Well, typically infrastructure happens in cities, and cities are the enemy of farms...
Most infrastructure is indeed in cities but there also the small towns and villages that mostly support the farmland around them that can be extended/improved. A lot of the unskilled work that does not have to happen at a fixed time is done by farmers in the off season and part of the workers of the towns go to the farms in there busiest times. Things that can be build here to increase there productivity, like water mills for grain and wood, small scale forges building and repairing tools improved irrigation systems to increase the productivity of farms and workshops turning farming goods into easier shipped finished products like the cheese factory near where i live where the farmers would ship milk to in large cans and turn it into cheese that could be shipped without cooling to the cities.

As a project i would call it "Rural infrastructure" and as a effect i would suggest that it reduces upkeep for cities or provide economy.
 
We can repeat yeomen actions, turning them into double mains. It's just that there are side effects, particularly increasing their faction power.

I'm unclear whether that allows us to specify which action they should repeat, or whether they just get a double main of whatever they want. But if they get a faction power boost, that probably means the crown has input on what they're actually doing.

AN changed it into "Repeating faction action makes it into a main with cost of secondary", not "double main ho", IIRC.
And I had it in mind, yes, but we can get, like, 4 turns of it before Yeomen are Patrician-tier in power. Not a reliable long-term thing.

I suggest putting watchtowers on repeat first to get that out of the way before focusing on road.

That works too I guess...in fact, Watchtowers actually are better off as our repeated action and Roads as yeomen repeated, because Roads are way more expensive.

Cultural diffusion to neighbouring states should be basically automatic. We trade with them continually. It's not something that state actors would be involved in, or even would be possible to arrange with this level of cultural sophistication. Once we've opened the door to influencing their elites like this it should also continue automatically. It's something that happens both above and below the levels that states can directly take actions to control.

We can influence it by keeping trade flowing, and symbolic steps like this to encourage intermingling of the elites, along with things like investing in things that makes Ymaryn a better and more successful nation, but they're things we want to do anyway. You don't invest resources to spread values. Your values spread because you invest resources in things that make people want to emulate you. Stopping it is something you have to invest resources to do, as the Highland Kingdom did.

For example the Eastern Roman Empire's government didn't need to take direct action to create the ideal of Rome in the peoples of the Rus. This is the same thing.

Looking at the the People's colonies, they almost broke away because they lost economic dependence, not because of cultural splits. The Storm Ymaryn are closer in real terms to the Core than Txolla has ever been, as the Ymaryn Sea is like a super-canal.


And yet in this game Stallion Tribes drifted to having some nomadic values (Ancestral Honour) which we lacked. So clearly passive influence alone is not enough - probably due to flagging cultural life of Ymaryn with, like, a couple of theaters and three-four major temples in the whole kingdom.
And besides, in this game Trade is either a passive policy or an active action; what it does on its own is not enough.


The example with ERE is because of ERE investing quite a lot into showing off cultural superiority. Having millenia-old culture of classical world to work with, all the plays and dramas and sheer cultural inertia of highly sophisticated Greek, Roman, Persian, Egyptian and other cultures of a Roman sphere helps a lot.

Once we have a theater or three, big temple, governors palace and several libraries in every single big city we can think about passive cultural influence being enough to Ymarinyfy the region. We are far away from such a point. If you want to culturally influence everyone around in our direction, push for temples and theaters, or something along those lines.
 
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It's just that the only way they lose power is by going against what we want.

You realize this is an argument for working against them, right? We don't want them becoming too powerful, and the only meaningful way of preventing that is acting against them (either because it our actions lower their power, or because they spend said power on interfering). So unless you can explain why unchecked power growth of the aristocracy is a good thing, I'm not sold.
 
On the Democracy-Autocracy scale we're somewhere in between Oligarchy and Autocracy.
The Ymaryn are more democratic than you think. Clan patriarchs (and matriarchs) elect local chiefs, who appoint local officials and elect provincial chiefs, who appoint provincial officials and, along with priests, shamans and certain high-level government officials (war chief, etc.) elect the king.

The Ymaryn Empire is clearly a de facto oligarchy, but legally we are a representative democracy with somewhat limited franchise.
 
And yet it is not free even in our eastern colonies. Thunder Horse and Toxalla explicitly do not have most of their population Ymarynized. Creating a cultural ideal is one thing, that is the City on the Hill legacy, actually diffusing values and culture is quite another.

Txolla and the Thunder Horse are much further away from the Ymaryn Core in practical terms than the Storm Ymaryn are, and aren't at least partially a successor civilization from it. Note how there's such a volume of trade on the Ymaryn Sa that we can transport iron ore and support multiple cities with block housing. That will also transmit culture alongside goods. We've recently substantially increased the volume of trade with the Storm Ymaryn as well.

And yet in this game Stallion Tribes drifted to having some nomadic values (Ancestral Honour) which we lacked. So clearly passive influence alone is not enough - probably due to flagging cultural life of Ymaryn with, like, a couple of theaters and three-four major temples in the whole kingdom.
And besides, in this game Trade is either a passive policy or an active action; what it does on its own is not enough.

The example with ERE is because of ERE investing quite a lot into showing off cultural superiority. Having millenia-old culture of classical world to work with, all the plays and dramas and sheer cultural inertia of highly sophisticated Greek, Roman, Persian, Egyptian and other cultures of a Roman sphere helps a lot.

Once we have a theater or three, big temple, governors palace and several libraries in every single big city we can think about passive cultural influence being enough to Ymarinyfy the region. We are far away from such a point. If you want to culturally influence everyone around in our direction, push for temples and theaters, or something along those lines.

The fact that cultural diffusion goes in both directions at the margins does not disprove the existence of cultural diffusion, or that the culture with the greater scale and advantages generally ends up as the dominant influence. They still stayed mostly Ymaryn, and retained the bulk of those core values despite their lifestyle significantly changing. The Stallion tribes are also deep, deep in the past, when the Ymaryn core was vastly smaller and less influential.

The cultural superiority of the Ymaryn manifests in different ways to the Greco-Roman one. We have organised religion in a way that they didn't, and we have much more sophisticated technology, which, given it will be like/is magic to outsiders will have the same kind of impact.

Marrying into and getting our hooks into the Storm Ymaryn nobility will also give us routes of influence that the Romans were very unwilling to use, as the children of barbarians weren't considered Roman, and it was unusual for them to try things like inviting foreign princes for a Roman education. The Ymaryn education system would be the envy of the world, and our patricians could invite their Storm Ymaryn nephews to attend.
 
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AN changed it into "Repeating faction action makes it into a main with cost of secondary", not "double main ho", IIRC.
And I had it in mind, yes, but we can get, like, 4 turns of it before Yeomen are Patrician-tier in power. Not a reliable long-term thing.

That works too I guess...in fact, Watchtowers actually are better off as our repeated action and Roads as yeomen repeated, because Roads are way more expensive.

Secondary and Main Watchtowers cost the same though, so repeating it gets us no benefit at all. They were the biggest loser of the change to repeated actions.
 
Txolla and the Thunder Horse are much further away from the Ymaryn Core in practical terms than the Storm Ymaryn are, and aren't at least partially a successor civilization from it. Note how there's such a volume of trade on the Ymaryn Sa that we can transport iron ore and support multiple cities with block housing. That will also transmit culture alongside goods. We've recently substantially increased the volume of trade with the Storm Ymaryn as well.

Toxalla is considerably closer than the Storm Ymaryn who are beyond even Greenshore and it has been under Ymaryn administration and he direct cultural influence that implies for hundreds of years, yet most of the population still has not been ymarinized.
 
Toxalla is considerably closer than the Storm Ymaryn who are beyond even Greenshore and it has been under Ymaryn administration and he direct cultural influence that implies for hundreds of years, yet most of the population still has not been ymarinized.

Txolla may be closer in distance than the Storm Ymaryn. That doesn't matter though, as they're much further away in travel time, as you can reach the Storm Ymaryn by sailing across the Ymaryn Sea and then up the not Danube. The difference shouldn't be small, it's well over an order of magnitude.

That's how much faster shipping is than travel over land. Particularly when you have catamarans for high value cargo or communications. Parts of the Ymaryn Core are probably further away in time from Redshore than parts of the Storm Ymaryn Core.
 
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So unless you can explain why unchecked power growth of the aristocracy is a good thing, I'm not sold.
It's just that if we can get them to mostly do what we want, then the full power of the faction system will largely follow our agenda... And that's a lot of power.

If we could trust the patricians not to be jerks, then giving them power would mean that any other faction can be empowered according to current circumstances. They can support the yeomen to boost a war, block the priests if RA gets red, whatever needs doing. And they can take almost any action. If only we could find a way to get them more-or-less loyal.
 
Txolla may be closer in distance than the Storm Ymaryn. That doesn't matter though, as they're much further away in travel time, as you can reach the Storm Ymaryn by sailing across the Ymaryn Sea and then up the not Danube. The difference shouldn't be small, it's well over an order of magnitude.

That's how much faster shipping is than travel over land. Particularly when you have catamarans for high value cargo or communications.

Shipping is faster on a per journey basis, but it is also more expensive (ships are not cheap) and it has less raw volume of people involved. Ultimately it comes down to the fact that we have had problems with slow cultural assimilation and even cultural divergence with parts of the land we own. Under those circumstances I do not trust the notion that we will be able to influence a peer power we do not even border directly.
 
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Txolla may be closer in distance than the Storm Ymaryn. That doesn't matter though, as they're much further away in travel time, as you can reach the Storm Ymaryn by sailing across the Ymaryn Sea and then up the not Danube. The difference shouldn't be small, it's well over an order of magnitude.

That's how much faster shipping is than travel over land. Particularly when you have catamarans for high value cargo or communications. Parts of the Ymaryn Core are probably further away in time from Redshore than parts of the Storm Ymaryn Core.
Storm Ymaryn are somewhere in the Carpathians and Carpathian Basin though, so not exactly on Danube.
 
Shipping is faster on a per journey basis, but it is also more expensive (ships are not cheap) and it has less raw volume of people involved. Ultimately it comes down to the fact that we have had problems with slow cultural assimilation and even cultural divergence with parts of the land we own. Under those circumstances I do not trust the nation that we will; be able to influence a peer power we do not even border directly.

We can bulk ship food on the Ymaryn Seas to support block housing in our port cities. We can't support block housing in our non-coastal cities because our over-land transport is that much worse than our over-sea transport. That indicates that when it comes to volume as well as time, our shipping is superior.

Cultural diffusion is not the same as complete cultural assimilation. We can spread our values without making people our clones. Making other people more similar to us by cultural diffusion is much easier than enforcing a monoculture of our own.

Storm Ymaryn are somewhere in the Carpathians and Carpathian Basin though, so not exactly on Danube.

The Danube flows through the Carpathian Basin. One of it's major tributaries, the also navigable Tisza is the major river for the rest of it.

We wouldn't be able to trade iron ore in the quantities we apparently do without this kind of link.

Edit. This quote strongly suggests that the Storm Ymaryn may actually hold a section of the Yllthon Sea coast:

In the good news department the People's trading partners on the Yllthon Sea responded by sending over boatloads of ore, dirt cheap, knowing that the People could process it far easier than they could and that the final product would generally be better than anything they could produce.

If they're a trading partner on the Yllthon Sea, they must be, well, on the Yllthon Sea. Presumably they've reoccupied the north west corner they'd previously abandoned.

This makes it much more important to influence them through marriage, as they're currently splitting our western vassals from territorial continuity with our northern one.

@Academia Nut, do the Storm Ymaryn have a Yllthon Sea port?
 
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The fact that cultural diffusion goes in both directions at the margins does not disprove the existence of cultural diffusion, or that the culture with the greater scale and advantages generally ends up as the dominant influence. They still stayed mostly Ymaryn, and retained the bulk of those core values despite their lifestyle significantly changing. The Stallion tribes are also deep, deep in the past, when the Ymaryn core was vastly smaller and less influential.

The cultural superiority of the Ymaryn manifests in different ways to the Greco-Roman one. We have organised religion in a way that they didn't, and we have much more sophisticated technology, which, given it will be like/is magic to outsiders will have the same kind of impact.

Marrying into and getting our hooks into the Storm Ymaryn nobility will also give us routes of influence that the Romans were very unwilling to use, as the children of barbarians weren't considered Roman, and it was unusual for them to try things like inviting foreign princes for a Roman education. The Ymaryn education system would be the envy of the world, and our patricians could invite their Storm Ymaryn nephews to attend.

Uh, nooooo.
ERE had very, very powerful monotheist Orthodox religion. In fact, its strength is one of big factors which made them so influental on Rus - it gave legitimacy to Rus rulers and basically is, likely, the biggest factor behind such influence.
Ymaryn religion is too syncretic (as opposed to Orthodox, well, orthodoxy and strict interpretations and traditionalism) to be nearly as powerful a cultural influencer as Orthodox christianity was. In return we gain faster spread and flexibility which allows it to evolve with times and bend instead of breaking as times go by. But still, we are never ever going to impose our views on other people via Mythaladism as well as Orthodox church could because of how flexible and open-minded it is.

And another aspect which makes our religion worse as a medium for cultural pressure than Byzantine orthodox church: it is, well, comparatively weak. We do not have a lot of temples, and they are not all that big. When we have several dozens big temples, or at the very least a big temple in every single big city we can talk about using it as a vector for cultural influence.

Before that...well, look at Highlanders. They took our religion's theological skills and instruments and none of our values and teachings. That's how "open-minded syncretic organized religion without a shitton of temples to back up one particular version of it" is going to go: inject its skills and a bit of values into the next generation, and that's about it.


Again, you are just not willing to invest for the sake of achieving goals. Yes, it is possible to go full Byzantium and culturally influence everyone into imitating us purely via passive cultural pressure - but you need to correspondingly invest into culture (Theaters, Libraries), religion (Temples, Libraries), advanced knowledge to impress people with (Libraries, Academies, Temples, Observatories) and so on. Plus, well, establishing relationships (Diplomatic Missions or at lest Diplomatic passives).
It is certainly possible, but again, it requires investment. No free lunch here.
 
It's just that if we can get them to mostly do what we want, then the full power of the faction system will largely follow our agenda... And that's a lot of power.

If we could trust the patricians not to be jerks, then giving them power would mean that any other faction can be empowered according to current circumstances. They can support the yeomen to boost a war, block the priests if RA gets red, whatever needs doing. And they can take almost any action. If only we could find a way to get them more-or-less loyal.

We don't just need to get them loyal, we need to keep them that way, indefinitely. Because if we keep letting their power rise unchecked (which happens with any faction we collaborate with), then if they're sitting at double-digit faction strength and decide they want something we'd really rather they not have (or otherwise have a major difference of opinion), they have access to the entire action list and there's not gonna be a damn thing we can do about it.

Also: not a huge fan of increasing the severity of our already-major social stratification, considering the impact that would have on our lower classes.
 
Well, maybe it's worthwhile for Tech.
I'd also say culture.

Our culture is trash at the moment and has been... forever? Yeah, pretty much forever.
The Ymaryn are more democratic than you think. Clan patriarchs (and matriarchs) elect local chiefs, who appoint local officials and elect provincial chiefs, who appoint provincial officials and, along with priests, shamans and certain high-level government officials (war chief, etc.) elect the king.

The Ymaryn Empire is clearly a de facto oligarchy, but legally we are a representative democracy with somewhat limited franchise.
A democracy is people voting for the laws and the direction the government takes and such.

It's a de facto Oligarchy, sure, but it's also a de jure Autocracy, because the King's authority is what makes the rules and laws.

The power is something of a middle ground between a select few holding immense power and a singular figure holding immense power. Thus my commenting we are in between an oligarchy and autocracy. Just because some things are put up to a vote doesn't make it a democracy.
 
I wonder if we can send diplomatic missions to the real Not!China now that we hold the end of the Silk/Salt Route. I don't think it would give all that many mechanical benefits, but it would be cool as hell.

Especially if we can get another cool first interaction scene like the one where the Khemetri met our traders in Txolla.
 
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A democracy is people voting for the laws and the direction the government takes and such.

It's a de facto Oligarchy, sure, but it's also a de jure Autocracy, because the King's authority is what makes the rules and laws.

Representative democracies are still democracies. If the Ymaryn population as a whole voted in our kings, that would be a democracy, even if the king still held absolute authority upon being elected. You can argue that it'd be a poor implementation of democracy, but it would still count as one.
 
I wonder if we can send diplomatic missions to the real Not!China now that we hold the end of the Silk/Salt Route. I don't think it would give all that many mechanical benefits, but it would be cool as hell.

Especially if we can get another cool first interaction scene like the one where the Khemetri met our traders in Txolla.

Probably not. They're really far away.

But we could probably send a trade mission to the Salt People, the one we met way back at the end of the Rage Against the Steppes arc.
 
Representative democracies are still democracies. If the Ymaryn population as a whole voted in our kings, that would be a democracy, even if the king still held absolute authority upon being elected. You can argue that it'd be a poor implementation of democracy, but it would still count as one.
The king does not represent the people, even if he ends up being elected by them through such an obtuse series of proxies as to make him effectively elected by the oligarchy only. The king represents divine will. That is his de jure claim.

Democracy is specifically when the populace has direct or indirect control over the government. This would roughly translate to de jure and de facto respectively.

The populace is not allowed a say in the laws made and the collective group of the average people do not have the power to leverage serious change over government in any way short of rebellion because of the power of the patricians.

This is actually very much by design, do in no small part that that would need to be a very decentralized government to function like that. The thread just isn't willing to give up the power of a centralized authority to achieve something at or near a democracy. We barely trust an oligarchy!
 
The Danube flows through the Carpathian Basin. One of it's major tributaries, the also navigable Tisza is the major river for the rest of it.
Sure, but they only recently have conquered the Basin, their core is in the mountains. We probably trade with their traders in the ports on the river or on the sea, but there is little cultural exchange with the core.
 
Are we sure that Ymaryn culture is fairly weak? We have been overflowing Culture for a pretty long time already. Even without theaters, there should be a vibrant cultural life.

The problem seems more that there isn't an empire wide mainstream. No trendsetters. The Core would be such but there aren't many big theaters to create a mainstream so the core is just flailing about.
 
Are we sure that Ymaryn culture is fairly weak? We have been overflowing Culture for a pretty long time already. Even without theaters, there should be a vibrant cultural life.

The problem seems more that there isn't an empire wide mainstream. No trendsetters. The Core would be such but there aren't many big theaters to create a mainstream so the core is just flailing about.

I always forget where the heck our Culture comes from. Feels like it's mostly overflow from Mysticism or something?
Nowadays it's also a tiny bit from Markets, which is nice, but still.
 
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