I guess I'd just expect Kei to have said something when asking him for training advice if that was the case.
I have no problem believing that the Nara clan misleads other nations and is relatively more relaxed at home with the other Clans of Leaf.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
I have no problem believing that the Nara clan misleads other nations and is relatively more relaxed at home with the other Clans of Leaf.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Can we get a ruling on this? It matters for making plans this cycle.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Mmm, I disagree. As @Left-Hand Mutant pointed out, these things clearly have combat skills that Hazou doesn't, and I suspect the jutsu they use are also real (as in, if we got Sasuke over here, he'd be able to download e. g. Daizen's lightning jutsu, and then use it himself). So they're not just pulled from Hazou's memory.
And there's no reason to expect that, either. Sealing failures are not capability-limited, they're conceptual and impact-limited. It doesn't matter if the failure has to create information ex nihilo or simulate the world's causality backwards in order to fetch information that already dissolved into high-entropy noise, etc. — my model says that sealing failures have basically unlimited budget for this sort of stuff.
I think your analysis is building off a sort of "low-capability prior" where you assign more probability to easy-to-implement mechanisms consistent with the observations (and it's easier to generate ghosts by pulling from Hazou's memory than by running the world backwards and copying their real selves). But I think the better prior on capabilities to use is a uniform one.
(Which, by the way, is also why I agree that a Dragon manifestation is a legitimate concern. If it were an ordinary seal effect or something, I'd say it's probably upper-bounded on power such that it can't create a legendary Sage-created monster. But it's a sealing failure effect, and the failure that generated it may well have given it "budget: yes" as long as it's doing what it's conceptually supposed to (creating ghosts of dead enemies).)
Which is not to say I expect them to be sapient: I expect they just flat-out don't have the cognitive algorithms for anything but combat. But I suppose it's possible that they're real people that the sealing failure effect just instantiates in a bloodlusted state, and that it's theoretically possible to talk one down.
I'd vote for trying that, in fact, with e. g. some weak genin who's no threat to us.
(Ohh, or if the failure doesn't target only Hazou, maybe we can indeed drag Sasuke over here to farm jutsu? Invite people who'd killed powerful enemies, set up some S-class exfiltration system, wait for ghosts to appear, provoke them, download high-tier enemy jutsu, exfil. Ohh, and if it does only target Hazou, would it work if Hazou were genjutsu'd into believing he'd witnessed e. g. Minato dying, allowing Sasuke to download FGT? This is ripe for major scientific breakthroughs!)
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If she wasn't supposed to use the jutsu in potential life and death scenarios while surrounded by family in a heavily OPSEC environment with no possibility of non-allied observations of her abilities then why did she even learn it/why was it taught to her?
She would certainly understand the long game of pretending there's a bloodline Shadow Element and not want to undermine that in such an obvious manner.
- Location
- Italy
Ah, i forgot the beauty of the world trying to hit us with a bad situation and us going "You just gave me the chance to weaponize it".
If the ghost re-appear, i would vote to do so even if they are only Hazou's ghost, Daizen's jutsu is, after all, pretty good, share it with the rest of Leaf.
- Location
- Yes.
They have to be aligned precisely together to work properly and while that's not a significant amount of time it's also not trivial. I added in Kei's Kagome-present Earth Domes, though; that's something she apparently can do.
My imagining of the cave system is that it won't necessarily be large enough for aerial combat, at least in the tunnels. The larger cavern it could be more useful, but I have gotten the impression we're headed back into the more cramped tunnels, where such effective evasion would be less effective. And since we just dropped several dozen feet we'd have to go back up to set up traps in this cavern...it's a lot of work. Same with Substitution targets.
FaintlySorcerous has expressed interest in forking my plan accordingly; I would just vote for that plan once it comes up. Or fork it yourselves, either/or.
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Apologies, I wasn't clear. Please keep doing what you are currently doing faflec.
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- Italy
No, i mean once the Goo Bombs go off, the Goo will be on the ground, then it's just a matter of activating skywalker and walking 1cm in the air. So Goo bombs won't be problematic for us....
In fact, can't we do that in general? If the shades have problems moving in the Goo, we can activate the Goo before hand and then just use Skywalkers to fight. Still, one thing at a time.
For "go back", i don't mean create traps in the back, i literally mean "Launch Goo Bombs in front and behind us while we advance until we reach Yuma".
Finally, more cramped tunnels helps us, because the enemies will have more difficulty dodging the Goo Bombs.
EDIT: Unless we can only see in our Zone, if we can see only 1 zone in front/back of us, they Goo Bombs can be useful, otherwise the friendly fire makes them useless.
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- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Asking Questions and Kicking Ass
Word count: <299
Word count: <299
- Discuss everything with the team.
- Tactics:
- We're not splitting up: it risks attacks on either weakened group.
- We're not abandoning Yuma - we're Goketsu.
- Kei:
- Ranged Earth Domes and electrocution seals might work.
- Pangolin's Reach to keep enemies off-balance?
- Would Nara jutsu be worth trying work? Don't press for details; confirm OPSEC requirements with a positive answer.
- Noburi:
- Do you need chakra? Take ours.
- Yuno:
- You're killing it. Keep it up.
- Shades:
- Has everyone been seeing people Hazo killed?
- We haven't seen: Joutarou, Yami, Arikada's bodyguards, Minami Nikko, or the Squirrel-nin. Brief everyone on their skills, appearances, etc.
- Hazo will leave/reverse Summon if Seventh Path enemies appear: he can't risk a Dragon shade.
- If more appear, try yelling at them and see if they react. Are they sentient or self-aware? We want to get Yuma and leave.
- Don't offer information and provide some lies to people who weren't there to assess whether they actually have knowledge or just act scary.
- If Hazou (or Kei) think they can't kill shades, they apply Maneuvers to support the others.
- Has everyone been seeing people Hazo killed?
- Yuma:
- Yuno/Noburi: how long does Yuma have left based on blood loss? Team: should we wait for Mari and Haru to arrive?
- When we find Yuma, approach with caution - he could be confused or a shade in disguise.
- Tunneling Excavate straight up and Skywalk out. Set off signals (earbusters etc.) to call off the search.
- Execute the plan.
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Proposed answer waiting in QM chat for signoff by another QM. Note that @Velorien has a lot going on and @Paperclipped is currently hiking through the hills of someplace that looks a lot like a movie set for Rohan or maybe a William Wallace battle so both of them may be slow about getting to it.
Ah, yes. "Hey, can we use genjutsu to trick reality into giving us a free powerup", my old friend. How I loathe thee, grumble, grumble, DYK.
From ch614, part 2:
EDIT: Upon re-reading, this is ambiguous. My interpretation of it is that you can only see within your zone, but @Velorien and/or @Paperclipped may disagree.
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This ninja'd in as I was posting the above. I'm double posting instead of editing in order to ensure a ping goes out.
They will not fit in the tunnels, so unless Yūma is actually in the cave with you (unlikely) they aren't going to be able to follow along unless you want them to actually mine through the stone.
@Velorien might be smarter than I am, but I find this a bit confusing. I think what you're saying is:
- Ask Noburi and Yuno how long they think Yūma has based on blood loss
- Ask Noburi and Yuno whether there is time to wait for Mari and Haru
- Approach Yūma with caution - he could be confused or a shade in disguise.
- As soon as we find him, Tunneling Excavation up and then skywalk out
- Use Earbusters to signal Mari and Haru to not follow us into the caverns
Since voting closes tomorrow morning, should we just run with this as the default assumption unless otherwise stated?
- Location
- United States
@eaglejarl quick PONWOG for you about a future build idea.
Let's say Hazō uses an earth ninjutsu to launch an artillery rune into an enemy camp. For simplicity's sake, let's say that (1) no one notices the rune until it goes off, and (2) the rune's effect has a gigantic AOE and easily covers multiple zones.
Would you model this as:
Let's say Hazō uses an earth ninjutsu to launch an artillery rune into an enemy camp. For simplicity's sake, let's say that (1) no one notices the rune until it goes off, and (2) the rune's effect has a gigantic AOE and easily covers multiple zones.
Would you model this as:
- Can each enemy ninja move to a zone outside the AOE (Sprinting, going underground, etc.) to dodge the effect?
- Can each enemy ninja pass a DC XX Athletics saving throw to dodge the effect?
- Can each enemy ninja clear a DC XX Athletics check with enough excess to also Sprint to an unaffected zone?
EXAMPLE:
An enemy jōnin steps on a pressure plate that triggers an AOE 1 Goo Rune made by Hazō. The area around her is completely clear.
An enemy jōnin steps on a pressure plate that triggers an AOE 1 Goo Rune made by Hazō. The area around her is completely clear.
Would rolling Athletics 60 be enough to avoid the Goo or would she need to roll Athletics 70?
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
[х] Ask Mari to use you as experiment fodder for developing combat genjutsu
More TYS and doubles as Resolve training and solves Mari's problem with ethically-sourced targets and Mari's SCs + Hazou's SCs means she can do it at scale for massive parallelism in development and Hazou being a torture-resistance specialist makes him perfect for the role!
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- USA
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This is now confirmed: at this depth you can only see within your zone. When you go up a bit you'll be able to see adjacent zones and if you get back to near the surface you'll be able to see normally.
You're probably about 500m down. Hazō has no reason to think that Tunneling Excavation won't work on the walls of this cavern, although he doesn't know if the area was created by the seal failure or pre-existing and simply exposed by it. If it was created by the seal failure then all bets are off.
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- Yes.
And removed the relevant section.
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- USA
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PSA: Chapter 614, part 2 has been altered to include the combat rolls.
The handsome and generous Paper took the time to clean up all the combat rolls to be suitable for posting. I've edited them into the chapter.
The handsome and generous Paper took the time to clean up all the combat rolls to be suitable for posting. I've edited them into the chapter.
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Instead of giving a ponwog here, I choose to respond "TIAS".
- Location
- United States
vibrates excitedly
Thank you @Paperclipped!
EDIT:
Mind confirming that Kei's summons had PCJ up?
EDIT 2:
Ah, yeah. Not sure about Combat 3 but that would have probably made a big difference in Combat 1, since all the Pangolins would have had Armour:2 (Ablative) and would have withstood gentle ghost pokes without popping while the armour held.
Maybe you could declare that the miasma interferes with PCJ somehow? It is sealing failure weirdness after all.
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- floating away
So, after reading the combat rolls, only Noburi was able to do anything more than a stress at a time. Yuno's axe did nothing, same with Kei.
With that knowledge, it seems to me that Hazo should summon Canun (or any small ranged ninjutsu spec summon) and that Hazo, Kei, and Yuno should focus on defending them. (I'd suggest Cantelope and their focus blast, but they got mind blasted last time and might not be happy to be summoned into another weird cave...) As long as it's Yuno/Kei/Hazo taking the hits, the pup won't pop.
They should experiment with Raiton seals + goo bombs, but those aren't guaranteed to do anything.
With that knowledge, it seems to me that Hazo should summon Canun (or any small ranged ninjutsu spec summon) and that Hazo, Kei, and Yuno should focus on defending them. (I'd suggest Cantelope and their focus blast, but they got mind blasted last time and might not be happy to be summoned into another weird cave...) As long as it's Yuno/Kei/Hazo taking the hits, the pup won't pop.
They should experiment with Raiton seals + goo bombs, but those aren't guaranteed to do anything.
The ghosts damage ignored PCJ, being Energy:Fire
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- United States
Actually, PCJ is specified to act "as Ablative Armor:2," unlike our physical armor jutsu like Ghost Scales that specifically act as "Ablative Physical Armor equal to the Effect."
We survived and it's not worth rerolling, so we should probably just declare that the Miasma destroyed everyone's PCJ. It would make total sense for this oppressive aura to slowly damage (and then destroy) a weak ablative armor effect like PCJ. It would also explain its absence in Combat 3!
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da rules said:
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
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- United States
Can we summon Pandojuru in cramped conditions just to cast Defend the Log?