BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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True if I was still pushing for an Academy. But my background context has shifted instead to pushing a GP so we don't lose the myst refund at all.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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- ꙮ
I don't think shifting our tolerance downward increases the tolerance we can gain.
- Location
- USA
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- He/Him
No but we don't really need to be at 20 centralization or whatever, we need roads for interconnectivity more.
Astra Stargazer
Comma Queen
- Location
- In a book, somewhere around here...
Yeah, I hadn't thought of the Governor's palaces either. They're gonna be a hell of lot more important by the time we finish up all this conquering and integration Alyx has us doing. Especially since they gate the connectivity cap.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
@Academia Nut : How difficult would it be to move our capital to Redshore?
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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We need one in Xohyr for sure. Its pretty centrally located for our easternmost minions. Its also an excellent trade hub for Us-Harmurri-The East as it sits right on the Txocholi/Urri river. The East River. Which also incidentally makes it a good place for the Us-The East-Harmurri-Not!Indian Ocean trade route and that is lucrative. Imagine the Silk Road and the Indian Ocean having trade babies.
Its also been a True City before so reworking it and refurbishing it is sorta a cultural imperative.
Astra Stargazer
Comma Queen
- Location
- In a book, somewhere around here...
@Academia Nut Could you please elaborate what it takes to have passive policy options form? Like, how consistent with libraries, gymnasiums, and acadamies would we have to be before we developed an education policy, for example?
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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- ꙮ
So basically you're just stating a fact irrelevant to my statement? Kk.
I would put them on a GA track and do it that way. Same way I advocate doing any and all Megaprojects.
Source on academies helping deal with religion IRL, please.
We have factions now. Just because you don't plan to take them doesn't mean they won't get taken.
In practice, we are literally trading off the two against each other. Ten points spent on the Library MP or whatever means we have ten less stat points to spend on GA innovations. Since GAs start as soon as we have the stats (well, guilded ages do, anyways) you can't even complain that we wouldn't have the chance to make those GA purchases.
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Okay, I'll spell it out in more detail? I think building GPs is fine because I think we should build more roads to increase interconnectivity, and they balance out to leave us with an acceptable centralization range.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Interesting way to do it. But to put your own argument on this regard we may not get the option to put the Great Library on a GA track.
https://www.sensepublishers.com/media/881-religious-tolerance-education-and-the-curriculum.pdf
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09637490903500507?journalCode=crss20
One Nation, Many Gods
In the above its more a case of education in general which academies provide which helps religious tolerance. As people can get the context to properly grasp more complex ideas they can more easily choose to harness the thoughts which lead to tolerance, like you can also see this in the simple progression of history and application of logic where as education increased throughout the ages(oft times provided by churches) that tolerance or at least debate of religions increased.
To apply it to the quest, what do you think the "+1 Religious tolerance" actually means? How would AN explain it in-universe when it is actually written about in an update?
Good point on the factions, but the most likely one on the list to spend for those, the priests, is pretty low power. I'm not sure if they would lose out and only be able to pick every other action cycle. Besides with my switch to pushing for GP's I could not care less about the mysticism refund since I am not losing it yet.
I can actually sorta complain(though not about the chance to take it), since most times we can spend mysticism its usually a matsci tech or something similar and we don't seem to get religious innovations from it that I recall. While other stuff is like admin or financial or cultural innovations, which I personally value more than those matsci ideas since those lag by a large amount. As to Library MP or GA innovations, the answer is that we actually don't need to care. At 3 income per turn and 3 cost per turn a GA Track Library MP is neutral on costs so we can take GA innovations, except on the initial cost which seems to be wealth. Additionally overflow is a really powerful tool and Culture income pays for most of it. The biggest cost is choosing not to take an innovation, which I already expressed only modicum of interest in, and intead take a MP track.
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Astra Stargazer
Comma Queen
- Location
- In a book, somewhere around here...
I believe that if we put religious authority tolerance into narrative form, it would be how powerful the priests can get without having an adverse effect on our society. Things like zealotry, bigotry, fundamentalism, and narrow-mindedness are cancer to the intellectual powerhouse our country is in its current form, and the preventative measures, as well as the excision of those cancers are the general awareness and theological capability of our citizens. If we do not wish to become another Highland Kingdom, but still wish to continue benefiting from a powerful and well founded belief system, we need our citizens to be educated.
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...It's always interesting to see people tout religion as a great opponent of science.
It is not as if businesses or governments ever try to stand in the way of science after all. Copyrights and patents and regulatory agencies never prevent new technology from being discovered or utilized.
And the great number of discoveries and scientific advancements made by clergy during the Renaissance is surely a coincidence. As are the numerous schools sponsored by religious orders.
To be more serious, I do not expect high RA to limit our innovations so much as our choices.
It is not as if businesses or governments ever try to stand in the way of science after all. Copyrights and patents and regulatory agencies never prevent new technology from being discovered or utilized.
And the great number of discoveries and scientific advancements made by clergy during the Renaissance is surely a coincidence. As are the numerous schools sponsored by religious orders.
To be more serious, I do not expect high RA to limit our innovations so much as our choices.
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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- ꙮ
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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It is interesting, and I thought that before I joined this quest, but now looking around its quite interesting to see that the church actually had quite a bit to do with science. It certainly clarifies some things I only really half-knew.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
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Astra Stargazer
Comma Queen
- Location
- In a book, somewhere around here...
For fundamentalist Christianity, in areas lacking quality standardized education. It's blind, dogmatic zealotry that's the problem, not necessarily religious belief in general. Many of history's finest intellectuals had religious beliefs or training. Also our religion significantly values intellectual truth above tradition.
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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- ꙮ
Yes, and the invention of mendelian genetics is strongly and directly correlated with the existence of monasteries...
The very article you linked to makes it rather clear that evolution is denied not so much by religion itself but by evangelical protestants and minorities- the proportion for 'white mainline protestants' who give credence to the theory of evolution is in fact higher than 'unaffiliated' who presumably are not very religious. This indicates that evolution-denial is not really a religious issue as it is a cultural one.
And yeah, that puts aside that the fact that most religions including Catholicism have no issue reconciling their religious doctrine with the evidence of evolution.
I don't mind quoting Isaac Asimov on this one: "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
Anti-intellectualism is a phenomenon that often uses religion to justify itself, but it is typically a cultural phenomenon moreso than it is a religious one.
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...Yeah, okay. I am not sure what we're gonna be getting with Gilded Age. Mills, mills, and more mills suggests that mechanization might be a possibility.
Frankly we need roads more than anything else... Although railroads would be even better and a primitive steam engine isn't that outlandish. That's probably a very faint hope, but if we could get railroads maintaining a farflung empire would get a lot more plausible.
Frankly we need roads more than anything else... Although railroads would be even better and a primitive steam engine isn't that outlandish. That's probably a very faint hope, but if we could get railroads maintaining a farflung empire would get a lot more plausible.
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- Location
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That's not what I'm talking about though at all. I'm saying that I think we don't need to get a huge tolerance range and maintaining the status quo is fine. I don't see how this is unclear.
There's really no point to rush integrating Txolla, at least until we've got the Lowland Canal built and that's at least five turns away, likely several more.
Txolla makes it super easy for us to generate EE which, ironically, doesn't give us too much. We can generate enough EE that we always have enough to run our Economy; even if we destroy EE willy-nilly, we can regain it through overflow or Black Soil/New Settlements. It's often more important for us to limit EE because of how we built our society. All getting access to a super easy source of it is going to do is cause our cities to pop. Even our Free Cities could be at risk of popping like they are this turn. Once the Yeoman get actions, they're going to go all in on popping cities by laying down New Settlements or Black Soil + Expand Forests.
Taking our time until the canal is built allows us to urbanize as much as possible in order to prevent our Free Cities being exceptionally vulnerable to popping. The reason that we can be so urban is because we're on marginal land, as soon as we get to the good stuff, the balance of our whole society will majorly shift.
What would really benefit us would be some way to convert EE back to Econ. Every turn we're stuck usually doing 2 [Main] Expand Economy each turn, one during the Main turn on Balanced policy and usually one from PSN. We use a lot of actions to flip EE back to Econ. Having that taken care of would go a long way to allowing us to do other things and drill down on more elective stuff like roads or forests.
If you want to make roads a lot easier to get, vote for picking up Wildcat Prospecting or Pioneering Spirit from the Storm Ymaryn with PiA. They would allow us to reduce Centralization much easier so the 7 Cent we're looking at from Roads would be easier to stomach. The both of them would also make Enforce Justice much more available as well.
There's a difference between having high RA and being over our RA limit. It's similar to Centralization. I remember (vaguely) a comment AN made about modern, western civilization being something like Centralization 30-40 on the scale we operate under. It works relatively well in modern times, but that would turn our empire into an impossible to move brick. There's only so much RA we can tolerate before the delicate machine of civilization fails.
Too low RA means our culture doesn't respect its values, remember its history and has nothing to bind itself together. Too much RA makes people dogmatic, fundamentalist, and narrow-minded. The thing is, what qualifies as 'too little' or 'too much' changes based on our level of sophistication. The relative limits matter here, not the absolute numbers. That's why Academies and GPs are so good, they allow us to enjoy more of the good parts of religion without having to deal with the negatives.
We might get some variation of catapults. We just got balista and I remember we originally got Bolt Throwers from a Build Mills innovation. Considering our Genius Martial and the fact we're going to be invading a heavily fortified enemy, we might see innovation in that direction.
As for railroads, not likely. We simply don't have the insane amounts of iron necessary to make that feasible. Maybe in mines you might find rails, but for general transport? That has to wait until the industrial revolution.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA, United States
@Academia Nut
So, I'm rereading the thread and I'm still at the very beginning, still I got to this update. Basically, the People gave their food away though they were starving but the Fishing village were not charitable and hoarded food. The rains fell and then the fishes left but the People were still charitable to them. Even tough things from this long ago are distorted beyond all hell (say hi Crow!) but is this story of charity preserved in some way? It feels like too good of a narrative to be forgotten entirely.
So, I'm rereading the thread and I'm still at the very beginning, still I got to this update. Basically, the People gave their food away though they were starving but the Fishing village were not charitable and hoarded food. The rains fell and then the fishes left but the People were still charitable to them. Even tough things from this long ago are distorted beyond all hell (say hi Crow!) but is this story of charity preserved in some way? It feels like too good of a narrative to be forgotten entirely.
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