- Location
- Leeds
This isn't a question I ever thought needed to be asked but you proved me wrong.
- The Ymaryn are anti incest aren't they?
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It provides Econ, which is helpful both in war and during a currency crisis, allows a massively stronger military presence in the other area that nomads can attack from, and makes the Lowlands a more attractive target to the nomads due to its increased development. Easier Econ would also let us Support Subordinate - Heaven's Hawk, which would give them more room to build walls.
Though, yeah, I'd gotten mixed up on Heaven's Hawk's location for a moment since I don't consider that the primary nomad vector.
pretty sure the rose bush here is literal...
This really isn't a concern any more. The liquidity crisis was basically caused by there being too many people for the number of coins that could actually be minted. Our metal supply had never really increased but our population (as well as the population of our neighbours) had consistently been going up for a long time at an explosive rate. Eventually, we got to the point where there wasn't enough gold and silver to go around for everyone to make the transactions they needed to.
This isn't a concern right now. Not only have we built 3 new gold mines, but our population has take a major hit. Despite what our stats suggest by blatantly overflowing, hundreds of thousands of Ymaryn citizens are likely dead. Our supply of coins has done up and the population has gone down enough that we've got more coins than are necessary for transactions. The only issue that could arise is an inflationary spiral where we have too many coins which causes them to be individually worth less. Of course, that's simple for us to fix: the government can start buying up money to reduce the supply, build up a stockpile, and increase the value of each individual coin so the average person does't have to do something ridiculous and trade 10 bwyll for a loaf of bread where they used to use 1.
Additionally, Trelli is gone. They used up an enormous amount of the local supply of precious metals because of their mercantile nature and the extensive collection of mercenaries they had on hand. The Mountain Horse are gone, wiped away to the last and they were a major mercantile power, too. The Thunder Speakers are gone. Free Hill and the Harmurri are suffering and are unlikely to be in a place to start using currency again for the next little while. Even when they recover, they won't equal Trelli and the Mountain Horse at their height. Lastly, the Khemetri. Given they've abandoned their northern colonies, it's highly unlikely that we'll get back in contact with them soon. It took over 400 years for OTL Egypt to re-surge after the Bronze Age Collapse, and our last few turns are likely to be generating shock waves that severe.
The economy is simply no longer as interconnected or as large. Liquidity isn't going to be a problem, if anything, we're more likely to start experiencing problems with too much gold.
- Location
- United States
Nomads aren't ones for sieging, so I can't really imagine a scenario in which we are cut off from the Gold Mine and the Gold Mine is not looted/burned to the ground.
Nomads don't really do long, drawn out wars, so we can just crush their main horde and then let the rest scatter.
Or better yet, convince the Khan that taking on the heavily defended march filled with dudes is a bad idea and that he should just trade with us instead.
Er, no. Lots of Econ can very well make a currency crisis worse, because it means you need more coins circulating to cover every transaction.
Ymaryn understanding of finance currently hard-caps most of the economy by the amount of precious metals available; trying to push past this cap without increasing either metal supply or financial understanding is what causes currency crises.
And having the supply of precious metal unexpectedly drop (say, because invasion) is a good way to set such a crisis off.
Erm, the liquidity crises had to do with Wealth, not Econ.
Basically we need more precious metal to represent currency... Or lots of financial inventions for a more permanent solution.
That alone is probably a good reason to take a look at the Med after we sort out our minions and the plague. I'd rather not be surprised by a fuckton of refugees turned pirates sailing through the straits.
I'm assuming it would be like America after WWII - we took some damage but everyone else got thoroughly ruined and until they rebuild we'll enjoy a position of unprecedented prominence.
Assuming the plague doesn't get worse.
Yes! Time to ritually cleanse ourselves of lingering bad feelings.
- Location
- Huezil
Looking at map, we will basically turn the Western shore into the Highland Kingdom Territory, and the Eastern shore into Ymaryn/Core , Ymarin/Txolla area full of true cities.
Another interesting point for our foreign politics and eventual resurgence of neighbors:
With Trelli gone, there is no easy source of slaves in the region. Given the enormous dependence on slave labor, this should slow down their recovery significantly. Especially as the slaves were probably amongst the hardest hit given their likely living conditions.
I'm not sure if anyone will feel up to taking a swing at our outlying territories, but it's an argument to repair our military in the mid to longterm. Preferably using Light Cavalry. The martial pay-off is minimal compared to Raise Army, but we saw what 5+ Light Cavalry could cause. They punch way above their weight class and are ideal for an Empire of our size because they allow us very fast reaction while the Banners and Levies can roll up behind them to do the infantry work.
With Trelli gone, there is no easy source of slaves in the region. Given the enormous dependence on slave labor, this should slow down their recovery significantly. Especially as the slaves were probably amongst the hardest hit given their likely living conditions.
I'm not sure if anyone will feel up to taking a swing at our outlying territories, but it's an argument to repair our military in the mid to longterm. Preferably using Light Cavalry. The martial pay-off is minimal compared to Raise Army, but we saw what 5+ Light Cavalry could cause. They punch way above their weight class and are ideal for an Empire of our size because they allow us very fast reaction while the Banners and Levies can roll up behind them to do the infantry work.
More Light Cav, better internal logistics.
Also means to pay for the above, because Light Cav hasn't stopped being expensive. Good way to stay out of a Gilded Age, though.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ehh, I don't think Econ is a strong indicator of total population. It's only the portion of population that we can shift around.
Further, excess Econ means excess food, which means we have the ability to feed the people who can't get coins, thereby avoiding the worst consequence of a liquidity crisis. I mean, we've been operating with an isolated economy currently; a liquidity crisis won't be worse than that.
Yes, and in that situation, we can maneuver out of it more easily if we have extra Econ, because we then have a wider range of actions we can take.
Look at the actions we had for the last liquidity crisis event:
Liquidity crisis continues, what do do?
[] [LC] Blame rich hoarders (Patricians and Traders -1 Faction Power, fail current faction quests, ???)
[] [LC] Allow taxes be paid in food, settle more land to compensate (Sec Distribute Land + Second Expand Econ, ???)
[] [LC] Foreign competition for precious metals is to blame, restrict trade to avoid loss of specie (Alters trade power, ???)
[] [LC] Coin isn't as needed in urban centers, just distribute food there blindly (+1 Urban Poor power, ???)
[] [LC] Search for more precious metals (Main Survey Lands)
[] [LC] Increase use of lower quality metal to increase the supply of coins (???)
Two of these lean heavily on the availability of food, so Econ can have a direct impact on managing the crisis. Econ also overflows to Wealth, so if we have large surpluses of Econ then we can accept having lower trade power and just overflow via an extra Expand Economy action to generate Wealth. We also have Blame rich hoarders, which leans on our social values and stability. Not that many of our responses were actually about Wealth.
And... just take a look at our action list, and look at how many actions cost Econ. Almost anything you might want to do is made easier if Econ isn't a problem.
We are probably going to want to do a guild main warships action next turn. That way we can fulfill the faction quest (and get a bonus +1 to our naval score), and improve our black sea connection to our western vassals. It'll be painful 3 martial, 5 wealth, and 3 econ.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Gotta see what the mid turn is like and how long our king survives, first.
One of which has already been done, so we're not getting it again, and the econ costs of surveys and and mines aren't immense.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We can't Panem, no, but we can extend the Panem to rural half-exiles. We can also be better prepared to tank Panem if the liquidity crisis causes people to flock to the cities for the Panem.
Mines cost 4, which is plenty. We also have a bunch of actions like Vineyards we might want to do to prop our Wealth up given a trading disruption, and large Econ income would mean not having to spend actions recovering Econ, opening those up for Surveys and whatnot.
Another option is using Mass Levy to directly add our Econ to our Martial and take back the gold mine.
You also aren't addressing paying taxes in food, which becomes far more viable in the presence of a canal and a large excess of food.
Why you can't accept that having excess food makes it easier to manage the combination of an invasion and not having enough money, I really don't understand.
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Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's actually a fourth canal, which requires explosives and/or a willingness to kill tens of thousands digging through a shitton of rock. The lowlands damn canal is either to make a fork in the great river going further east towards txollas main area, or it's to make the cataracts section of the great river passableThere's one single Canal that's worth doing from our position, it has been under discussion for weeks, and we have no canonical name for it. It requires the Dam to do and is a large part of why the Dam is so good.
I believe it's the black arrow here:
.... augh.
I think you're vastly underestimating how much econ that would cost.
Like, by multiple orders of magnitude.
We won't be able to afford that with the dam, canal, rice from the Harmurri, and seed drills as a bonus.
- Location
- United States
I mean, we already feed Half Exiles anyways, since we don't let them starve.
Giving them free food would be pointless because we wouldn't let them work in most jobs anyways, by way of their "Spiritual Impurity"
I'm not seeing what Panem would do here.
- Location
- Austria
Not really. It would just be pointless, as rural farmers by definition feed themselves. They are self-Panem because, well, farmers.
Fruits and veggies are more important than raw calories at this point.
I assumed the intent would be to change that.
Anyway. Not a productive line of discussion either way.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If half the people in cities are Urban Poor, then we feed 50000-100000 with 2 Econ each turn. So, if a generous 20% of our 5000000 people are half-exiles, then we could feed them with 40 Econ a turn.
How you think it could cost 100 or 1000 or, apparently, 40000 Econ if you took my actual estimate here and raised it by 3 orders of magnitude, I would love to hear you explain.
They don't in a liquidity crisis where they can't sell their food to buy tools to continue farming.
Not all of them of course, but 5% is plenty bad.
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Except, unlike the cities, the logistics of getting that food to the half-exiles is significantly more complicated.
And significantly more vulnerable to corruption, 'cause the half-exiles aren't going to get to make a week+ journey to the local governor and get their cases heard.
And 40 Econ a turn is already well past what we're capable of producing. So.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
None of which explains your multiple orders of magnitude.
40 Econ is 7 Secondaries of Expand Economy. We wouldn't like to, but we could do that right now on Balanced Policy.
You're also ignoring the effects of the Canal, which I mentioned as prerequisite to this.
The corruption is helped by Legitimacy and Stability, and would be helped further by the Roads and Governor's Palaces I've already advocated that we build. It's also helped by rivals being able to use the public flouting of a law to usurp a Yeoman's position.
One logistically easier way this policy might manifest, though, is in providing quality food to all mine workers and artisans and shipping out iron tools to the countryside rather than food.
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