switch Policy - Offensive
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Mills
 
BungieONI said:
Nope.

Here is the AN quote which says -3 is normal.


Alyx gave us another +6 on top of that because he won so hard.
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BungieONI said:
No.

Mass Levy by default has us convert 3 Econ into 3 Martial, regardless of who is leading them. That's what the "naturally" means.

E: And that's not even including the disease rolls.
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While I certainly note and acknowledge your concerns of running out of econ as valid, you are misunderstanding the mechanics of the Econ->Martial conversion.
Academia Nut said:
AN: You may notice that the Econ and Martial on the front page has changed. Levies will eat up Econ through logistics disruption and disease in the camps, but they can also convert Econ to martial. Your Genius general won so hard that a massive amount got converted this turn, along with other issues. Also, Tech dropped to keep trade going, but since Wealth is already at max a min of 2 was converted and then overflowed to Diplo.
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It is not guaranteed and the size of the transfer specifically had to do with how hard we won.

It's pretty safe to assume that the 3 Econ -> 3 Martial conversion is something we can expect for an 'at max' conversion rate for the moment. The two exceptions to this that I can postulate to exist at this time are that this might be effected by the number of war missions taken and a genius general rolling nothing but crits.

I'd also be rather... surprised, if he was at all capable of converting Econ that doesn't exist into martial.

I do acknowledge your points about being worried about things like disease camps and such though. Still, it pays to have a better grasp of the mechanics.
 
Susano said:
Who writes those examinations? (the literacy tests of the Deep South come to mind, or the Chinese bureaucratic exams demanding esoteric knowledge about classical literature and so on.) Who grades them? Etc.

I would call that a self-perpetuating bureaucracy, which ultimately leads to a self-perpetuating bureaucratic elite class. Which is more or less what we have in place: The Patricians keep to power through connections and the monopolization of knowledge in a technically, theoretically open system.
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Well not just theoretically remember that time we made a nomad king? Don't know if a system can be much more open than that. That case set a very interesting precedent that I expect to important in the future.
 
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Umi-san said:
Hiking and going on tinder and so forth is good, but there's always steam.


My concern is, mostly, with figuring out which places are going to be flooded with nomads, how much of the eastern mountain range our new vassal occupies and whether it connects completely with the range MoS occupies. I'm also partially concerned with what land we end up taking from the HK and whether the land we gain from the war will result in a cheap cross-river canal.

I.e., if we take some of the Harmurri's land we can be at this one place where the distance is only about 3/2 times the size of the Triangle Canal.
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is that meant to be 'two to three' or 1.5?

fictionfan said:
Well not just theoretically remember that time we made a nomad king? Don't know if a system can be much more open than that. That case set a very interesting precedent that I expect to important in the future.
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that was a *long* time ago, though.
 
I see that offensive policy took the lead overnight. I can get behind that.

It's good to hear that the Storm Ymaryn are probably sincere. Still, alliances with peer powers generally haven't gone so well for us. Cementing vassal loyalty seems like a safer bet, plus should erode Purity.

[X]PrimalShadow
 
@Academia Nut

Two things.

How many forests does Alyx think are needed to meaningfully impede Nomad invasions?



What actions does Alyx recommend if we want the army (or at least mercenaries) to build military infrastructure during peace time?

Like Walls. Roads. Watchtowers. Roads. Forts, Roads.

But mostly roads.

Jokes aside, it should be clear by now that Mass Levy or any big military campaigns need impressive logistics networks to back them up and it's better to have that network in place when the Levy is called rather than the clerks having to try and get everything organized on the fly.


So maybe something like:

Megaproject: The Thousand Forts

A vast network of prepared bases the warriors are based in during peacetime. These act as centre of patrols and supply depots for armies on the march.

Bonus to Mass Levy casualty rolls and defence rolls. Armies are faster at the target.
 
PrimalShadow said:
It helps that there was a working plan pushing Offensive Policy by morning, and then AN came in and said that our Genius "would like the support of an Offensive policy or multiple Main strength war missions if possible."
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And more specifically, that the competing 1.5-mains plan would
Academia Nut said:
Maul the mercenary companies, still unsure about the damage to the Highlanders, although it should be significant.
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In other words, even with 3/8 of our effort dedicated to fighting them our merc companies might die and the Highlanders might not even be pushed out of the lowlands.

This plan does mean we can't react at all though if we want to keep our cities. We're locking into [React] Expand Econ, [PSN] Expand Econ. Thanks to the upcoming Ironworks that'll be +28 Econ and -12 (+4) tech, which will reduce our EE by just barely enough to let us get the cities back online in time for the Urban Poor quest.

The Megaproject Support plan let us use our PSN/React however we thought it would be most useful. This one locks us in.
 
DakkaMania said:
Jokes aside, it should be clear by now that Mass Levy or any big military campaigns need impressive logistics networks to back them up and it's better to have that network in place when the Levy is called rather than the clerks having to try and get everything organized on the fly.
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I wouldn't be surprised if a proto form of barracks exists behind Fortifications + Arsenal synergy (I think our current Arsenal is high enough, but we would probably need lvl 2 fortifications) that allows governor's palaces to act as central forts.

Why hello feudalism, I didn't think I'd be forced to admit you might be needed in some form so we could actually respond to threats in a somewhat timely manner due to our immense size.

:(

That won't be pretty.
 
@Academia Nut : We have a library of mistake and ways that things have been done wrong for artisans. We do we also have a similar library like that for political mistakes? So that Kings and other politicians can learn from the past? Is it classified?
 
[X] [Main] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Switch Policy - Offensive
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Grand Hall
[X] [Secondary] Dam
[X] [Secondary] Dam x2
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Mills

[X] [Marriage] From one of the Forhuch tribes to secure their loyalty

I'm okay with this.
 
ThrawnCA said:
Yes, I caught up :)

I guess we'll find out whether Alex was just being modest. He's used to fighting horse archers, the HK armies will be much more vulnerable.
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Depends on what they're up to.

If they are super focused on war? We can use our cavalry to blind side them and harass their armies to death.

If they are paying attention to us? Alex now has to fight a completely different war with an army that doesn't have the advantage of 'enough doods'.

Mills innovations would be one of our most likely saving graces here. Either that or him rolling really well again.
 
ThrawnCA said:
Wait, why? Once you get past the initial costs, the offensive plan actually returns quite a bit of Econ. One Expand Econ should be heaps. And there's a survey happening. PSN should be able to do something else.
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Its Expansion which is the issue, if you go back and look at the update. We have to get below 20 Expansion in the mid turn or we lose all of our cities.

With Two Main Expand Econs from PSN and React we have +28 Econ and -24 Expansion(after overflow refund), so we safely end up from 43ish to 19 Expansion.
 
BungieONI said:
does Mass Levy convert Econ to Martial per phase by default regardless of how well we roll(except maybe outside a crit fail)? And if so how much?
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Yes, typically 1 to 2, but 3 or 4 is possible if the roll is particularly poor. If you gain Martial from fighting you also convert an equal amount of Econ to Martial.

DakkaMania said:
How many forests does Alyx think are needed to meaningfully impede Nomad invasions?

What actions does Alyx recommend if we want the army (or at least mercenaries) to build military infrastructure during peace time?
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That entirely depends on where the forests are and how they are managed. For your whole territory... uhh... probably between four and a dozen times as much.

No idea.

fictionfan said:
We have a library of mistake and ways that things have been done wrong for artisans. We do we also have a similar library like that for political mistakes? So that Kings and other politicians can learn from the past? Is it classified?
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Yes. Some mistakes are learned from, some have the wrong lesson learned, many have "Wow that was stupid, I'll never do that (Narrator: He did do that)".
 
BungieONI said:
With Two Main Expand Econs from PSN and React we have +28 Econ and -24 Expansion(after overflow refund), so we safely end up from 43ish to 19 Expansion.
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Where does the 43 come from? We have 30 right now, and mills will give us more LTE but will also fill it. So... after spending our last 4, we should have 34 EE, which one Expand plus overflow should handle, right?
 
@Academia Nut
Not sure if ignoring these questions or missed them, reposting:

1) Why did the [React] Festival not count for the priest quest?
2) How many war missions did we have last turn? We got a main equivalent from the kick, but since we weren't at war during the main turn I'm not sure what else we had.
3) Do the HK have cavalry?
4) The Salterns list seems to be outdated, you may want to fix that.
 
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