Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Oh, yeah. There's a difference between capital Sealing Failures, and the normal kind that happen during research that make talking hedgehogs.
- Location
- Washington, USA
Rather than paper, have it selectively delete that special chakra-receptive ink.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Personal insults against other players aren't acceptable in this thread, parenthetical or otherwise.
- Location
- France
Sorry about that. I didn't actually mean that as an insult ?
But sure, I'll edit that out.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I didn't read it as one either.
- Location
- U.S.
To elaborate on this, for anyone curious:
So, I wanted to figure out the actual explosive power of explosive runes. We know, factually, the size of effect of a full-power rune. It's around 4 zones radius iirc - I don't currently remember the exact value, but I double checked it when I was doing the math. If you're in this zone, you need to pass a check to avoid damage. Outside it, you're fine.
I interpreted this as someone being at no significant risk from the blast wave itself or immediate shrapnel. I chose to ignore the fact that technically explosions can propel dangerous shrapnel for very long distances - we don't need to duck and hide if we're within 200 meters of a explosive tag, so clearly ninja are just too hardcore to care about a pebble hitting their eye at half the speed of sound.
To then get a actual figure for explosive strength, I consulted charts on evacuation distances for IRL explosions. These will tend to the side of caution, but to balance it out I only looked at the 'immediate evacuation needed' range; anything beyond that is merely a risk, and clearly ninja are immune to those. Then its just looking up the size of a Zone in a open field (40 meters or somesuch, I also double checked this when I actually did the math), and then some math.
So, it turns out a full power explosive rune is approximately equivalent to a 250-1000lb bomb.
Now, this might sound like a lot. And if you've only had the equivalent of hand grenades up until that point, it is. However, we've been brainstorming WMD concepts, and 1000lbs of high explosives is peanuts:
- Optimistically, a Implosion Rune scales far better, almost reaching the megaton range of TNT. A.K.A. literally a nuke-equivalent.
- Elemental Mastery is a proven Nuke technique which we can doubtlessly reproduce with a rune, and possibly a seal.
- Derivatives of EM, such as Project Ice Cube, could hold comparable or even greater power.
- Banshee seals are already extremely destructive, and scaling to a rune would massively magnify that. A nuke is very possible due to the exponential nature of the scaling of the effect.
When we fail a Rune infusion they're gonna feel it up in Bear.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Question: I see the "Minatosealing" term being used a bunch and I'm not clear on what it means. Could someone define it for me?
My initial guess was that it was "creating a chakra effect that requires both Sealing and TH", but Kagome's rift-opening seals are regular seals that take inspiration from the bijū chain without actually requiring TH, so I think I'm defining it wrong.
There are several misunderstandings here. Stagnancy rules for reference.
- You always need to unstagnate something every 500 XP, so the frequency of doing that doesn't change.
- If you are stagnant in all domains then you are at a 10% XP rate regardless of how many domains you have. (i.e. you are earning 1 XP instead of 10)
- "A single domain is best" is a very subjective statement. If what you want is to have the quest be "kung fu battle wizards punch each other with fireballs" then yes, having Combat as your only domain is best. If what you want is "ensure Hazō survives to do necromancy etc" then you probably want to reduce the frequency with which you need to have on-level combats. Having multiple domains is the best way to do that.
Fair point. Now that you've pointed it out, we're discussing it over on the QM side.
Noburi isn't great with pegging his sense's numbers in that way. Chakra's tough to quantify.
He's noted that there are lots of outliers in either direction – e.g. fresh genin with chunin-level reserves, and chuunin with fresh-genin reserves (an elite club that Hazou was nearly a part of). Sarutobi and Akimichi tend to have larger than average reserves, as do Motoyoshi and Akimichi. The average Sarutobi chuunin has larger reserves than the average KEI chuunin (but perhaps that isn't surprising, comparing a ninjutsu focused clan with clanless ninja, who historically have focused on easily-trainable physical skills)
Hazou has the IC justification to think of it and try, but he does not know if it will work or not. It's entirely possible he researches this seal/rune and it has no meaningful effect because Orochimaru was wrong/chakra reacts in an unexpected way Hazou can't sense/something else.
It's worth leveling, despite the existence of Athletics.
(Paperclipped says: ) Oops, my bad. Will re-add the ones that should exist, anything else was a fiction of the previous mapmaker.
That's a mistake, it should say Instantaneous.
Similarly, this should say movable. Thanks for the catch.
HDK and KDK. Neither of them have heard of a chuunin landing a hit on Hidan, but jounin seem to pull it off occasionally.
No.
No
- n/a
- Location
- France
IIRC Kagome's seal-opening gizmo is just pouring a huge pile of chakra into a specific point and hoping it inflates the seal. I don't think it really creates and moves a chakra construct. Indeed, that's why we need a Biju's worth of chakra - the first idea was "make a precise shakra shape, poke it through the rift scar and use it to widen the rift" but paper sealing can't seem to do that.
Meanwhile, all our examples of seals which create and precisely shapes/controls chakra constructs are the "incomprehensible" Minatoseals, which seem to combine TH and Sealing. Indeed, the chain starts with normal paper seals and then goes straight into Minatoseals, which suggests that going any further than the basic effect requires Minatosealing.
Therefore we think that any effect which can catch and move the rift scar will be a Minatoseal. I'm not sure what form it will take, but here is a guess : a hook that opens the rift scar, then moves the rift around by widening/closing it around the movement of the seal.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's referring to the discipline of combining TH and Sealing, but confusingly also to Minato's seal chain (and possibly seals he made in general)
We should probably settle on an alternative like "Sealhacking" or "Techsealing" or something... or just call it whatever we want like "Spellcasting" lol
Rihaku
The Internet
In the scenario where Hazou goes missing naturally, given their present relationship would missing!Hazou still correspond with Orochimaru (via dead-drop or Seventh Path)?
Seems likely, especially if he can coordinate it via Cannai while in Dog Territory, since that would vastly lower the risks of contact pathogens or other effects on the papers being traded. The risk of Orochimaru's independent Bio-Singularity may be low, but it definitely doesn't feel like zero. What he lacks in creativity, he can easily make up for in sheer accumulated lore and research directions. Continuing to influence him towards the good is our best and primary hedge against that.
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I do think Hazou should account for the plausible aftershocks of killing Sasori, if he does succeed. Say Sasori keels over suddenly due to Terminal Chakra Absence or 2,000 rads of gamma... who has the means, motive and opportunity to assassinate him? Hazou would be one of the top suspects:
1) Superweapons designer and high sealmaster
2) Knows about the Rift and that Sasori is working on it
3) Is currenty "missing"
If this causes Itachi to 100% monofocus on bringing down Hazou, calling in all his favors with the Crows, Dragonwar favors with other clans, expending all his personal and esoteric resources on the matter...
1) It's possible that Leaf itself will burn regardless of how much Naruto tries to distance them from us, especially if people Hazou cares about still live there in any capacity.
2) Alternatively he could show up to "assist" Leaf in finding their traitor missing-nin (the irony), thus force Naruto to actually devote all necessary resources to locating Hazou - Inuzuka and Hyuuga jounins, all loyal Summoners with their Summon clans, Ino, etc.
Of course Itachi wouldn't suspect Hazou alone, there would be other leads and other parties very interested in killing Sasori for any number of reasons, but - especially if Sasori dies near the 6-7 month mark as he's close to finishing the Rift - there's no way Hazou won't be very high up on the list.
A wide-area Chakra depletion rune is probably Hazou's best bet for the lethal weapon, then. Kills Sasori, damages and might kill Konan, exploits Itachi's weakness. We can't assume Itachi will never find Hazou given Itachi's access to esoteric techniques. I think we may in fact have to ambush him ourselves, ideally even before killing Sasori. Once Itachi is on alert from Sasori's death, successful ambush becomes far less likely (he has no known static location and is a bird Clan Summoner, friends with an aquatic Summoner) and we really will need antimatter chakra-seeking swarm runes to reliably down him.
We should bite the bullet: if we're going to turn Akatsuki hostile, we need to be rid of their most problematic members in one stroke. Killing Sasori is probably achievable; surviving the fallout may be difficult even with Orochimaru-tier defenses. Never deal an enemy a small injury. Even a vengeful Deidara can level cities overnight.
Seems likely, especially if he can coordinate it via Cannai while in Dog Territory, since that would vastly lower the risks of contact pathogens or other effects on the papers being traded. The risk of Orochimaru's independent Bio-Singularity may be low, but it definitely doesn't feel like zero. What he lacks in creativity, he can easily make up for in sheer accumulated lore and research directions. Continuing to influence him towards the good is our best and primary hedge against that.
---
I do think Hazou should account for the plausible aftershocks of killing Sasori, if he does succeed. Say Sasori keels over suddenly due to Terminal Chakra Absence or 2,000 rads of gamma... who has the means, motive and opportunity to assassinate him? Hazou would be one of the top suspects:
1) Superweapons designer and high sealmaster
2) Knows about the Rift and that Sasori is working on it
3) Is currenty "missing"
If this causes Itachi to 100% monofocus on bringing down Hazou, calling in all his favors with the Crows, Dragonwar favors with other clans, expending all his personal and esoteric resources on the matter...
1) It's possible that Leaf itself will burn regardless of how much Naruto tries to distance them from us, especially if people Hazou cares about still live there in any capacity.
2) Alternatively he could show up to "assist" Leaf in finding their traitor missing-nin (the irony), thus force Naruto to actually devote all necessary resources to locating Hazou - Inuzuka and Hyuuga jounins, all loyal Summoners with their Summon clans, Ino, etc.
Of course Itachi wouldn't suspect Hazou alone, there would be other leads and other parties very interested in killing Sasori for any number of reasons, but - especially if Sasori dies near the 6-7 month mark as he's close to finishing the Rift - there's no way Hazou won't be very high up on the list.
A wide-area Chakra depletion rune is probably Hazou's best bet for the lethal weapon, then. Kills Sasori, damages and might kill Konan, exploits Itachi's weakness. We can't assume Itachi will never find Hazou given Itachi's access to esoteric techniques. I think we may in fact have to ambush him ourselves, ideally even before killing Sasori. Once Itachi is on alert from Sasori's death, successful ambush becomes far less likely (he has no known static location and is a bird Clan Summoner, friends with an aquatic Summoner) and we really will need antimatter chakra-seeking swarm runes to reliably down him.
We should bite the bullet: if we're going to turn Akatsuki hostile, we need to be rid of their most problematic members in one stroke. Killing Sasori is probably achievable; surviving the fallout may be difficult even with Orochimaru-tier defenses. Never deal an enemy a small injury. Even a vengeful Deidara can level cities overnight.
- Location
- United States
That is how I use it.
Some people also use it to refer to the tailed beast seal chain, which is why I've been pushing for people to refer to that as "bijū seals" or JS instead of MS.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Sort of? He's planning to make a chakra construct inside the rift that will serve as a stopper, then pour in a whole bunch of chakra. Yes, he's planning to use a seal from the bijū chain but that's more because he's got the design right there. HDK of any reason that paper sealing couldn't do it. (Which is not the same as knowing that it could.)
Chapter 576:
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Thanks ^.^
Thanks very much for following up!
And yeah, "Minatosealing"/MS as a term has gotten a bit bloated, Shrooms/Bomb are correct there, my bad.
- Location
- United States
No worries!
Let's just call them Jinchūriki Seals (JS for short) going forward and keep the MS designation for minatosealing.
That is the actual name for them, after all.
Oh no.
We're gonna get a social domain just in time to go missing and avoid all social contact.
I guess Hazou+Kei will need to really focus on Shmoozeing with potential summons?
And getting 3 domains for Hazou still leaves him limited by Kei/Noburi needing combat unstagnates every other barrier.
I went for leadership because even if we go missing*, Hazo'll still be leading Team Uplift, addressing Yuno's emotional issues, and dealing with Summoning politics. It shouldn't be much of a change from what we'd already have had to do to arrange for doing a challenging leadership thing every 1,500 XP.
*very likely and possibly inevitable but things going better than expected has delayed the timeline a bit and there's nonzero chance we'll figure out a brilliant third solution
Chapter 6β: The Shadow of Mutiny
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Chapter 6β: The Shadow of Mutiny
"It's time you spilled the beans, Captain Hazō."
Hazō had never been under any illusions that Mari's "romantic moonlit stroll, just the two of us" was anything of the sort, and even if he had, the hint of danger in her voice would have put paid to them.
"What do you mean, Inoue?" he asked as his mind urgently flicked through the possibilities like pages in a tome of horrors.
"You promised me a purpose beyond mere survival," Mari said. "I can only assume that's what those games with the Liberator were about, because coming to a perfect hiding place like Iron and then blowing it by sending missing-nin who know our faces to scatter all over the world makes no earthly sense. Now I'm guessing your master plan is to found some kind of missing-nin haven in Neck to use as leverage against the Elemental Nations, but if that's the case, then your beans are half-baked. Assuming they both make it, Shikigami and the Liberator are going to butt heads like bucks in rutting season, and the survivor of that contest–or, Sage forbid, a diumvirate–is going to have no incentive whatsoever to hand over the reins to you just because you did them a favour. Life debts mean squat when real power is on the line."
The confrontation had been inevitable. There was only so long a smooth-talking genin could string along the veteran jōnin who should by every right have been team leader (at least until she decided she wanted him in the job). Really, he was lucky she'd been willing to humour him this long.
"No," he said. "I'm not trying to be Shikigami-sensei MK2. That would be pathetically unambitious."
Mari snorted. "I can see why you've got me on manipulation duty if that's the level of subtlety and tact you're capable of when your leadership is on the line."
Yikes.
Also duh. Shikigami-sensei may have been the mastermind behind Hidden Swamp, but Mari had originally signed up to his project in full sincerity. Of course, the whole thing had been suicidal from the start (going missing from Mist had been bad enough, but trying to set up in Fire had sealed their fate), but considering that Mari wouldn't be ready to apologise even years later, it was unrealistic to expect her to casually reflect on her mistakes now.
"So if you're not after the tiny throne awaiting the winner in Neck, what did I waltz into that fortress full of crazy cultists for? Are we an all-purpose missing-nin rescue squad now? That's at least a better reason for recruiting Ishihara than the obvious, but it's also reckless and insane and not something I'm interested in being part of."
"Closer," Hazō said, "but you're still thinking way too small. Way, way too small."
"Oh, so Ishihara is just here as a sex toy?" Inoue asked with a smirk. "Out of a rich selection of missing-nin of every rank and specialisation, you, the boy with the amazing powers of recruitment, go for a taijutsu genin with no special skills and her own set of enemies to add to ours. But she's a pretty older girl who's convinced you're a straight upgrade on her lost crush and goes around calling you sensei. Hazō, I've been a horny teen and done things that would blow your mind to even know are possible, but here and now, when every decision determines whether we live or die, you cannot afford to be thinking with your minnow."
Hazō blushed for multiple reasons.
"She is a sweet girl," Mari admitted. "Assuming she can pull her weight, it wouldn't be the worst thing for morale to keep her around. But I'm serious, Captain. If you can't keep your sloop in the harbour, there are places we can drop by in any decently-sized town. Better to spend a few ryō now and again than get us all killed because you're distracted."
As Hazō stammered incoherently, his mind randomly flashed to a different embarrassing Mari sex conversation, and it happened to save him. At this point in time, alpha Mari had still thought he needed the Talk (or at least pretended well enough to convince him and Kei). In all likelihood, she wasn't actually telling the thirteen-year-old to visit a brothel because she thought he couldn't control himself. She was… She was…
She was trying to mortally embarrass him because it would leave him off-guard and easy to pump for the information she wanted (and also because she was the kind of sadist who'd do it just for fun). She knew he was good enough to manipulate her, though not that it had taken weeks of planning and preparation, and she was no more willing to fight on an even playing field than anyone who made it to jōnin.
(As an aside, her strategy was working way better than it should have. He really hoped that transmigrating to a less mature brain hadn't reset his character development.)
Hazō chose his words carefully.
"Thank you for your concern, Inoue, but nothing like that is happening, as you well know."
"Please," Mari interrupted. "I've seen the weird way she looks at you when she thinks you're not looking, and more importantly, I've seen the weird way you look at her when you think she's not looking. I might not have a read on what's going on between the two of you, but it sure as hell is going on."
"Be that as it may," Hazō said through gritted teeth as he wrestled with panic at being caught red-handed by the last person he could tell the truth about him and Akane (not that he was in any hurry to break it to Kei or Noburi either). "Inoue, my plans for the team are extensive and realistic, and after this next mission, I promise we will all discuss them together. When that happens, I'm confident you'll understand why I've been holding back all this time."
Of course, understanding and acceptance weren't the same thing. There was no nice way to say, "I've been waiting for you to become less evil" (though maybe there was a more tactful one), and if Mari took enough offence and changed her mind about trusting him to help with her redemption…
"'I'll tell you after your next mission'," Mari said. "That's the kiss of death, the line you feed people when you're counting on them to never come back. I've delivered it myself. Worst case, at least it buys you time to come up with a good lie."
Hazō was starting to realise he wasn't going to win this battle. Not against Mari, who'd been extracting information from experienced secret-keepers while he was still learning his way around a kunai.
But then, this wasn't how one fought social specs. Ami had forced him to learn that much.
"Is it a deal-breaker?" Hazō asked simply. "Is not getting the answer for another few days the thing that's going to make you leave the team?"
Mari gave him a piercing look, colder and sharper than the Yuki Clan's finest iceblade.
"The last time I lost trust in my leader and left," she said, "I took everything I wanted with me."
Hazō couldn't look away. Hazō couldn't move.
Then Mari smiled. Lightly, with just enough warmth to thaw Hazō's heart and get the blood moving in his veins again.
"So, Captain Hazō, what hive of scum and villainy are you sending me into this time?"
"Actually," Hazō said, engaging the Iron Nerve to keep his body relaxed and steady while his mind caught up, "this time round, you're relegated to support."
Then, choosing his phrasing in the tiniest possible assertion of dominance, the tiniest possible reminder that they were doing things his way, he added, "I'm still counting on you, because unless the whole party acts in perfect coordination, there's a non-zero chance of a TPK. But before we even get that far, I'm going to have to solo the boss."
Mari, not yet introduced to gaming jargon by Akane, gave a puzzled frown. Then, predictably, she decided she didn't care enough to ask.
"What's our objective?"
Hazō cast his gaze south, to the forbidding depths of a forest far more lethal to unwelcome intruders than a dozen Swamps of Death.
"We're going to tame the Black Hunter."
- Location
- United States
Is the thought of being the one to write the meeting next chapter really that scary?
Inbefore Kagome still has all of his memories from the future due to him being a weird multiversal amalgamation of bunch of different versions of the same person.
Would probably end up majorly shooting the mystique Hazou has build up in the foot.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
Not this time, no
Being head of a voting clan in Leaf changes your priorities...
Oh Sage, Mist idioms
Oh Sage Mist idioms
Mos Eisley?
What a nerd <3
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE yes yes yes yes yes